June 2005 - ogsa-wg - lists.ogf.org

RE: [ogsa-wg] Minor comments on documents
by Treadwell, Jem 22 Jun '05

22 Jun '05

Hiro/Steve/Tom, My comments also embedded... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ogsa-wg(a)ggf.org [mailto:owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org] On > Behalf Of Hiro Kishimoto > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:29 AM > To: Steven Newhouse > Cc: ogsa-wg > Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] Minor comments on documents > > Thanks Steven, > > My comments inline <HK>. > ---- > Hiro Kishimoto > > Steven Newhouse wrote: > > OGSA WSRF Basic Profile 1.0 (v018 June 13th 2005) > > > > Page 1: Status of this memo > > Is there not a WSRF missing from this opening line? > > e.g. '... write normative OGSA services based around the > WSRF set of > > specifications.' > > <HK> > Good catch! Your text works for me. > </HK> JT: I'll leave this one for Tom, as he has the pen again right now. > > > OGSA Roadmap (v010 June 6th 2005) > > > > Section 2, Point 1, Bullet 3: Should these service description > > documents not be 'owned' by the working group developing > the service? > > The text implies to me that the OGSA-WG writes them... > which I don't > > think is the case. > > <HK> > Good point. Let's add something like "domain-expert WG writes > this service description (scenario document) if appropriate." > </HK> JT: Here's my update, in line (I think!) with Hiro's suggestion: * Service Description documents, which are written and maintained by the appropriate domain-expert working groups, describe the services in the area in natural language, listing the interfaces and operations defined by each service. * Scenario documents, also written by domain-expert working groups, demonstrate how these services can implement the use cases, using a combination of natural language and UML. > > Section 2.2: > > Should there not be some statement that OGSA profiles should be > > developed/revised outside the OGSA-WG in theor own WG? > > <HK> > I think they can if their Profile abide by OGSA branding guideline. > </HK> JT: I inserted this text at what is now line 199, *before* the para beginning "Members of the OGSA-WG": OGSA Recommended and Informational Profiles may be developed either by the OGSA-WG or by domain-expert working groups, but it is important to note that they must adhere to GGF's forthcoming OGSA branding guidelines, which are discussed in section 2.3. Let me know if you see any issues with this, as I'll be posting this for final call very soon. Thanks! - Jem

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Minor comments on documents
by Steven Newhouse 22 Jun '05

22 Jun '05

OGSA WSRF Basic Profile 1.0 (v018 June 13th 2005) Page 1: Status of this memo Is there not a WSRF missing from this opening line? e.g. '... write normative OGSA services based around the WSRF set of specifications.' OGSA Roadmap (v010 June 6th 2005) Section 2, Point 1, Bullet 3: Should these service description documents not be 'owned' by the working group developing the service? The text implies to me that the OGSA-WG writes them... which I don't think is the case. Section 2.2: Should there not be some statement that OGSA profiles should be developed/revised outside the OGSA-WG in theor own WG? Cheers, Steven -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Steven Newhouse Tel:+44 (0)2380 598789 Deputy Director, Open Middleware Infrastructure Institute (OMII) Suite 6005, Faraday Building (B21), Highfield Campus, Southampton University, Highfield, Southampton, SO17 1BJ, UK

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Profile definition draft 12 uploaded
by Treadwell, Jem 22 Jun '05

22 Jun '05

Hi, I fixed the table and made some other minor edits, and I've now uploaded Profile Definition v12. It's available at http://tinyurl.com/93mpp. - Jem -----Original Message----- From: owner-ogsa-wg(a)ggf.org [mailto:owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Savva Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 8:51 AM To: 'ogsa-wg' Subject: [ogsa-wg] Profile definition draft 11 uploaded I've uploaded draft 11 of the OGSA Profile Definition. https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-wg/document/draft-ggf-ogsa-pro file-definition/en/11 The changes were described in a previous email by Hiro last week, and also discussed during the Wed. call. (http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2005/06/msg00063.htm l) Draft 11 is basically the same as draft 10-a that was attached to Hiro's email. I made some additional minor revisions and cleanup: accepting old changes and deleting obsolete comments. -- Andreas Savva

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RE: [ogsa-wg] OGSA-MWS-BOF at GGF14 on Tues June 28, noon-1:30
by Subramaniam, Ravi 22 Jun '05

22 Jun '05

Hi Marty, The BOF and the motivations you describe sound like a good idea. It would be great to hear your perspectives especially since you have experience with the described specs (WS-RF/WSN and WS-T, WS-E, WS-Enum). I think this is also a good test for the general policy that OGSA has adopted of admitting different profiles that are consistent with the general architecture. There has been a discussion around "lack of interoperability" with multiple profiles but without visiting the profiles that are compatible with the architecture one cannot decide which is the most appropriate (from one or many of the criteria like implementation easy, expressiveness, composability etc). Prematurely deciding that only one profile is the right way to go may not be beneficial in the long run. Given the way the industry has evolved, there is a process of "natural selection" and the most sophisticated or theoretical best solution has not won out in most cases. I agree with Mark's observations. Theoretically the degrees of freedom in the number of profiles seem infinite but I don't think in reality it will pan out into the more than a few since the "affinity" of these specs to be in a profile would constrain the number. Having said this, it would still make sense to be concrete in your discussion of what would be the primary motivation of the BOF and subsequent WG. Your points in response to Ian's question could be added to the formal description of the intent of the BOF. Thanks for spawning this discussion. Ravi PS: I just read Fred's comments in this thread. I think his points make sense. You may want to state that the need for alternate profiles as a primary assumption (not to be debated) and move on to the salient aspects of what the alternate profiles to be debated in the BOF are. ________________________________ From: owner-ogsa-wg(a)ggf.org [mailto:owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org] On Behalf Of Ian Foster Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 7:43 AM To: Marty Humphrey; 'Ogsa-Wg' Subject: RE: [ogsa-wg] OGSA-MWS-BOF at GGF14 on Tues June 28, noon-1:30 Marty: Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. And Mark puts it nicely: poetically, even (-: Ian. At 10:28 AM 6/21/2005 -0400, Marty Humphrey wrote: Hi Ian et. al., A very good question! ("can you define the goals of the BOF more precisely other than "not WSRF"?) I sent this email in part to hear from the community how "broad" they might like it to be. That is, we're being flexible. If someone wants to talk about one of these specific topics, we will certainly try our best to accommodate. Note that by default I believe the discussions will center around WS-Transfer, WS-Enumeration, WS-Eventing, et. al. I will talk about my team's use of WS-Transfer, WS-Enumeration, and WS-Eventing. I think we're in a very good position to discuss the pros and cons of these specs as compared with WSRF (as our project has implemented/used both). Let me answer the question in a different way. GGF Chair Mark Linesch said recently: "Our approach with the OGSA architecture along with our collaborative work on OGSA profiles is to: (1) describe 'the most traveled paths through the forest' rather than to dictate that there is only one path; and (2) to continue to highlight that multiple, overlapping paths may not be in the interests of the industry over time" (http://news.taborcommunications.com/msgget.jsp?mid=403500&xsl=story.xsl ) Simply, we believe that there has been sufficient "hallway discussions" on BOTH (1) and (2) that it makes good sense to gather people to discuss BOTH of these topics in a realistic and productive way. - Marty Marty Humphrey Assistant Professor Department of Computer Science University of Virginia ________________________________________ From: Ian Foster [mailto:foster@mcs.anl.gov] Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:54 AM To: Marty Humphrey; 'Ogsa-Wg' Cc: 'Marty Humphrey' Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] OGSA-MWS-BOF at GGF14 on Tues June 28, noon-1:30 Marty, Steven: It is of course feasible, in principle, to define many different profiles for OGSA. E.g., one could build one on WS-Transfer and friends, one could build one that uses a different construct than the WS-Addressing EPR to address things, one could define one that uses JINI mechanisms, one could define one that uses CORBA, one could define one that renames all of the current WSRF and WS-Notification calls to be slightly different (oh wait, that's the first in the list (-: ), etc. Given the wide variety of possible alternative profiles, it would be helpful for those like me who are considering attending the BOF to know what more specifically what the goal of this work is going to be. The name doesn't provide any information, other than to imply, perhaps, that the interfaces on which the WSRF profile builds are not in some manner "minimal" and/or "simple." I.e., can you define the goals of the BOF more precisely other than "not WSRF"? Regards -- Ian. At 09:11 AM 6/21/2005 -0400, Marty Humphrey wrote: Folks, There have been a number of informal conversations lately about the feasibility/value/implications of a possible non-WSRF-based profile for OGSA. To bring all interested parties together at the same time, a BOF has been scheduled for Tuesday June 28 noon-1:30 (unfortunately at the same time as the EGA session, but there were no good times available). The agenda is still being finalized, but we expect to broadly discuss the pros/cons of such an effort, and, if the BOF attendees decide that such an effort would be valuable, produce a concrete plan for the formation of a Working Group. Here is the information that Steven Newhouse provided for the GGF organizers: "A BOF meeting to discuss the creation of a WG to define an OGSA Basic Profile that builds upon a minimal set of simple web services. The output of the group would be a document, similar in nature to the OGSA WSRF Basic Profile that would allow OGSA services to be rendered using an alternative set of WS specifications." I hope you can attend this (hopefully) productive and constructive session! -- Marty and Steven Marty Humphrey Assistant Professor Department of Computer Science University of Virginia _______________________________________________________________ Ian Foster www.mcs.anl.gov/~foster Math & Computer Science Div. Dept of Computer Science Argonne National Laboratory The University of Chicago Argonne, IL 60439, U.S.A. Chicago, IL 60637, U.S.A. Tel: 630 252 4619 Fax: 630 252 1997 Globus Alliance, www.globus.org <http://www.globus.org/> _______________________________________________________________ Ian Foster www.mcs.anl.gov/~foster Math & Computer Science Div. Dept of Computer Science Argonne National Laboratory The University of Chicago Argonne, IL 60439, U.S.A. Chicago, IL 60637, U.S.A. Tel: 630 252 4619 Fax: 630 252 1997 Globus Alliance, www.globus.org <http://www.globus.org/>

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No Resource Management teleconference today
by Fred Maciel 21 Jun '05

21 Jun '05

Hi, (I sent this e-mail to the mailing list yesterday but apparently the GGF filters ate it and belched loudly, so here it goes again). Given that both our discussions with OGSA-BES and the broader CIM-GLUE-JSDL comparison didn't progress much since last week, let's postpone the teleconference on Tuesday. This week I'll be organizing the contents of the GGF14 sessions (ours, and the WSDM-related ones). Stay tuned. See you in GGF14, Fred Maciel Hitachi America R&D

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Proposed agenda for June 22nd call
by Hiro Kishimoto 21 Jun '05

21 Jun '05

Hi all, The following is a proposed agenda for OGSA-WG telecon on June 22nd Wednesday from 5pm to 7pm (CDT). If you plan to join GGF14 session by phone, please let me know by Wednesday. We will setup phone bridge only by request. Dial-in numbers for Wednesday: Free: +1-888-452-0308 Intl/Toll: +1-484-644-0505 PIN: 71815 Screen share service will be provided. URL: http://ogsa.glance.net Session key: 0622 See more explanation: http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2004/06/msg00077.html 1) Early discussion (10 min) Note taker assignment Roll call Telecon minutes approval https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-wg/document/minutes-20050613/en/1 https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-wg/document/minutes-20050615/en/1 Agenda bashing 2) GGF14 session preparation (30 min) For each session, confirm who does what OGSA session plan https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-wg/document/GGF14_session_plan/en… 3) Profile definition final review (40 min) Jem will upload the revised version shortly. 4) OGSA basic profile final review (40 min) Tom will upload the revised version shortly. 5) Wrap up (10 min) AOB June 27-30 GGF14 in Chicago ---- Hiro Kishimoto

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CDDLM overview presentation slides
by Hiro Kishimoto 21 Jun '05

21 Jun '05

Hi all, Dejan's slides attached. It was explained at today's call. It is also uploaded to GridForge. https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-wg/document/cddlm-ogsa-intro/en/1 Thanks Dejan for your presentation. -- Hiro Kishimoto

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Roadmap v13 uploaded - Re: Open issues (Re: [ogsa-wg] Roadmap doc v12 uploaded)
by Treadwell, Jem 20 Jun '05

20 Jun '05

Hi, I just uploaded v13, which is the version we'll review tonight. It addresses Hiro's "nitpick" mail, and Dave B's comment. For one or two of Hiro's comments I've highlighted the text in question, but haven't changed it. I haven't addressed any of the comments below - those are for discussion tonight. Also note that in this version some of the spec reference tables are dated June 20th, while some are June 16th. I'll sync them all up for the final submission; the June 20th tables reflect Hiro's comments. I haven't uploaded the spreadsheet, as I've only made a minor change and it's likely that more will come from tonight's call. You can find Roadmap v13 at http://tinyurl.com/78fly. - Jem -----Original Message----- From: Hiro Kishimoto [mailto:hiro.kishimoto@jp.fujitsu.com] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:52 AM To: Treadwell, Jem; Ogsa-Wg Subject: Open issues (Re: [ogsa-wg] Roadmap doc v12 uploaded) Thanks Jem, I've proof read v12 and found several issues. I will send out two emails; real issues and nits. This email contains real issues. (a1) page 9 table 3-6 We should put date for "OGSA information and monitoring architecture 1.0" if possible. (a2) page 14 table 4-10 (a3) page 16 table 4-14 (a4) page 17 table 5-2 Can we add "standard is approaching" mark to "Implemented" and "WS-Addressing" cell? I have no clue. (a5) page 17 table 5-2 "WS-BaseNotification 1.2" should read "WS-BaseNotification 1.3" Thanks, ---- Hiro Kishimoto Treadwell, Jem wrote: > Hi, > > I've now uploaded v12 of the Roadmap document, with various minor > edits and updated specification tables, in line with last Monday's review. > > I've also uploaded the standards spreadsheet, updated with the changes > we agreed on Monday, plus citation data from Tom. It was > difficult/tedious to navigate around all the pages, so I've also added > a new Index page which contains links to all the other pages and some > useful buttons. However, 1) You'll need to enable macros to use the > buttons (though you shouldn't need them unless you're editing), and 2) > I've found that Excel does odd things to the buttons - like resizing > them, changing the font at will, and inverting the shadows. If it > happens to you, don't worry about it :0) > > I think there's still some detail we could add for the various specs, > but I'll leave it as is for now. I promised I'd get this out on > Wednesday, and I have about 30 seconds left. > > The docs are at: http://tinyurl.com/aez86 . > > - Jem > ________________________________ > > Jem Treadwell > Hewlett-Packard Company > 6000 Irwin Road > Mount Laurel, NJ 08054 > Phone: 856-638-6021 > Fax: 856-638-6190 > E-mail: Jem.Treadwell(a)hp.com <mailto:Jem.Treadwell@hp.com> > >

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Teleconference minutes (June 13 & 15)
by Andreas Savva 20 Jun '05

20 Jun '05

Minutes from last week have been uploaded to gridforge. https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-wg/document/minutes-20050613/en/1 https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-wg/document/minutes-20050615/en/1 -- Andreas Savva

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Profile definition draft 11 uploaded
by Andreas Savva 20 Jun '05

20 Jun '05

I've uploaded draft 11 of the OGSA Profile Definition. https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-wg/document/draft-ggf-ogsa-profil… The changes were described in a previous email by Hiro last week, and also discussed during the Wed. call. (http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2005/06/msg00063.html) Draft 11 is basically the same as draft 10-a that was attached to Hiro's email. I made some additional minor revisions and cleanup: accepting old changes and deleting obsolete comments. -- Andreas Savva

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