- cypherpunks-legacy@lists.ogf.org

POLITICAL DISPERSION: Contact with Christic Institute
by $HOME/.sig 22 Apr '93

22 Apr '93

Hi All, Due to a recent posting in alt.conspiracy I was finally able to make contact with the Christic Institute. These are the people who were continually suing the CIQA during the 80's for violations of intelligence laws. They were almost completely wiped out by questionable decisions in a federal lawsuit and loss of their non-profit tax status during the last days of the bush administration. Their present status is as follows, 286/AT class machines 20-30 mb hard disks, 1200 baud connectivity only. and have said they will attempt to acquire a 9600 baud modem...(maybe someone on the list has a spare that they could donate). they have only 1 person who knows about "software" and he sounds like he doesnt have a whole lot of time on his hands I was either thinking about obtaining a pubnix account on their behalf..( or cheap commercial shell account(netcom). or installing waffle along with pgp2.2 and praying. Any suggestions from the group would be welcome. BTW I have worked at expressing the power and connectivity of the internet to him. I dont know how much sunk in at the time.The person I talked to was Dave Reed Christic Institute, 310-287-1556 310-287-1559 FAX 8773 Venice Blvd Los Angeles, Ca 90034 In addition I have been attempting to make contact with the Santa Cruz Action Team to get them connected. I will be making contact with many human rights/eco/etc groups over the next month...(I feel like a crypto-anarchist Johnny Appleseed) - -------- - -- To add the following key block to your PGP2.0 Public Key Ring save this entire message to a file and enter the following command: pgp -ka [name_of_file_saved] The above key block is included on every message I send from - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.2 mQCNAiqua1sAAAEEAMhfx9J4HPDUZReVFsxS1EZh1jArbIKYtFsL8qit1xCDU8xk Sg/MyOVg37CXv/zKGhjrYt1/F4zntHewIDMm3LkH/G/do74zq1R1NrukD5PUbU8/ aeOvsFmjI3HGJGQNpPXXd8eegxHeggOpQPqLNbsl+VSFY5qka/gXinP2G6VzAAUR tB9rZWxseSA8cGxlaWt1IWtlbGx5QG5ldGNvbS5jb20+tBFzbmFrZUBjYWRlbmNl LmNvbbQdS2VsbHkgR29lbiA8a2VsbHlAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUCBRAq0+Yk4nXe Dv9n9wsBAUbXA/9nPYjlRcak+JHZzrU8IHwqvSi/eA8IxKfviB0aaOgEkJOgoSrD FzGl0wq9usgqywl1cG05pHhy9dE5YisPrhQUq7Vo3piOxsrhAxdX3OP14wEfqpIU g23lgq55DKKHVf5ea+/F84mdTO7l3Ef4BzfwdKa7YfsFzLOcjWthwnQa84kAlQIF ECq1XovhoOw8SgKpbwEB8bgD/RkyuGei5GZFmXACvF5tBJ2UsCOmmv1c4y4gFQ6U /YO+lO22kVbW497tKJYZyJIMqCj9AnlhqPePiYrj76n951tF3R5AkmTaBIC1SAB6 2oB7xgOSnrt0LxZJml6cLROM6ZpFYIvOVp5GHGlVWu9vxP7BKo+z4LnzFlQzu83O Et4U =PfOI - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- pleiku!kelly(a)netcom.com.... ------- End of Unsent Draft

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REMAIL: The other shoe drops
by $HOME/.sig 22 Apr '93

22 Apr '93

And John Gilmore Spake: (Much Deleted) > To permanently restore at least last month's level of service, we need > a couple of dedicated, firewalled, buttressed sites. You want a few > geographically separated people who own their own systems (or who own > or run the company that owns them), who have solid network links > (possibly redundant), and who are fully committed to the idea -- as > committed as funet.fi to persist past the vilification and harassment > and threats. > > And those people need backup from the rest of us -- legal help if they > need or want it, money to pay the networking bill if things get tight, > loans of backup equipment during failures under load, system > administration when folks try to break in and trash their machines, > software creation and maintenance, advocacy, policy work, advice, and > a bunch of shoulders to cry on and warm words of encouragement. > > Three to five people providing such setups, in collaboration, would > wedge a steel-toed boot so firmly in the door that it couldn't be > slammed by any dyspeptic "net god". > > Are we up to this job? If not, let's scale back what we're trying to > do. I'd rather succeed at raising consciousness on the issue for a > later try, than try now to set up such a beachhead and fail at it. John I am forced to agree with you here..... I dont think we have the "juice" to carry off a maximum effort at this point... I would gladly volunteer to setup such a site AND I would need a peacenet feed instead of the "gratis" connections I obtain from netcom.... I AM already uncoercible... as you well know and I would need you as well as others in backing on this effort...OK kids... Here we have one volunteer if we can get at least 3 other sites(my mininum buyin is 4 US sites).... Hey John... what about you??? cheers kelly p.s. I would be willing to maintain a PAX type anon operation as well as an anon-remailer.....and a KEY server... would also offer the PGP archives via mail server... note that I am uucp connected and would need to upgrade to 56 kb leased or V-FAST technology... - ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- End of Unsent Draft

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AT&T in Greensboro
by Harry Shapiro 22 Apr '93

22 Apr '93

Eric mentioned boycotting AT&T products produced at facilities in Greensboro. I did a quick search of AT&T Greensboor for the last years, looking through trade and tech pubs. Basically their is mention of their Federal Systems group and there Federal systems advanced technologies group. They have a AT&T Proposal center there and a business called AT&T Technical Service Co. Bell Labs/Federal Systems group runs the Guilford Center complex there. They annouced they are building a 5 Million dollar plant for building telecommunications products for the US Gov. and for the International Commerical Markets. (This was within this years, and may or may not have been, at that time, a cover to hide what ever facilities were being built for the WireTap Chip project. It should be noted that Public Key Partners is located in Greensboro. That the AT&T deal with them at the time, was probally completed so that the WireTap phone systems AT&T will sell will not violate RSA/PKP patents. /harry -- Harry Shapiro habs(a)panix.com List Administrator of the Extropy Institute Mailing List Private Communication for the Extropian Community since 1991

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Re: "Cypherpunks Write Code"
by elee9sf＠Menudo.UH.EDU 22 Apr '93

22 Apr '93

Derek writes: > > Since I'd like to be part of the cypherdelic revolution, > what code needs writing? I agree that the PC/modem Heh, lots of stuff could be done: 1) Hack around with the anonymous remailers. Eric mentioned he is working on a "second generation" remailer which allows users to specify cut marks, etc. I've been fooling with one that caches all incoming messages in a directory, and then at midnight (by using the at command) mails/routes each messages on its way. Still got problems with it, though... 2) DC Nets. Yanek Martinson is working on a DC Net implementation using email. A TCP/IP version would be nice! 3) CELP. Don't know much about this other that porting it and hand coding parts in assembly for speed would be welcome. Then, we could have our own encrypted conversations. 4) Digital Bank. A full-blown implementation (RSA encryption and decryption, blinded messages, etc). I have written a scaled down digital bank which provides privacy and security by using random cash and random account numbers, and does not correlate account numbers with usernames. It's written in the Korn shell, and I plan many improvements once the semester is over (rewrite in PERL for one...) But my bank does not implement Chaum's digicash scheme, and that would be best. 5) Once that is done, we can experiment with a "cash accepting" remailer - one that will only remail if valid digicash is included in the header, or whatever. Then, such a system may be expanded to do anonymous or pseudonymous usenet posting, which may be an acceptible (to folks who are vehemently against anonymous posting, etc.) solution to helping prevent abuse by such services. 6) Steganography, hiding code in other documents. For example, hiding each bit of a message (encrypted or not) in the low order bits of an image, gif, tiff, whatever. I've played around with the tiff format and will try to use Sam Lieffler's (sp?) tiff package to help out. Writing a program that will automatically embed a message in a picture and read a message out will be useful. ("hey everyone, be sure to get the denning.gif from alt.binaries.pictures.misc and read my comments about the clipper chip!") 7) Misc stuff. Check out the scripts which help in the use of the anonymous remailers - they are for UNIX and DOS. Amiga, Mac, etc. versions needed. 8) Take your favorite unix utility (mail for example) or whatever and add encryption automatically. Sure, using it on a multi-user systems may not be the best thing to do, but the code, techniques, and solutions would be of value and would aid others. 9) probably lots of other stuff that would be nice... /-----------------------------------\ | Karl L. Barrus | | elee9sf(a)menudo.uh.edu | <- preferred address | barrus(a)tree.egr.uh.edu (NeXTMail) | \-----------------------------------/

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AT&T/SUITS
by Sandy 22 Apr '93

22 Apr '93

_________________________________________________________________ FROM THE VIRTUAL DESK OF SANDY SANDFORT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Punksters, AT&T: CO-CONSPIRATORS At the last physical San Francisco meeting, I mentioned a curious conversation I had with an AT&T representative. I had called him for info about the ATT Secure Phone 3600. What I reported to the meeting was that while the representative would not "confirm or deny" that the 3600 had a backdoor, his demeanor suggested to me that it did. Now in reviewing the conversation in my memory, I realize that what I was hearing from him was a SMUGNESS. It had the flavor of the cat that swallowed the canary. He obviously knew about the upcoming announcement. In retrospect, I see that he was playing with me by dropping hints such as: "If the NSA were to ask us to put a backdoor in the 3600, of course we would have to cooperate." Talk about your "secret government." Where are Slick Willie's "town hall meetings" when you need them? SUITS ME Let a hundred flowers blossom. Those of us who wish to fight the good fight in suits, should do so. Likewise, those who wish to remain long-haired, maggot-infested, dope-smoking hippies, should follow their hearts. I have no problem with the "Cypherpunks" moniker. It hasn't hurt us, and it has brought us some favorable publicity. I think Perry is being an alarmist. In one point, though, Perry is right. He said people will listen to unconventional folks who present reasonable ideas. But it appears that Perry thinks our support of freedom and privacy is somehow unreasonable in the eyes of Joe Lunchbucket. I respectfully disagree. I think we represent the essence of American values. All we have to do is put it in terms the are immediate and personally relevant to the average American. For the record though, as Tim May can attest, I am bi-cultural. I have gotten in touch with the Suit inside me. If Cypherpunks ever needs a spokesperson in a "dress for success" suit, I'll be glad to volunteer. There is one condition, however. I will only do it if I'm teamed with someone not in a suit; preferably with long hair and wearing tie-dyed. Think of the photo op! S a n d y _________________________________________________________________ PLEASE RESPOND TO: ssandfort(a)attmail.com (except from CompuServe) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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non-cypher related question on audio analysis
by jet＠nas.nasa.gov 22 Apr '93

22 Apr '93

This is only the tiniest bit related to crypto, but that doesn't seem to be much outside the criteria for submissions to this list.. :-) Anyone got pointers to decoding audio tones? An intro book, source code, newsgroup, mailing list, somebody I can take to lunch? I'd like to sample audio with my SGI, and suck out various simple tones and combinations of tones. (DTMF, single pitch variant tones, etc.) thx. -- J. Eric Townsend jet(a)nas.nasa.gov 415.604.4311 NASA Ames Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation | play: jet(a)well.sf.ca.us Parallel Systems Support, CM-5 POC | '92 R100R / DoD# 0378 PGP2.1 public key available upon request or finger jet(a)simeon.nas.nasa.gov

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A question...
by crunch＠netcom.com 22 Apr '93

22 Apr '93

Excuse the high bozo factor, but... I have a question... Does the Clipper Er: Wiretap chip provide a means of authentification?

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ANON SITES:
by $HOME/.sig 22 Apr '93

22 Apr '93

The present plan prosed by John Gilmore is good 3-4 U.S. Sites willing to risk litigation and counter-litigation. And I have a another sort of plan that still really requires an out of country A-server(anonymous posting server). A number of PGP-related services may be set up behind such a screen. Having PGP encryption in the style of PAX would be crucial to maintain the anonymity of such services. #1. Michael Grafs PGP Key-Server #2. Anonymous Digital "face" banks(ala Chaum) #3. Gray Market Exchange #4. Encrypted Anonymous Mailing Lists(Example: Dark Technology) #5. Data Havens. #6. alt.whistleblowers(really "hearing aid" see Brunner, J. "Shockwave Rider" A vast network of anonymous servers may be maintained behind the screen of a single foreign site A-server ready to come on line at a single command if suppression attempts are experienced. However AARM type scripts will continue to be a threat,I also think we should look at the possibility of both port 25 and port 119 manipulation with auto-search and random selection of NNTP and SMTP open servers as well as header addition to confuse path analysis... I know this is normally regarded as unprofitable but considering what we are up against... Addition dialup slip and ppp hosts could use a variety of 9.6-56kb dialup sites to provide rotating xntp synchronized anonymous posting and mail services.Uucp sites could play as well on email-based services via uucp. Are any foreign sites up for running David Clunies PAX Code??? cheers kelly - -------- - -- To add the following key block to your PGP2.0 Public Key Ring save this entire message to a file and enter the following command: pgp -ka [name_of_file_saved] The above key block is included on every message I send from - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.2 mQCNAiqua1sAAAEEAMhfx9J4HPDUZReVFsxS1EZh1jArbIKYtFsL8qit1xCDU8xk Sg/MyOVg37CXv/zKGhjrYt1/F4zntHewIDMm3LkH/G/do74zq1R1NrukD5PUbU8/ aeOvsFmjI3HGJGQNpPXXd8eegxHeggOpQPqLNbsl+VSFY5qka/gXinP2G6VzAAUR tB9rZWxseSA8cGxlaWt1IWtlbGx5QG5ldGNvbS5jb20+tBFzbmFrZUBjYWRlbmNl LmNvbbQdS2VsbHkgR29lbiA8a2VsbHlAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUCBRAq0+Yk4nXe Dv9n9wsBAUbXA/9nPYjlRcak+JHZzrU8IHwqvSi/eA8IxKfviB0aaOgEkJOgoSrD FzGl0wq9usgqywl1cG05pHhy9dE5YisPrhQUq7Vo3piOxsrhAxdX3OP14wEfqpIU g23lgq55DKKHVf5ea+/F84mdTO7l3Ef4BzfwdKa7YfsFzLOcjWthwnQa84kAlQIF ECq1XovhoOw8SgKpbwEB8bgD/RkyuGei5GZFmXACvF5tBJ2UsCOmmv1c4y4gFQ6U /YO+lO22kVbW497tKJYZyJIMqCj9AnlhqPePiYrj76n951tF3R5AkmTaBIC1SAB6 2oB7xgOSnrt0LxZJml6cLROM6ZpFYIvOVp5GHGlVWu9vxP7BKo+z4LnzFlQzu83O Et4U =PfOI - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- pleiku!kelly(a)netcom.com.... ------- End of Unsent Draft

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life, universe, everything
by AOLCHTNN＠vax1.tcd.ie 22 Apr '93

22 Apr '93

I got your address in mondo8. I need information on encryption software. Unfortunately, external telnets have been impossible for some time now, so I can't look for it through the usual channels. Thanks in advance. AOL

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Should we become "suits"?
by pmetzger＠lehman.com 22 Apr '93

22 Apr '93

No one said anything about becoming "suits", Tim. The problem is this: the name "Cypherpunks" makes us sound like people who break into computers for fun or other such stuff. I was on the phone with John Markoff of the New York Times a couple of days ago, and I was unhappy that no one had yet changed the name of the group because I frankly felt that I could not encourage him to subscribe -- the results would be unpredictable. I encouraged him to read more sci.crypt instead, which he has already been doing. I've been associated with radical political causes for a while. I've found that in general, the radicals are their own worst enemy. People are NOT happy about being lectured to by strange-acting people. Bill Winter of the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire was their chairman over the period in which the LPNH went from four members of the state party to actually becoming a force in New Hampshire politics. New Hampshire is the *only* LP outpost to make any significant electoral inroads, *anywhere*. He once told me this: you can get people to accept strange sounding ideas when promulgated by normal looking people. You can get them to accept normal-sounding ideas when promulgated by strange looking people. You can't get them to accept strange ideas when promulgated by strange people. No, I'm not saying you should wear a suit. I'm not saying John Gilmore should cut his hair and start wearing Armani. I'm just saying that our name is a stumbling block. Why shoot ourselves in the foot for something worthless? The simple change in our name from something confrontational that makes us sound like machine crackers to something that expresses what this group is about would make a radical positive change in our image. Now, what are the benefits of keeping the current name "cypherpunks"? Well, lets see Tim's list. >In a sense, Cypherpunks fill an important ecological niche by >being the outrageous side, the radical side...perhaps a bit like the role >the Black Panthers, Yippies, and Weather Underground played a generation >ago. None of whom accomplished any of their goals. You REALLY want to emulate them? I've been an occassional visitor to #9 Bleeker Street, where Dana Beal, last of the Yippies, holds court. He doesn't wash regularly, and he wonders occassionaly why no one takes his drug legalization crusade seriously. Hint: they are connected. We can't afford to lose this fight. This is a matter of life and death. Playing out fantasy games about being 1960s radicals is fine and well -- when you don't care about the outcome. We can't afford to lose, so we can't afford to emulate losing strategies. > And, frankly, my guess is that even most of Middle America will >feel somewhat more comfortable listening to a John Gilmore, for example, >than a Bill Gates-type nerd clone. People know honesty and sincerity when >they see it, and they know lawyers when they see them. It's been 25 years >since the hippie heyday, and most Americans have adjusted to varying >outward appearances. Well, I'm not proposing that John not be a spokesman -- most of our interaction with the media is happening electronically and not in person, and John is eloquent. But you are fooling yourself if you think people listen to Hippies over Suits. I'm speaking as a person who used to have long hair and worked exclusively in Tee-shirt and shorts. I feel more comfortable dressed that way -- but these days I wear a suit because thats what gets me paid. I'm also speaking as a person who's extensively looked at this question in connection with my activism in the Libertarian Party. The fact is this: over and over again, every scientific study thats been done (by lots of people), every anecdotal comparison I can make in things like why one LP candidate did well and another did poorly or why one local group soared while another failed, each one of them point to the same conclusion: that conclusion is, sadly, that you are completely wrong Tim, and that people judge by appearances, and that even the most down and out people in our society will take the word of a person who looks respectable over a person who doesn't. This includes hackers -- hackers will trust grungy looking people as soon as they have verified that they are fellow hackers, but watch what they do sometime when they drive by a hitchhiker as casually dressed as themselves. Take a sample of hackers, put them in a sociology lab, show them videotapes of people making statements who are dressed like hippies and dressed like bankers, and five will get you ten that they react just like the rest of the population. Influencing the public is not a guessing game any more -- its a science. People have done honest to god studies on this. I'll happily forward you references if you want. >We don't all have the same politics...some of us are >anarcho-capitalists, some are socialists (I hear), some are nonpolitical >(as near as I can tell), some decline to state, and some may off in their >own uncharted territory. But what we all seem to believe in common is that >no government has the right to force us to make tape recordings of all of >our conversations (to be placed in escrow, in case the government someday >needs to listen to them!), to tap our phones, to insist we speak in >government-approved non-coded language, and to use their "Wiretap Chips." Fine and dandy, but how does changing our name to "cryptoprivacy" harm any of this? >In any case, it's much too late to change the name now. No its not. Its perfectly easy. >And note tha the "Hackers Conference" has not changed _their_ name, >either, despite the negative publicity given the name. They aren't doing any lobbying. Their name doesn't matter. Their image makes no difference at all. Ours does. >As for respectablity, is our goal to be "co-opted" into the >Establishment? Tim, I'm an anarchist. Do you REALLY think I'm about to become co-opted by the establishment? Is it REALLY your belief that changing the name of the group to "cryptoprivacy" would turn me into a raving statist, foaming at the mouth about imposing regulatory control structures? >There are already several groups, as I've mentioned, made up of lawyers >and "respectable spokesmen" like Mitch Kapor and Mike Godwin (wherever he >is now). No one can log in to their groups -- we provide an essential service. I WANT the New York Times reporter reading this group, but I don't want him to think we are crackers or nuts. >But I don't plan to shave off my beard, cut my hair, start wearing suits, >or be "moderate and reasonable" in my arguments. Who asked you to? You aren't going on television, and moderating your ARGUMENTS is useless. I'm talking about appearances, nothing more. Our name is cheap and easy to change. It costs us little, and I'm not proposing we change anything else. Perry

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