Fw: Fw: Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing - draft 7
All Latest draft (v7 )of the nils and default document incorporating comments from this week. Please send comments before next WG call. Still having problems with bulleted lists Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 02/07/2010 15:32 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 30/06/2010 13:05 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All Latest draft of the nils and default document incorporating comments from last week. As you will see I have been having problems with bulleted lists in word which are still not correct but I assume I can fix for the spec. Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 30/06/2010 13:01 ----- From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Date: 25/06/2010 16:07 Subject: Fw: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Hi Alan - were you going to take the updates forward, or did you want me to make some changes first? Reviewed Steve's updates to the parsing and unparsing rules. - it might be possible to simplify the nil processing in the rules by having a defintion up front. - 'nil indicator set' need a definition - Discussion about whether 'usNilForDefaults' could be replaced by some way of defining a literal, out of band value for the default. - 'value' used when should be 'output value' - dfdl:emptyValueDelimietrPolicy description should be moved from defaulting section to initiator section. - 'text markup' used in section 14.2 of spec Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 ----- Forwarded by Steve Hanson/UK/IBM on 25/06/2010 16:00 ----- From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 23/06/2010 11:18 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Here's my latest updates. As discussed I have reworked the 'Nils & Defaults on parsing/unparsing' sections. One question was thrown up. On parsing when a required complex element is missing, we add it to the infoset as long as applying default processing to its missing children does not cause an error. You will see I have used the phrase 'Missing element processing is applied to all child elements.' to cover this. But 'Missing element processing' as now spelled out in the same section includes 'nillable and empty string' processing when the child is simple. Does this apply here? [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v5-SMH.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 16/06/2010 14:40 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Hi Alan I've updated the document and added some comments. Still quite a bit to discuss. Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 02/06/2010 11:21 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org I have updated based on last weeks call Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 02/06/2010 11:20 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 25/05/2010 17:27 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All I have added unparsing and corrected some of the existing information in this latest version. I did attempt to write out the dfdl:nilValueDelimiterPolicy and dfdl:emptyValueDelimiterPolicy options in full but it became unreadable hence the 'as controlled by' short cut. Links still don't work Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 25/05/2010 17:22 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 13/05/2010 17:28 Subject: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All Attached is an updated version of the nils and defaults sections of the specification. I have only completed the parsing section so far which you should be able to review while I am on vacation. If someone would like to add the unparsing section that would be great. Note that the cross references are not correct. Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU #### dfdl-nils-defaults v2.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 23 May 2010 by Alan Powell. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg #### dfdl-nils-defaults v3.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 01 June 2010 by Alan Powell. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg #### dfdl-nils-defaults v4.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 08 June 2010 by Steve Hanson. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU #### dfdl-nils-defaults-v4-SMH.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 (Link) on 22 June 2010 by Steve Hanson. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v6.1.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
Hi Alan I started to make comments but decided that it was easier to make changes directly, so that is what I did. Comments that remain are for things that need discussion (there's only a couple). I made a lot of changes including sorting out your bullet numbering but the main changes were: a) The 'If ... Else If' logic had gone badly astray, because of combining the non-initiator and initiator cases. It's not as compact as we thought but still better combined I think. b) "If 'is nil' with the content region as the empty string" - the content region clause is redundant. Your separate definition of 'is nil' combined with being in a 'missing element' branch of the logic, means just saying 'is ni' is sufficient. c) Definition of nil when unparsing - does not need the useNilForDefaults clause - nil and mssing are mutually exclusive when unparsing. The useNilForDefault property comes into play via 'has default'. Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 02/07/2010 15:34 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing - draft 7 Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org All Latest draft (v7 )of the nils and default document incorporating comments from this week. Please send comments before next WG call. Still having problems with bulleted lists Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 02/07/2010 15:32 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 30/06/2010 13:05 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All Latest draft of the nils and default document incorporating comments from last week. As you will see I have been having problems with bulleted lists in word which are still not correct but I assume I can fix for the spec. Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 30/06/2010 13:01 ----- From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Date: 25/06/2010 16:07 Subject: Fw: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Hi Alan - were you going to take the updates forward, or did you want me to make some changes first? Reviewed Steve's updates to the parsing and unparsing rules. - it might be possible to simplify the nil processing in the rules by having a defintion up front. - 'nil indicator set' need a definition - Discussion about whether 'usNilForDefaults' could be replaced by some way of defining a literal, out of band value for the default. - 'value' used when should be 'output value' - dfdl:emptyValueDelimietrPolicy description should be moved from defaulting section to initiator section. - 'text markup' used in section 14.2 of spec Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 ----- Forwarded by Steve Hanson/UK/IBM on 25/06/2010 16:00 ----- From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 23/06/2010 11:18 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Here's my latest updates. As discussed I have reworked the 'Nils & Defaults on parsing/unparsing' sections. One question was thrown up. On parsing when a required complex element is missing, we add it to the infoset as long as applying default processing to its missing children does not cause an error. You will see I have used the phrase 'Missing element processing is applied to all child elements.' to cover this. But 'Missing element processing' as now spelled out in the same section includes 'nillable and empty string' processing when the child is simple. Does this apply here? [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v5-SMH.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 16/06/2010 14:40 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Hi Alan I've updated the document and added some comments. Still quite a bit to discuss. Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 02/06/2010 11:21 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org I have updated based on last weeks call Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 02/06/2010 11:20 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 25/05/2010 17:27 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All I have added unparsing and corrected some of the existing information in this latest version. I did attempt to write out the dfdl:nilValueDelimiterPolicy and dfdl:emptyValueDelimiterPolicy options in full but it became unreadable hence the 'as controlled by' short cut. Links still don't work Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 25/05/2010 17:22 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 13/05/2010 17:28 Subject: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All Attached is an updated version of the nils and defaults sections of the specification. I have only completed the parsing section so far which you should be able to review while I am on vacation. If someone would like to add the unparsing section that would be great. Note that the cross references are not correct. Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU #### dfdl-nils-defaults v2.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 23 May 2010 by Alan Powell. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg #### dfdl-nils-defaults v3.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 01 June 2010 by Alan Powell. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg #### dfdl-nils-defaults v4.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 08 June 2010 by Steve Hanson. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU #### dfdl-nils-defaults-v4-SMH.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 (Link) on 22 June 2010 by Steve Hanson. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v6.1.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
All: After reviewing the changes proposed by Steve I'm glad that my suggested mods were to be placed before the existing section (as he has changes everywhere!). My suggestion would be an introductory paragraph at the start of the section to set the stage for: - why are we spending this whole section describing these concepts (why are they important) - why are we starting with our own definitions of terms - how do these concepts fit together I have some rough wording I'd like to start with for a proposal: Processing of nils and defaults for parsing and unparsing relies on several concepts and can be confusing unless explicitly described. We need to consider the content of the datastream or the infoset, the cardinality of the elements and sometimes their parents, and DFDL properties related to nill and default values as well as syntax such as initiators and terminators. For parsing we are looking at the incoming datastream and the DFDL properties to determine what gets built into the infoset. This involves decisions such as: If the data is not in the datastream does this equate to a default value, or a nill value, or nothing at all in the created infoset? For unparsing we are looking at the infoset and the DFDL properties to determine what gets built into the output datastream. This involves decisions such as: If there is no value for an element in the infoset do we need to create the initiator and terminator in the datastream? We will start off by defining some terms which we will be used to make describing the rules a little clearer. If this is too 'light' for the spec we can always put in the tutorial/primer...but I wanted to get some amount of high level overview together while we were working through this. Regards, Stephanie Fetzer WebSphere Common Transformation Industry Packs - Software Engineer From: Steve Hanson <smh@uk.ibm.com> To: Alan Powell <alan_powell@uk.ibm.com> Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 07/07/2010 07:18 AM Subject: [DFDL-WG] Action 086 Nils and Default processing - draft 8 Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Hi Alan I started to make comments but decided that it was easier to make changes directly, so that is what I did. Comments that remain are for things that need discussion (there's only a couple). I made a lot of changes including sorting out your bullet numbering but the main changes were: a) The 'If ... Else If' logic had gone badly astray, because of combining the non-initiator and initiator cases. It's not as compact as we thought but still better combined I think. b) "If 'is nil' with the content region as the empty string" - the content region clause is redundant. Your separate definition of 'is nil' combined with being in a 'missing element' branch of the logic, means just saying 'is ni' is sufficient. c) Definition of nil when unparsing - does not need the useNilForDefaults clause - nil and mssing are mutually exclusive when unparsing. The useNilForDefault property comes into play via 'has default'. Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 02/07/2010 15:34 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing - draft 7 Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org All Latest draft (v7 )of the nils and default document incorporating comments from this week. Please send comments before next WG call. Still having problems with bulleted lists Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 02/07/2010 15:32 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 30/06/2010 13:05 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All Latest draft of the nils and default document incorporating comments from last week. As you will see I have been having problems with bulleted lists in word which are still not correct but I assume I can fix for the spec. Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 30/06/2010 13:01 ----- From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Date: 25/06/2010 16:07 Subject: Fw: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Hi Alan - were you going to take the updates forward, or did you want me to make some changes first? Reviewed Steve's updates to the parsing and unparsing rules. - it might be possible to simplify the nil processing in the rules by having a defintion up front. - 'nil indicator set' need a definition - Discussion about whether 'usNilForDefaults' could be replaced by some way of defining a literal, out of band value for the default. - 'value' used when should be 'output value' - dfdl:emptyValueDelimietrPolicy description should be moved from defaulting section to initiator section. - 'text markup' used in section 14.2 of spec Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 ----- Forwarded by Steve Hanson/UK/IBM on 25/06/2010 16:00 ----- From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 23/06/2010 11:18 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Here's my latest updates. As discussed I have reworked the 'Nils & Defaults on parsing/unparsing' sections. One question was thrown up. On parsing when a required complex element is missing, we add it to the infoset as long as applying default processing to its missing children does not cause an error. You will see I have used the phrase 'Missing element processing is applied to all child elements.' to cover this. But 'Missing element processing' as now spelled out in the same section includes 'nillable and empty string' processing when the child is simple. Does this apply here? [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v5-SMH.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 16/06/2010 14:40 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Hi Alan I've updated the document and added some comments. Still quite a bit to discuss. Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 02/06/2010 11:21 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org I have updated based on last weeks call Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 02/06/2010 11:20 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 25/05/2010 17:27 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All I have added unparsing and corrected some of the existing information in this latest version. I did attempt to write out the dfdl:nilValueDelimiterPolicy and dfdl:emptyValueDelimiterPolicy options in full but it became unreadable hence the 'as controlled by' short cut. Links still don't work Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 25/05/2010 17:22 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 13/05/2010 17:28 Subject: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All Attached is an updated version of the nils and defaults sections of the specification. I have only completed the parsing section so far which you should be able to review while I am on vacation. If someone would like to add the unparsing section that would be great. Note that the cross references are not correct. Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU #### dfdl-nils-defaults v2.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 23 May 2010 by Alan Powell. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg #### dfdl-nils-defaults v3.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 01 June 2010 by Alan Powell. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg #### dfdl-nils-defaults v4.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 08 June 2010 by Steve Hanson. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU #### dfdl-nils-defaults-v4-SMH.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 (Link) on 22 June 2010 by Steve Hanson. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v6.1.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v7.doc" deleted by Stephanie Fetzer/Charlotte/IBM] [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v8.doc" deleted by Stephanie Fetzer/Charlotte/IBM] -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg
Further comments in this version: regards, Tim Kimber, Common Transformation Team, Hursley, UK Internet: kimbert@uk.ibm.com Tel. 01962-816742 Internal tel. 246742 From: Stephanie Fetzer <sfetzer@us.ibm.com> To: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM@IBMGB Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org, dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Date: 07/07/2010 13:43 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Action 086 Nils and Default processing - draft 8 All: After reviewing the changes proposed by Steve I'm glad that my suggested mods were to be placed before the existing section (as he has changes everywhere!). My suggestion would be an introductory paragraph at the start of the section to set the stage for: - why are we spending this whole section describing these concepts (why are they important) - why are we starting with our own definitions of terms - how do these concepts fit together I have some rough wording I'd like to start with for a proposal: Processing of nils and defaults for parsing and unparsing relies on several concepts and can be confusing unless explicitly described. We need to consider the content of the datastream or the infoset, the cardinality of the elements and sometimes their parents, and DFDL properties related to nill and default values as well as syntax such as initiators and terminators. For parsing we are looking at the incoming datastream and the DFDL properties to determine what gets built into the infoset. This involves decisions such as: If the data is not in the datastream does this equate to a default value, or a nill value, or nothing at all in the created infoset? For unparsing we are looking at the infoset and the DFDL properties to determine what gets built into the output datastream. This involves decisions such as: If there is no value for an element in the infoset do we need to create the initiator and terminator in the datastream? We will start off by defining some terms which we will be used to make describing the rules a little clearer. If this is too 'light' for the spec we can always put in the tutorial/primer...but I wanted to get some amount of high level overview together while we were working through this. Regards, Stephanie Fetzer WebSphere Common Transformation Industry Packs - Software Engineer From: Steve Hanson <smh@uk.ibm.com> To: Alan Powell <alan_powell@uk.ibm.com> Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 07/07/2010 07:18 AM Subject: [DFDL-WG] Action 086 Nils and Default processing - draft 8 Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Hi Alan I started to make comments but decided that it was easier to make changes directly, so that is what I did. Comments that remain are for things that need discussion (there's only a couple). I made a lot of changes including sorting out your bullet numbering but the main changes were: a) The 'If ... Else If' logic had gone badly astray, because of combining the non-initiator and initiator cases. It's not as compact as we thought but still better combined I think. b) "If 'is nil' with the content region as the empty string" - the content region clause is redundant. Your separate definition of 'is nil' combined with being in a 'missing element' branch of the logic, means just saying 'is ni' is sufficient. c) Definition of nil when unparsing - does not need the useNilForDefaults clause - nil and mssing are mutually exclusive when unparsing. The useNilForDefault property comes into play via 'has default'. Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 02/07/2010 15:34 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing - draft 7 Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org All Latest draft (v7 )of the nils and default document incorporating comments from this week. Please send comments before next WG call. Still having problems with bulleted lists Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 02/07/2010 15:32 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 30/06/2010 13:05 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All Latest draft of the nils and default document incorporating comments from last week. As you will see I have been having problems with bulleted lists in word which are still not correct but I assume I can fix for the spec. Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 30/06/2010 13:01 ----- From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Date: 25/06/2010 16:07 Subject: Fw: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Hi Alan - were you going to take the updates forward, or did you want me to make some changes first? Reviewed Steve's updates to the parsing and unparsing rules. - it might be possible to simplify the nil processing in the rules by having a defintion up front. - 'nil indicator set' need a definition - Discussion about whether 'usNilForDefaults' could be replaced by some way of defining a literal, out of band value for the default. - 'value' used when should be 'output value' - dfdl:emptyValueDelimietrPolicy description should be moved from defaulting section to initiator section. - 'text markup' used in section 14.2 of spec Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 ----- Forwarded by Steve Hanson/UK/IBM on 25/06/2010 16:00 ----- From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 23/06/2010 11:18 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Here's my latest updates. As discussed I have reworked the 'Nils & Defaults on parsing/unparsing' sections. One question was thrown up. On parsing when a required complex element is missing, we add it to the infoset as long as applying default processing to its missing children does not cause an error. You will see I have used the phrase 'Missing element processing is applied to all child elements.' to cover this. But 'Missing element processing' as now spelled out in the same section includes 'nillable and empty string' processing when the child is simple. Does this apply here? [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v5-SMH.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 16/06/2010 14:40 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Hi Alan I've updated the document and added some comments. Still quite a bit to discuss. Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 02/06/2010 11:21 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org I have updated based on last weeks call Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 02/06/2010 11:20 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 25/05/2010 17:27 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Fw: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All I have added unparsing and corrected some of the existing information in this latest version. I did attempt to write out the dfdl:nilValueDelimiterPolicy and dfdl:emptyValueDelimiterPolicy options in full but it became unreadable hence the 'as controlled by' short cut. Links still don't work Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 25/05/2010 17:22 ----- From: Alan Powell/UK/IBM To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 13/05/2010 17:28 Subject: Action 086 Nils and Default processing All Attached is an updated version of the nils and defaults sections of the specification. I have only completed the parsing section so far which you should be able to review while I am on vacation. If someone would like to add the unparsing section that would be great. Note that the cross references are not correct. Regards Alan Powell Development - MQSeries, Message Broker, ESB IBM Software Group, Application and Integration Middleware Software ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM MP211, Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom Phone: +44-1962-815073 e-mail: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU #### dfdl-nils-defaults v2.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 23 May 2010 by Alan Powell. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg #### dfdl-nils-defaults v3.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 01 June 2010 by Alan Powell. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg #### dfdl-nils-defaults v4.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 ( Link) on 08 June 2010 by Steve Hanson. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU #### dfdl-nils-defaults-v4-SMH.doc moved to MyAttachments Repository V3.8 (Link) on 22 June 2010 by Steve Hanson. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v6.1.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v7.doc" deleted by Stephanie Fetzer/Charlotte/IBM] [attachment "dfdl-nils-defaults-v8.doc" deleted by Stephanie Fetzer/Charlotte/IBM] -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
participants (4)
-
Alan Powell -
Stephanie Fetzer -
Steve Hanson -
Tim Kimber