July 2006 - ogsa-wg - lists.ogf.org

Teleconference minutes - 10 July 2006
by Andreas Savva 11 Jul '06

11 Jul '06

https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13651?nav=1 -- Andreas Savva Fujitsu Laboratories Ltd OGSA Teleconference - 10 July 2006 ================================== * Participants Pete Ziu (Northrop Grumman) Jay Unger (IBM) Jem Treadwell (HP) Ellen Stokes (IBM) Andreas Savva (Fujitsu) Mark Morgan (UVa) Fred Maciel (Hitachi) Hiro Kishimoto (Fujitsu) Chris Jordan (SDSC) * June 29 minutes approved with no changes * July 6 minutes approved with no changes * Action review [Only items with updates are listed.] ** Jay will look into getting a room at downtown D.C. for the B2B F2F after GGF18 - Sent room request; waiting for reply - Do not know if facilities have internet connection ** Hiro will ask Pete Ziu to check if it is possible to reserve a room at Northrop Grumman for the B2B F2F after GGF18 - Sent room request; waiting for reply. - Do not know if facilities have internet connection ** Hiro will send out an email outlining the proposal and aim to confirm it on the next call - Hiro submitted a request for 4 sessions. Closed. ** Andreas to upload the sequence diagrams to Gridforge. - This was closed last time. * OGSA-15: F2F session update - Ellen has a conflict most of Monday since she has to attend a DMTF TC meeting. She can be available only between 8:30-10:30am on Monday. - There are only a few possibilities since many people (Jay, Dave, Andrew, etc) will not be available Tuesday afternoon and Wednesday, and there are people dialling in from Europe for the morning sessions. ACTION: Hiro & Andreas will look into re-arranging the Monday and Tuesday morning sessions. Plan is to confirm schedule on Thursday's call, including other logistics. * Information model discussion - Jay has talked with a number of people (Andrew, Chris). There is no write up from Miron. - If there is agreement (seems likely) that the internal representation of both a schema-based approach and a schema-less approach will or can be the same the question is whether there is anything that can be expressed with the second approach that cannot be expressed with the first. Jay claimed that Ellen's hierarchical (Resource, capability) rendering example has such a feature. Other people disagreed. - This discussion will continue at the F2F. ACTION: Jay will provide a document summarizing the advantages of the schema-less approach for discussion at the F2F. * Roadmap update Chris Jordan gave an update on the Roadmap activities: - Bi-weekly conference calls have been started with a small core group. Next call this Wednesday. - Reviewing trackers this week - Will be contacting persons that can provide Roadmap entries - Mike Behrens wil be writing up a short document on underlying WS standards - The Introduction will be re-written to de-link it from other document publications since the Roadmap will be published periodically and should therefore stand alone. - Have started a wiki space (blank page at the moment). * Security discussion: Postponed to Thursday & conditional on progress * CDDLM & EMS: Postponed to Thursday & conditional on progress

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OGSA Roadmap Editors call, 7/12
by Christopher Jordan 11 Jul '06

11 Jul '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The next roadmap editors call will be this Wednesday at 3PM PDT - 6PM EDT - 7AM 7/13 Japan time. Here are the call-in details: Host: Christopher Jordan Meeting Title: OGSA Roadmap Editing Meeting Date: July 12, 2006 03:00 PM [Pacific Time] To Join Audio Conference Primary Dial-In: 1 (877) 213-2541 Alternate Dial-In: 1 (630) 424-7813 Passcode: 7035408# Proposed Agenda: 1. Roll call/Note taker assignment 2. Agenda Bashing 3. Action Items report Status report from Chris and Mike on section rewrites/new material drafts Update from Dona on "contact tracker" wiki 4. Discussion Topics Review of all Tracker Items Discussion of "Gap Analysis" Discussion of OGF relationship to OGSA process - any changes? Discussion of Information Model/Information Management in OGSA 5. AOB - ---------------------------------------------------- Chris Jordan HPC Systems Engineer High End Computing Systems Group San Diego Supercomputer Center ctjordan(a)sdsc.edu 858.534.8347 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEsxsHPCVtcXn6kg8RAlGBAKDn/8ZHOpruYmY/aN/FxSZ1T7iqEgCgo0C5 nDJAEm5yTqPB0UBs3mmCgBI= =jSBL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Member list wiki page
by Hiro Kishimoto 11 Jul '06

11 Jul '06

Hi Pete, Per your request, I've created a wiki page listing up current WG members. https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.ogsa-wg/wiki/Membe… As we discussed at the call, member list was available for everyone on the old GridForge. But on the new GridForge, only administrator see the list. Thanks, -- Hiro Kishimoto

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Fw: info model XML representation
by Ellen Stokes 10 Jul '06

10 Jul '06

Feedback from the GLUE schema person I've been working with...to factor into our info model discussions. Appears additional collaboration with Sergio is welcome. Ellen Ellen Stokes STSM, Grid Computing TC Member, IBM Academy of Technology Austin, Texas tl 678 0552 outside +1 512 838 0552 stokese(a)us.ibm.com ----- Forwarded by Ellen Stokes/Austin/IBM on 07/10/2006 04:11 PM ----- Sergio Andreozzi <sergio.andreozzi(a)cnaf.infn.it> 06/20/2006 08:16 AM To Ellen Stokes/Austin/IBM@IBMUS cc Laurence Field <Laurence.Field(a)cern.ch> Subject Re: info model XML representation Dear Ellen, I read the document and found it interesting. As regards the main question (which of the two proposal is preferred), I have not a clear answer yet since this depends on the final goal of the paper. Below you can find my considerations: Some preliminary statement: 1. the GLUE Schema models Grid resource characteristics 2. the JDL is used to describe a job request; requirements on resources can be expressed based on GLUE Schema-related attributes 3. JSDL models a job description, hence it contains requirements on resource characteristics; the requirements are expressed over a set of characteristics inspired by CIM; this set of attributes can be "isolated" in a Resource Requirement Language (RRL) so the proportion: JSD : JSDL = GLUE Schema : RRL The document describes a solution to both model resource characteristics and requirements on resources. In order to better position the paper, it would be useful to state: 1. relationship between the proposal for describing resource requirements and the JSDL Resources Elements; Figure 1 can help in understanding, nevertheless it would be better to write it more explicitly 2. better state the goal of the modeling, in the sense that it should be more clear if the purpose of the document is to describe a modeling for enabling a resource selection process; (also in the abstract); a possible discussion on the matchmaking approaches using this modeling could also fit the paper; 3. it is generally more acceptable to write about "a Grid" or "the Grids" instead of "the grid", since there is no a unique Grid as it was envisioned in the early years of this paradigm 4. about the two possible approaches, at a first glance, I do not lean to a particular approach; some comments below: Proposal I - Using XML typing and extensibility pro: * enables better data quality enforcement since it relies on XML Schema data model * characteristics modeled as XML elements (instead of attributes) give more flexibility in defining complex type neutral: there is no a symmetric approach in the description of resources and activities consideration about the node entity; considering the GLUE Schema experience: - resources are managed by batch systems and are organized in pools exposed to the Grid layer - for scalability reasons, there is no description of single nodes, but description of homogeneous set of nodes, i.e., homogeneous execution environments for applications; this implies that only static characteristics are modeled and advertised (e.g., TotalMainMemory is ok, FreeMainMemory is ko); dynamic attributes can be added if they refer to aggregation (e.g., MaxFreeMainMemory, that is the highest free main memory among the nodes present) - an important aspect is the service differentiation, that is, do all Grid users have the same possibility to access a resource or not? this is currently a hot topic and the solutions being investigated adopt the creation of different shares/priorities assignable to different groups/roles hold by users; this means that the resources are the same, but the selection process should be able to consider the QoS aspect; these aspects are important in a resource selection process Proposal II - Using typing outside of XML this approach is schema-free and symmetric (a la ClassAd); One more general comment. An important requirement for a selection system is to be able to express preferences that are used to choose the best resource among the available ones that matched the hard-constraints. This topic was the core of my PhD thesis that you might be interested looking at: ( http://www.cs.unibo.it/pub/TR/UBLCS/ABSTRACTS/2006.bib?ncstrl.cabernet//BOL… ) For resource description, the undertaken approach is close to your proposal I; for requirements and preferences, I've defined a tailored language inspired by XQuery (it is called XMatch). I would like to have your feedback about these considerations. Consider also the possibility of writing a joint paper. Cheers, Sergio Laurence Field wrote: > Hi Ellen, > > I think that Sergio is the correct person to comment on this. I have > cc'd him, > > Laurence > > Ellen Stokes wrote: > >> >> Laurence, >> >> As part of the information model direction that the resource >> management design team is pulling together (part of the GGF OGSA >> workgroup), we are considering 2 alternatives for the XML >> representation of an information model. We've discussed the pros and >> cons of each proposal, but have come to no conclusions or >> recommendations. So, we've decided to solicit the opinions of groups >> that use information models and have an XML representation. And the >> EGEE's G-lite work is one such group. >> I'm not sure if you're the right person to work with to solicit an >> opinion on XML representation. If not, please let me know who I >> should talk with. >> >> I've attached the document. Section 3 proposes the overall direction >> for modeling resources in the grid. Section 4 provides an example >> (take the example at face value - it's just an example so don't worry >> about details of the reousrces modeled) and proposes 2 alternative XML >> representations. I'd like to understand G-lite's opinion on which >> representation should be used to model resources in the grid and why. >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> Ellen >> >> Ellen Stokes >> STSM, Grid Computing >> TC Member, IBM Academy of Technology >> Austin, Texas >> tl 678 0552 outside +1 512 838 0552 >> stokese(a)us.ibm.com > > -- Sergio Andreozzi INFN-CNAF, Tel: +39 051 609 2860 Viale Berti Pichat, 6/2 Fax: +39 051 609 2746 40126 Bologna (Italy) Web: http://www.cnaf.infn.it/~andreozzi

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Update on OGSA HPC Profile WG (incl. LAST CALL on use-case doc)
by Marty Humphrey 10 Jul '06

10 Jul '06

Cross-posting, as per Hiro's request... -----Original Message----- From: owner-ogsa-hpcp-wg(a)ggf.org [mailto:owner-ogsa-hpcp-wg@ggf.org] On Behalf Of Marty Humphrey Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 7:39 AM To: ogsa-hpcp-wg(a)ggf.org Cc: 'Marty Humphrey' Subject: [ogsa-hpcp-wg] Update on OGSA HPC Profile WG (incl. LAST CALL on use-case doc) Folks, As the OGSA F2F is next week, Marvin and I thought it would a good time to recap our group's progress to date. At GGF17 in Tokyo, we outlined three deliverables for the group: OGSA HPC Use Cases (GFD-I; first draft: Apr 2006, ready for public comments: July 2006), OGSA HPC profile specification (GFD-R.P; first draft: Aug 2006; ready for public comments: Nov 2006), and OGSA HPC initial common cases extension profile specification (GFD-R.P; first draft: Jan 2007; ready for public comments: Apr 2007). The OGSA HPC Use Cases document was discussed extensively this Spring, so we'd like to issue a "LAST CALL" on this document, which has recently been reformatted to GGF specification: https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13649?nav=1 . Comments must be made by of 7/17/06 to be reflected in the document that will go into the "public comments" area of GGF (of course, you are free to make comments during the official GGF "public comments" as well -- this "LAST CALL" is being made to the WG). Our OGSA HPC Profile group has been VERY active (the OGSA HPC Profile email list has not been used to date -- all of the activity is taking place in the JSDL and BES working groups, both on the email lists and in the conference calls). We believe that we are making great progress on making sure that our requirements are contained in the current BES draft and being addressed in the next JSDL draft). At this time, we believe that we are on-track to make the Aug 2006 "first draft" deadline for the OGSA HPC profile specification, although much work remains. At the OGSA F2F next week, the topics that we anticipate discussing include BES, JSDL, the issue of "rendering" (e.g., WSRF, WS-I), and the information model. We have made a request to have a single 90-minute session at GGF18 in Wash DC in September. We believe that the majority of this time will be used to discuss our WG's forthcoming initial draft of the OGSA HPC profile specification. Thanks to everyone for participating on the BES and JSDL discussions! We're very happy with our group's progress to date! -- Marty Marty Humphrey Assistant Professor Department of Computer Science University of Virginia

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OGSA Roadmap call minutes uploaded
by Christopher Jordan 10 Jul '06

10 Jul '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I've uploaded the minutes of the last OGSA Editors call, on June 28th, to GridForge. They are available at https://forge.gridforum.org/ sf/go/doc13650?nav=1, or in the normal place you go for all your OGSA telcon minutes. Andreas and Hiro - I think I put it in the appropriate place this time. Let me know if I missed anything. - ---------------------------------------------------- Chris Jordan HPC Systems Engineer High End Computing Systems Group San Diego Supercomputer Center ctjordan(a)sdsc.edu 858.534.8347 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEsmG0PCVtcXn6kg8RAl1nAKCPit7eMsijHgYrFjlkR4zHLll93wCfQOgI EgShVg5+/Unim1VV4bbkpBM= =oEb/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Proposed agenda for July 10th call
by Hiro Kishimoto 10 Jul '06

10 Jul '06

Hi all, The following is a proposed agenda for OGSA-WG telecon on July 10th Monday from 5pm to 7pm (CDT). I am sorry, I cannot follow the 48H rule this time. The dial-in number for Monday; US: +1 718 3541071 (New York) or +1 408 9616509 (San Jose) UK: +44 (0)207 3655269 (London) Japan: +81 (0)3 3570 8225 (Tokyo) PIN: 4371991 Screen share service will be provided. URL: http://ogsa.glance.net Session key: 0710 See more explanation: http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2004/06/msg00077.html 1) Early discussion (20 min) Note taker assignment Roll call Telecon minutes approval (June 29 & July 6) - https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13636?nav=1 - https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13645?nav=1 Action Items status review (see the bottom of this email) Agenda bashing 2) Information model (Ellen and Fred, 30 min) > - Jay will contact Platform (Chris Smith) and Condor (Miron Livny) > to get feedback on pros / cons of the two rendering approaches > (postpone until June 19); and > > - Jay has talked with Miron. There is no written material ready > yet. > - People interested in this topic were asked to come to the OGSA > call. You can download current material from here; - Information Modeling in OGSA - Position Paper https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13073?nav=1 - BES Information Model https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13074?nav=1 - Guidelines on information modeling for OGSA https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc12798?nav=1 3) Roadmap 1.1 (ChrisJ and Dona, 30 min) Chris will report out the status of the roadmap team. He also explain a couple of open issues and ask OGSA-WG at-large for feedbacks. 4) Security & BSP Public Comments review (Frank and Takuya, 20 min) Frank said: > The internal authz call-out interface discussion has so far yielded 23 > email messages in the last couple of days among David, Von and myself > without any clear decisive stated direction yet - please bear with us > while we struggle to find the right PATH. Takuya will send out proposed BSP text change before the call 5) CDDLM & EMS joint discussion (Jun and Hiro, 20 min) Jun will send out revised material before the call. 6) Wrap up AOB <*NEXT CALL*> July 13 (Thu): F2F prep (Tom and Hiro) July 17-20: F2F meeting in Chicago (ANL) Telecon schedule on wiki: https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.ogsa-wg/wiki/Telec… <*ACTION ITEMS*> > From July 6 call - Jay will look into getting a room at downtown D.C. for the B2B F2F after GGF18 - Hiro will ask Pete Ziu to check if it is possible to reserve a room at Northrop Grumman for the B2B F2F after GGF18 > From June 29 call - Hiro will send out an email outlining the proposal and aim to confirm it on the next call - Hiro to also make any relevant updates to the Scenarios text - Jun/Hiro to also prepare the post-deployment BLAST CDL document - Andreas to upload the sequence diagrams to Gridforge. > From June 12 call - Jun will correct the CDL XML examples written by Hiro. > From June 8 call - EMS team (Steven, Andreas, Donal) to review data staging scenario (section 5 of https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13591?nav=1 ) Bring to people's attention again at the next EMS call. (postpone until June 29) > From May 22 call - Jay will contact Platform (Chris Smith) and Condor (Miron Livny) to get feedback on pros / cons of the two rendering approaches (postpone until July 10) - Waiting for Jay to get additional material - Waiting for Marvin's proposal -- Hiro Kishimoto

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Teleconference minutes - 6 July 2006
by Andreas Savva 07 Jul '06

07 Jul '06

Attached. https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13645?nav=1 -- Andreas Savva OGSA Teleconference - 6 July 2006 ================================= * Participants Mike Behrens (R2AD, LLC) Michel Drescher (Fujitsu) Hiro Kishimoto (Fujitsu) Andreas Savva (Fujitsu) Jem Treadwell (HP) Jay Unger (IBM) Minutes: Andreas Savva * Summary of new actions ACTION: Jay will look into getting a room at downtown D.C. for the B2B F2F after GGF18 ACTION: Hiro will ask Pete Ziu to check if it is possible to reserve a room at Northrop Grumman for the B2B F2F after GGF18 * June 29 minutes approval postponed; no quorum * Action item review - Hiro will send out an email outlining the GGF18 proposal and aim to confirm it on the next call - GGF18 proposal not sent out yet. Hiro will send it out to the list and concurrently request the four sessions that the group talked about on a previous call. - Postponed decision for a back-to-back meeting GGF18 (Friday) until the July F2F. Potential hosts are Northrop Grumman or IBM. ACTION: Jay will look into getting a room at downtown D.C. for the B2B F2F after GGF18 ACTION: Hiro will ask Pete Ziu to check if it is possible to reserve a room at Northrop Grumman for the B2B F2F after GGF18 - Hiro to ask Jun and Dejan to check the CDL documents - Waiting for feedback from Dejan/Jun - Hiro to also make any relevant updates to the Scenarios text - Not urgent and since the Scenarios draft is now in flux it is ok to postpone it until the F2F - Jun/Hiro to also prepare the post-deployment BLAST CDL document - There was a discussion of this at the April F2F and Jun had shown some samples that could be used as a base. - Andreas to upload the sequence diagrams to Gridforge. - URL sent out by email. Closed. - Agreed that action items that become obsolete should be dropped from the list. - Closed the last four on the action list (Compliance and three deferred ones) as obsolete. * July F2F update - Agreed to take one hour at the end of the EMS session on Thursday to discuss Geoffrey Fox's comments on OGSA. - Also arrange an informal discussion (smaller group) before Wednesday. * EMS Architecture review - No objections to overall structure and outlined content. A revised first draft with better drafted content will be available at the F2F. - Make sure that sequences focus only on their specific topic and clearly show how they build on each other. * OGSA 1.5 review - Andreas had updated the Intellectual rights & Copyright statement at the back but it needs some further corrections. (Andreas) - Naming policy statement needs more explanation. It assumes that the reader has knowledge of WS-Naming and what 'profiled usage' is. Also it looks normative but it does not use normative terminology and so may be confusing. It is not clear how (not stated that) the statements build on each other. - Jem will send a proposed revision to Andreas - WSDM 1.1 is going to vote for OASIS Standard, should the WSDM reference document be updated? It is not critical. Keep it as is. - (tm) and (sm) usage: Re-affirmed that for now, first use is ok and try to make sure that it is used as an adjective. But it is not a showstopper and this document does not have to wait until the guidelines are clarified. - Agreed to discuss general (tm) (sm) usage guidelines at the F2F.

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Proposed agenda for July 6th call
by Hiro Kishimoto 06 Jul '06

06 Jul '06

Hi all, The following is a proposed agenda for OGSA-WG telecon on July 6th Thursday from 8:30am - 10:30am (CDT). Dial-in numbers for Thursday: Free: +1-888-452-0308 Intl/Toll: +1-484-644-0505 PIN: 71815 Screen share service will be provided. URL: http://ogsa.glance.net Session key: 0706 See more explanation: http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2004/06/msg00077.html 1) Early discussion (20 min) Note taker assignment Roll call Telecon minutes approval (June 29th) - https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13636?nav=1 Action Items status review (see the bottom of this email) Agenda bashing 2) July F2F update (Hiro 20 min) Andreas is asking a one-hour slot to discuss Geoffrey Fox's comments on OGSA and our replies to him. There is a tracker on gridforge. http://forge.gridforum.org/sf/tracker/do/listArtifacts/projects.ogsa-wg/tra… Dave and Jay are two people who should be present. This rules out Tuesday afternoon and Wednesday. Also Monday and Tuesday morning are already pretty full. So it looks like this may end up on Thursday after the EMS session. The alternative is a working lunch. 3) revised EMS Arch scenario document review (Andreas 20 min) > Andreas will also prepare a revised EMS Scenarios document for the > next call. 4) Wrap up (10 min) AOB <*NEXT CALL*> July 10 (Mon): Information model (Ellen and Fred) Roadmap 1.1 (Hiro, ChrisJ, and Jem) Security & BSP Public Comments review (Frank and Takuya) CDDLM & EMS (Jun and Hiro) July 13 (Thu): F2F prep (Tom and Hiro) July 17-20: F2F meeting in Chicago (ANL) Telecon schedule on wiki: https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.ogsa-wg/wiki/Telec… <*ACTION ITEMS*> > From June 29 call - Hiro will send out an email outlining the proposal and aim to confirm it on the next call - Hiro to ask Jun and Dejan to check the CDL documents - Hiro to also make any relevant updates to the Scenarios text - Jun/Hiro to also prepare the post-deployment BLAST CDL document - Andreas to upload the sequence diagrams to Gridforge. > From June 26 call - Hiro to confirm contact with (ex-)EGA TC > From June 12 call - Jun will correct the CDL XML examples written by Hiro. > From June 8 call - EMS team (Steven, Andreas, Donal) to review data staging scenario (section 5 of https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13591?nav=1 ) Bring to people's attention again at the next EMS call. (postpone until June 29) > From May 22 call - Jay will contact Platform (Chris Smith) and Condor (Miron Livny) to get feedback on pros / cons of the two rendering approaches (postpone until July 10) - Waiting for Jay to get additional material - Waiting for Marvin's proposal > From April 5 F2F meeting - Marvin to send e-mail that explains concerns on compliance suite by GGF & EGA. Deferred - Frank to write up and send to the list a one page summary of the authorization call-out proposal. (April 24 call, postpone until June 14) - Jay check and find out relatively small funding to Globus to develop document on their security work (April 6 F2F) - Hiro to schedule a discussion in the OGSA F2F after the converged specs drafts are released to discuss which sets of specs to use within OGSA. (April 4 F2F) -- Hiro Kishimoto

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No call on July 3rd
by Hiro Kishimoto 04 Jul '06

04 Jul '06

Hi all, Since July 4th is US holiday (Independence day), we have no call on July 3rd. Next call is July 6th Thursday. <*NEXT CALL*> July 6 (Thu): EMS scenarios (Steven and Andreas) July 10 (Mon): Information model (Ellen and Fred) Roadmap 1.1 (Hiro, ChrisJ, and Jem) Security & BSP Public Comments review (Frank and Takuya) CDDLM & EMS (Jun and Hiro) July 13 (Thu): F2F prep (Tom and Hiro) July 17-20: F2F meeting in Chicago (ANL) Enjoy your holiday! -- Hiro Kishimoto

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