- ogsa-hpcp-wg - lists.ogf.org

Friday (Sept 1) conf call will cover JSDL basic execution extension, interop plans
by Marvin Theimer 30 Aug '06

30 Aug '06

Hi; This Friday's HPC Profile call will be at the usual time and "place": * Friday, 9/1, at 10AM EDT (7AM PDT) * 1-866-500-6738 (from US & Canada) or 1-203-480-8000 * Passcode: 1157025 The tentative agenda is the following: * Cover the suggested changes to the JSDL basic execution extension specification. (We didn't have quorum at today's JSDL conf. call, so we are pushing discussion to the HPC Profile conf. call and will then be sending a "summary" email to the JSDL mailing list requesting comments.) * Discuss interop plans and compliance specifications. Marvin.

1 0

call for implementers of the OGSA HPC Profile
by Marty Humphrey 28 Aug '06

28 Aug '06

Folks, As chairs of the OGSA HPC Profile WG, Marvin Theimer and I think that we're getting sufficiently close to having a profile defined that we'd like to issue the call for implementers of the OGSA HPC Profile. While there is clearly some more work to be done on the current HPC Profile draft (and the BES spec), we believe that certain ambiguities in the current HPC Profile can only be identified and resolved when parties try to get their implementations to speak with each other. We seek implementers to (a) help solidify the profile through direct interoperability testing, and (b) help define the compliance suite. Therefore, we encourage people interested in prototyping an implementation to email me (Marty Humphrey). The current version of the HPC Profile spec can be found at: http://forge.ggf.org/sf/go/doc13736?nav=1 Thanks a bunch! Marty Marty Humphrey Assistant Professor Department of Computer Science University of Virginia

1 0

Minutes for OGSA HPC Profile telecon (Aug 25 2006)
by Marty Humphrey 26 Aug '06

26 Aug '06

OGSA HPC Profile Minutes - Fri Aug 25 2006 Participants: Marty Humphrey (University of Virginia) Marvin Theimer (MSFT) Glenn Wasson (University of Virginia) Michel Drescher (Fujitsu Europe) Minutes: Marty Humphrey * Summary of Actions: AI-HPCP-0825a: Everyone will re-read Donal's version of the HPC Profile Application in the JSDL section of Gridforge by Friday Sept 1 call. AI-HPCP-0825b: Check with BES doc and/or WG to determine the "final word" on issues of idempotency and subscriptions (and others). AI-HPCP-0825c: Marvin will suggest phrasing re: vectors to the email group for consensus. AI-HPCP-0825d: Marvin will mopdify HPC Profile doc to resolve Chris' comments, restrict to integer the total CPU count, total resource count and individual CPU count. AI-HPCP-0825e: Marty to send email to BES/JSDL/HPCP: "We are looking for prototype and interop participants." * Previous minutes: Approved * Review of Actions AI-HPCP-0818a: Donal Fellows to review HPC Profile Application. DONE. On Mon Aug-21, Donal Fellows uploaded a new version to the JSDL space in Gridforge. The main modification is a more comprehensive security section. Our group discussion in today's telecon on this subject resulted in AI-HPCP-0825a: AI-HPCP-0825a: "Everyone" will re-read it (in the JSDL section of Gridforge). On the Sept 1 call, we will determine (via vote) if we believe that it's ready for ratification via the JSDL group and the large OGF at large. In short, Michel suggested that we keep it in the HPCP gridforge section while it is being actively worked on and transition it to the JSDL section when it's ready for "normative radification". Because it's currently in the JSDL forge section, we will only "pull it back" to HPCP if, upon reading it, we decide (collectively) that it needs modifications (see AI-HPCP-0825a). AI-HPCP-0818b: Marvin Theimer will add paragraph to HPC Basic Profile stating: "all other elements of the JSDL 1.0 MAY appear but MAY also result in a 'not implemented' fault, but only the list here must be supported" DONE. This is discussed in this telecon, below. AI-HPCP-0818c: Marvin Theimer will add first draft of section 4 to HPC Basic Profile that restricts BES operations to singletons DONE. This is discussed in this telecon, below. * Go over changes to HPC Profile that Marvin sent out ----------------------------------------------------- Marvin: Before giving an overview of the modifications, there's an issue/question to BES guys: what about idempotency and subscriptions (and perhaps other issues)? That is, this was either in a previous version of the BES space *OR* explicitly mentioned to be included in a future version (but it's not mentioned in the current BES spec). We understand that this will appear as an option in the BES spec, but this has implications on the HPC Profile (e.g., we might like to restrict this and/or claim that such considerations are out-of-scope). Marty: Yes, we knew this going in -- that JSDL is "easier" in that it's fixed in stone, while BES is a moving target. This makes profiling difficult. AI-HPCP-0825b: Check with BES doc and/or WG to determine the "final word" on this issue. Marvin gives an overview of his modifications, beginning with the proposed text in the Intro paragrph to Section 3 (consensus: working is fine). Marvin described Mods to Section 4: changed the intro, and vectors must be exactly length 1. The group discussed at depth the issue of the treatment of vectors Initially, the group wanted to insert something akin to Michel's proposed test in email 8/25 Glenn: isn't there potential confusion: the client sends a vector of size greater than 1... what exactly does the service do? Does the service have a choice which one to choose? Marvin: BES needs to deal with this case, although there are two different classes of faults. There is a BES fault - "error in inputs (the following inputs -- activity IDs -- were unknown)" and an HPC Profile fault ("the vector is too large") Glenn: suggests that the base profile should say 1 (and return a size of 1) and greater than 1 is a fault; extension: here's how it maps differing size inputs to differing size outputs Marvin: asks for clarification: extension to BES, right? this idea that "I don't return exactly what was specified" is a BES concept Glenn: yes Michel: saying that you'll return a vector of size 1 retricts composability; instead, return a vector of the same size Marvin: Good point -- it may handle things of size greater than one -- if so, then it must return a vector of the same size. But it may fault. It MUST handle a vector of size 1. If it handles a vector of size larger than one, then it would publish an attribute indicating so. Michel suggests wording that the client "SHOULD" try to use a vector of size 1 but the group consensus is (while the intent is good) that this is not the best wording because it could be interpreted to make clients ONLY work in terms of vectors of size 1 -- this is not the intent and might restrict clients. AI-HPCP-0825c: Marvin will suggest phrasing and send it to the email group for consensus. Marty to make this into a tracker. this concluded the discussion of vectors. Marty: What about total CPU count? "non-exact" clearly has value, but it just seems too complicated for interop, for compliance Marvin: In addition, not all schedulers implement a range, so let's make it exact. Marty: Section 3.2.5.8. What is "total resource count"? Michel: this is for "tiling" - e.g., 5x10processes. Marty: Let's make this exact as well. Group consensus is that this is reasonable. Marvin: some of these issues can arise and be resolved during implementations as well Marty: what about Chris' comments? Re: RAM... "total physical memory" is certainly easier. Michel: JSDL had long discussions... it comes down to requirements and capabilities. Marvin: this must be clarified in the HPC profile. in our JSDL section, make these appear as requirements. That is, the phrasing of the text in the JSDL section of the HPC Profile should clearly indicate that they're *requirements* (not capabilities). In the BES section of the HPC profile, make the text clearly reflect that these are capabilities (not requirements). Michel: Section 3 of HPCP is clear. Section 4 needs clarification: if BES exposes this via JSDL terms, then we need to clarify that these are capabilities, which are static values. Marvin: 3.2.5.6 and 3.2.5.7 need to have clarifications changed. Glenn: we need to restrict to integer in the total CPU count, total resource count and individual CPU count Group consensus on this AI-HPCP-0825d: Marvin will resolve Chris' comments by making clarifications that these are requirements. In addition, Marvin will change the document to restrict to integer the total CPU count, total resource count and individual CPU count * Discuss prototyping and interop opportunities and next-steps. --------------------------------------------------------------- The group agreed that the HPC Profile document is reasonably close to completion, so it was suggested that we start developing prototypes and perform interop testing to further disambiguate the document (and start developing a compliance suite) Michel: this document should get into public comments first, so we should wait before creating implementations Marvin: I propose something slightly different... I propose that we put up for public comment and in parallel do implementations... this is primarily due to time contraints. Marty: Public comment is good, of course, but can we do anything to ensure that the vendors are engaged/committed? Marvin: I will send it directly to Sun, Altair, Condor, Globus, ESI, etc.... "please please review this carefully and contribute..." Marty: if we get Marvin's changes in the BES (and "security section"), we will SUSPEND development of the HPCP docment AI-HPCP-0825e: Marty to send email to BES/JSDL/HPCP: "We are looking for prototype and interop participants. We will be start to discuss compliance suite. This will be the agenda for next week's call. first round of interop will be attempted BEFORE ggf18 (exactly what? we're not sure). Two phases: phase 1: quick, phase 2: for interop after GGF18. Discussion fo extensions can be accomodated RIGHT NOW in parallel to this -- to keep the momentum going. Meeting concluded. Next call: Friday Sep 1 2006 7am Pacific time.

1 0

Next telecon call is tomorrow (Fri.) at 7AM PDT
by Marvin Theimer 25 Aug '06

25 Aug '06

Hi; The next HPC Profile telecon call will occur at the standard time and date, namely Friday at 10AM EDT, 7AM PDT. Toll-free number (from US & Canada): 1-866-500-6738 (from US & Canada) Toll number for rest of world: 1-203-480-8000 Passcode: 1157025 Agenda: * Go over changes to HPC Profile documents that Marvin will be sending out in a little while. * Discuss prototyping and interop opportunities and next-steps. Marvin.

2 1

Re: [ogsa-hpcp-wg] Version 0.1 of HPC Basic Profile document
by Ian Foster 25 Aug '06

25 Aug '06

Marvin: Regarding: "The only restriction on the BES base case specification is that for the GetActivitiesStatus, TerminateActivities, and GetJSDLDocuments operations the length of the input vector of activities parameter MUST be exactly 1." Is there a need to indicate the error that should be returned if the length is different than 1? Ian. At 10:49 PM 8/24/2006 -0700, Marvin Theimer wrote: >Hi; > >Enclosed is the revised version of the HPC Basic Profile document. I've >added the paragraph to section 3 making it explicit that JSDL documents >MAY include additional elements that a compliant system may respond to >with a fault and I've filled in section 4 on BES. > >Marvin. _______________________________________________________________ Ian Foster -- Weblog: http://ianfoster.typepad.com Computation Institute: www.ci.uchicago.edu & www.ci.anl.gov Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439 Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637 Tel: +1 630 252 4619 --- Globus Alliance: www.globus.org

2 2

Version 0.1 of HPC Basic Profile document
by Marvin Theimer 25 Aug '06

25 Aug '06

Hi; Enclosed is the revised version of the HPC Basic Profile document. I've added the paragraph to section 3 making it explicit that JSDL documents MAY include additional elements that a compliant system may respond to with a fault and I've filled in section 4 on BES. Marvin.

1 0

RE: [ogsa-hpcp-wg] Minutes for OGSA HPC Profile telecon (Aug 18 2006)
by Subramaniam, Ravi 24 Aug '06

24 Aug '06

Hi, In line with Marvin's comments, I think we had this discussion on vector versus singleton at the last F2F. We decided that HPC would have to address both aspects but approach the elemental case first and other situations would be done as extensions. Right? (I am sure we had this discussion since I remember distinctly raising the notion that singleton could also be a "vector of length 0". No doubt, a simple observation. But with implications in the architecture/profile. This led to the discussion (not resolved) as to what is elemental as per Marvin's summary below) Ravi -----Original Message----- From: owner-ogsa-hpcp-wg(a)ggf.org [mailto:owner-ogsa-hpcp-wg@ggf.org] On Behalf Of Marvin Theimer Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 4:25 AM To: Ian Foster; Steven Newhouse; humphrey(a)cs.virginia.edu Cc: ogsa-hpcp-wg(a)ggf.org Subject: RE: [ogsa-hpcp-wg] Minutes for OGSA HPC Profile telecon (Aug 18 2006) Hi; I totally agree that they're important. However, in keeping with having as simple an HPC Profile base case as possible, the HPC Profile will restrict its base case to only allowing singleton vectors. Whether we want to define the BES base case as non-vector operations and then immediately define a vector extension or whether we want to define the base case as vector operations with the restriction being put in the HPC Profile specification is something still to be determined. Marvin. ________________________________ From: owner-ogsa-hpcp-wg(a)ggf.org On Behalf Of Ian Foster Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:43 AM To: Steven Newhouse; humphrey(a)cs.virginia.edu Cc: ogsa-hpcp-wg(a)ggf.org Subject: Re: [ogsa-hpcp-wg] Minutes for OGSA HPC Profile telecon (Aug 18 2006) I am also concerned about this. We've never had vector operations in Globus, but Chris Smith argued eloquently for their importance in the early stages of BES, and so I became convinced that we need them. Ian. At 09:34 PM 8/20/2006 +0100, Steven Newhouse wrote: AI-HPCP-0818c: Marvin Theimer will add first draft of section 4 to HPC Basic Profile that restricts BES operations to singletons Could you expand on this... having the BES interface support operations on vectors of activities has been fairly important. Is this is what you are planning to remove? Is this a profile restriction or an edit on the main BES document? Steven -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Steven Newhouse Mob:+44(0)7920489420 Tel:+44(0)23 80598789 Director, Open Middleware Infrastructure Institute-UK (OMII-UK) c/o Suite 6005, Faraday Building (B21), Highfield Campus, Southampton University, Highfield, Southampton, SO17 1BJ, UK _______________________________________________________________ Ian Foster -- Weblog: http://ianfoster.typepad.com<http://ianfoster.typepad.com/> Computation Institute: www.ci.uchicago.edu<http://www.ci.uchicago.edu/> & www.ci.anl.gov<http://www.ci.anl.gov/> Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439 Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637 Tel: +1 630 252 4619 --- Globus Alliance: www.globus.org<http://www.globus.org/>

3 2

Telephone and agenda info for this Friday's HPC Profile telecon call
by Marvin Theimer 17 Aug '06

17 Aug '06

Hi; The first HPC Profile teleconference call will take place this Friday, August 18th at 10AM Eastern Daylight time (7AM PDT). Unfortunately I currently only have a teleconferencing option that provides a toll-free number for the USA and Canada. Everyone else will need to call in to the toll number. I'm exploring other options, but haven't found a satisfactory alternative yet. Toll-free number (from US & Canada): 1-866-500-6738 (from US & Canada) Toll number for rest of world: 1-203-480-8000 Passcode: 1157025 Agenda for telecon call: * Discuss concrete next-steps regarding the actual writing of an HPC Profile document, given the latest BES draft (v21) and the proposed material that Chris Smith uploaded to gridforge on Monday - HPC Profile Application Extension - JSDL extension for describing executables, etc. (https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13735?nav=1) - HPC Basic Profile - the skeleton of the profile document with the section for JSDL profiling filled in (for debate :-) ). https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13736?nav=1 Marvin.

1 0

Initial document drafts for HPC Profile
by Christopher Smith 14 Aug '06

14 Aug '06

Hi all, I've uploaded the following documents to gridforge: - HPC Profile Application Extension - JSDL extension for describing executables, etc. (https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13735?nav=1) - HPC Basic Profile - the skeleton of the profile document with the section for JSDL profiling filled in (for debate :-) ). https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc13736?nav=1 Please send any comments to the list to get the discussion going, and we'll use the trackers to record any issues that need to be addressed. By the way ... in future I will only use the ogsa-hpcp-wg(a)ggf.org mailing list for discussion of these documents, so please subscribe if you haven't already. Please follow up to ogsa-hpcp-wg. -- Chris

1 0

Weekly telecon calls will take place on Friday mornings
by Marvin Theimer 12 Aug '06

12 Aug '06

Hi; The people who voted all requested Friday or were indifferent, so Friday mornings it shall be. I'm thinking that 7AM West Coast time should be a time slot that would work for everyone. I will send out telephone information early next week. Marvin.

1 0