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Fwd: RE: [gfsg] Information for next weeks GFSG policy call (resend)
by Craig Lee 28 Oct '05

28 Oct '05

All, This one email contains the basic gist of the discussion thread from the end of last August. The upshot was to have some passionate individual(s) survey and analyze what is needed across these projects. Good idea but easier said than done! --Craig >Delivered-To: grdfm-gfsg-outgoing(a)mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov >X-Original-To: grdfm-gfsg(a)mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov >Delivered-To: grdfm-gfsg(a)mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov >From: "Alan Blatecky" <blatecky(a)unc.edu> >To: "'Craig Lee'" <craig(a)rush.aero.org>, > "'Catlett Charlie'" <catlett(a)mcs.anl.gov> >Cc: "'Linesch, Mark'" <mark.linesch(a)hp.com>, <gfsg(a)ggf.org> >Subject: RE: [gfsg] Information for next weeks GFSG policy call (resend) >Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 07:59:30 -0400 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 >Importance: Normal >X-Scanned-By: ITS Messaging Systems (outgoing) on 152.2.1.139 >X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at >mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov >Sender: owner-gfsg(a)ggf.org >X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at >mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by rushe.aero.org id >j81C1FI29142 > >Craig > >Thanks for the clarification on what you meant by survey...it makes much >more sense. I had to smile at your question about being "Boss of the World" >as it is a good way to step outside of the problem and think of different >approaches and solutions. > >Your question of what can GGF do is right on target, especially if GGF is >willing to be more flexible about its mission and what it is willing to >focus on (and or can afford to do). Some of Geoffery Fox's comments and >thoughts on communities come to mind. > >Alan > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-gfsg(a)ggf.org [mailto:owner-gfsg@ggf.org] On Behalf Of Craig Lee >Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:39 AM >To: Alan Blatecky; 'Catlett Charlie' >Cc: 'Linesch, Mark'; gfsg(a)ggf.org >Subject: RE: [gfsg] Information for next weeks GFSG policy call (resend) > > >Alan & Charlie, > >By "survey" I did not mean creating a survey form and getting it filled out >by epsilon number of people. >I meant having some passionate individual(s) scrutinize all of these >projects and the principle decision-makers >involved, and make effective recommendations for convergence. Clearly this >should be done sooner than later. > >I'm sure there have been many, many meetings between these projects that >have already failed to produce >any kind of agreement on many issues. But is this a completely >un-manageable process? Is there anything >that can be done to effectively promote convergence? What can be done >sooner than later? > >If you were Boss of the World, what would that be? > >Assuming there are hard problems that can't be solved by dictate, is there >anything GGF could do >to help avoid these problems going forward? Can we codify a >strategy? Could we say anything more >substantial than just "Don't change protocols every six months", or more >concrete than just "Plan for change"? > >Short of locking everybody in a room and not letting anybody out until >agreements have been reached, >what can we do? What kind of combined "summit meeting" could hopefully >make progress? How can >GGF go from generalities to specifics that are genuinely effective? > >--Craig > > >At 12:56 PM 8/31/2005, Alan Blatecky wrote: > >I have to second Charlie's comments. I also doubt that a survey will be > >able to accurately capture the "differences" between projects and/or areas > >of divergence, as the answers will depend on who filled out the survey > >(different participants in the same grid will have different answers). > > > >Alan > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Catlett Charlie [mailto:catlett@mcs.anl.gov] > >Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 3:47 PM > >To: Craig Lee > >Cc: Catlett Charlie; Linesch, Mark; Alan Blatecky; gfsg(a)ggf.org; Gregory > >Newby > >Subject: Re: [gfsg] Information for next weeks GFSG policy call (resend) > > > >Craig- > > > >You are a good straight man- i.e. your response is a good > >illustration of the architect/builder disconnect I mentioned before. > > > >My builders can't wait for a survey or a paper that realistically > >won't come out for a year. They are making decisions today with real > >operational systems and real users waiting for things. > > > >As for meetings, I would bet there have been a dozen substantive > >meetings between peer grid projects just like the one Satoshi > >described between NAREGI and EGEE (I can tell you I've been involved > >in six of them!). That's crazy, and my suggestion is that those > >folks who are talking should combine the discussions and have FEWER > >meetings, not additional meetings. > > > >CeC > > > >On Aug 31, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Craig Lee wrote: > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > > Besides just organizing more meetings (and potentially just more > > > hot air), what jumps > > > out at me is the need for a survey project and perhaps a survey > > > article that specifcally > > > catalogues the design decisions made by all the major grid projects > > > mentioned in > > > this thread (and others), in each of the major technical areas, and > > > what drove these > > > decisions. Fox's comment that each project feels that it has > > > captured the best possible > > > software stack may, in fact, be true _in the context of each > > > project's perceived goals > > > and constraints_. Different projects may be driven to different > > > conclusions by competing > > > technical and project management issues and also _risk tolerance_. > > > (As a simple example, > > > the larger a project is, the more risk adverse it may become since > > > having to upgrade/maintain > > > software at all sites may become excessively difficult.) > > > > > > We may all have a gut feeling for what is causing things to diverge > > > (e.g., project schedule > > > pressure -- I've gotta have something that works _now_ to support > > > $100M of development > > > in the application domain) but making a systematic study of the > > > problem could help > > > with concrete recommendations and courses of action to promote > > > convergence. This > > > could be the deliverable of a workshop series. > > > > > > Naregi, EGEE, TeraGrid, OMII, EGEE, eScience, OSG, DataSynapse, United > > > Devices, Platform, Sun > > > > > > Technical areas: > > > Security model > > > Information model > > > Job description model > > > Workflow management model > > > Auditing/Accounting > > > > > > Another matrix... > > > > > > --Craig > > > > > > At 09:25 AM 8/30/2005, Linesch, Mark wrote: > > >

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updated community info 'guide'
by Julie Wulf-Knoerzer 25 Oct '05

25 Oct '05

+++++++++++++++++++ Julie Wulf-Knoerzer Manager of Community Development Global Grid Forum wulf(a)ggf.org ph. 630/252-7163 fax 630/252-4466

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Community Council Telecon Tomorrow
by Julie Wulf-Knoerzer 25 Oct '05

25 Oct '05

Dear all, Just a reminder that we will be holding a Community Council telecon tomorrow at 10:00a Central time (NO policy call) with the following dial-in: US: 1-888-455-3044 Intl: +1-210-839-8611 Pass Code: 95465. Agenda items include: *SC (poll of community attendees), *Status/review of area mission, objectives, projects, (see attached Community Council info doc and project list for assignment), *GGF16 update (community program suggestions - vendor BoF, pharma BoF, key dates, actions). Thank you to those that drafted your area descriptions, objectives and projects per last week's request - I look forward to receiving more. Regards, Julie +++++++++++++++++++ Julie Wulf-Knoerzer Manager of Community Development Global Grid Forum wulf(a)ggf.org ph. 630/252-7163 fax 630/252-4466

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Re: [CCGT] Re: [cads] community meeting continuation
by Victor Alessandrini 11 Oct '05

11 Oct '05

Dear Robert, I apologyze, but I am not sure that I will be able to join the teleconf under this very short notice. I have to move appointments. I will try to do my best. Best regards Victor Victor Alessandrini IDRIS - CNRS

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RE: [CCGT] Re: [cads] community meeting continuation
by Fogel, Robert 11 Oct '05

11 Oct '05

For those who did not make the Community face-to-face in Boston last week, attached is some of the material that we reviewed/developed. Agenda for tomorrow/Tues: * Quick review of Community face-to-face material (attachment) * Refine Community Objectives (sent in previous e-mail sent by Julie) * Refine Community Projects that support Community Objectives Robert Fogel GGF Community Vice-Chair Director, Worldwide Grid Strategy and Business Development, Intel Corp 408-765-6404 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccgt(a)ggf.org [mailto:owner-ccgt@ggf.org] On Behalf Of Julie Wulf-Knoerzer Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:50 PM To: ccgt(a)ggf.org; cads(a)ggf.org Subject: [CCGT] Re: [cads] community meeting continuation Thanks for the quick responses - for those of you that are available: Domestic: 888-453-2971 International: 210-234-9563 Passcode: 35351. Talk to you soon, Julie At 10:38 AM 10/10/2005 -0500, Julie Wulf-Knoerzer wrote: >Hi all, >Our regularly scheduled bi-weekly call falls tomorrow, 11-Oct, at >10:00a Central time (GFSG policy call will be 18-Oct at 9:00a central >time). Please let me know if you are available tomorrow at 10:00a >central so that we may continue last week's project/timeline discussion. >Regards, >Julie > > >+++++++++++++++++++ >Julie Wulf-Knoerzer >Manager of Community Development >Global Grid Forum >wulf(a)ggf.org >ph. 630/252-7163 >fax 630/252-4466 > +++++++++++++++++++ Julie Wulf-Knoerzer Manager of Community Development Global Grid Forum wulf(a)ggf.org ph. 630/252-7163 fax 630/252-4466

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community meeting continuation
by Julie Wulf-Knoerzer 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

Hi all, Our regularly scheduled bi-weekly call falls tomorrow, 11-Oct, at 10:00a Central time (GFSG policy call will be 18-Oct at 9:00a central time). Please let me know if you are available tomorrow at 10:00a central so that we may continue last week's project/timeline discussion. Regards, Julie +++++++++++++++++++ Julie Wulf-Knoerzer Manager of Community Development Global Grid Forum wulf(a)ggf.org ph. 630/252-7163 fax 630/252-4466

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Geoffrey Fox Leadership Award
by Julie Wulf-Knoerzer 04 Oct '05

04 Oct '05

Community ADs, Please stop by the GGF table in the sponsor showcase area to sign Geoffrey's GGF Leadership Award. I have the standards AD signatures but did not have an opportunity to get yours during Sunday's f2f (he was around the whole time!). Thanks, Julie +++++++++++++++++++ Julie Wulf-Knoerzer Manager of Community Development Global Grid Forum wulf(a)ggf.org ph. 630/252-7163 fax 630/252-4466

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Community Council Breakout slides
by Julie Wulf-Knoerzer 02 Oct '05

02 Oct '05

+++++++++++++++++++ Julie Wulf-Knoerzer Manager of Community Development Global Grid Forum wulf(a)ggf.org ph. 630/252-7163 fax 630/252-4466

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Tuesday call cancelled
by Julie Wulf-Knoerzer 16 Sep '05

16 Sep '05

Hi all, Just a quick note to let you know that there will be no Community Council call on Tuesday. Have a good weekend and hope to see you at GridWorld/GGF15. Julie +++++++++++++++++++ Julie Wulf-Knoerzer Manager of Community Development Global Grid Forum wulf(a)ggf.org ph. 630/252-7163 fax 630/252-4466

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Checking the pulse of the Community Council
by Geoffrey Fox 09 Sep '05

09 Sep '05

I sent the enclosed notes on a possible organization of community council But I got no response. I wonder if that meant a) Things are chugging along and organization is not important b) You were so amazed by brilliance of plan that you can't put words to email c) The plan seemed same as before d) You were so amazed by stupidity of plan that you can't put words to email e) You are too busy right now f) ggf emails are on your SPAM filter list ----------------------------------- I welcome comments on these thoughts and suggested reorganization whose main ideas are: A Community Plan designed to support communities rather than just exploiting GGF events Splitting of council roles into an advisory board and area directors as expediters Some of you have seen this in an earlier version and it was received with some interest by Mark Linesch and the new vice chair for the community council Robert Fogel I will share all comments with them to help plan the next steps for GGF -- : : Geoffrey Fox gcf(a)indiana.edu FAX 8128567972 http://www.infomall.org : Phones Cell 812-219-4643 Home 8123239196 Lab 8128567977

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