-----Original Message----- From: owner-drmaa-wg@ggf.org [mailto:owner-drmaa-wg@ggf.org] On Behalf Of Rajic, Hrabri Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:14 AM To: rbrobst@cadence.com; DRMAA Working Group Subject: RE: [drmaa-wg] Synchronizing Against Waited Jobs
There could be inconsistencies here.
Just imagine one implementation handles jobID from different earlier sessions and the other not. Upon a crash the application could try to submit few more tasks and synchronize on the previous and current session jobs leading to different behavior. Baring unusual scheduling it could be beneficial to ensure different DRMAA implementations
Looking from a different angle - if the routine does not return right away DRMAA_ERRNO_INVALID_JOB might not be reportable at all, because it is more beneficial to return the synchronization related info than DRMAA_ERRNO_INVALID_JOB. That way the user has no idea that the old or bogus job_ids are valid or not. Hrabri produce
the same behavior. The current spec does no says anything about immediate returns. Have to check if there is a global policy on that in the doc.
Similar situation applies if garbage collection happens rendering job_ids unrecognizable - this use case implies poor job management in the application.
Hrabri
-----Original Message----- From: owner-drmaa-wg@ggf.org [mailto:owner-drmaa-wg@ggf.org] On Behalf Of Roger Brobst Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:37 AM To: DRMAA Working Group Subject: RE: [drmaa-wg] Synchronizing Against Waited Jobs
If any of the jobIDs provided to drmaa_synchronize are unrecognized, DRMAA_ERRNO_INVALID_JOB should be returned; no action should be taken upon any recognized jobIDs.
-Roger
Roger,
Do you advocate DRMAA returns immediately with DRMAA_ERRNO_INVALID_JOB or after it waited for the remaining legitimate jobs to finish?
Hrabri
-----Original Message----- From: owner-drmaa-wg@ggf.org [mailto:owner-drmaa-wg@ggf.org] On Behalf Of Roger Brobst Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:16 AM To: DRMAA Working Group Subject: Re: [drmaa-wg] Synchronizing Against Waited Jobs
My opinion ...
Because a DRMAA implementation is not required to retain information about jobs which have been reaped, drmaa_synchronize should not be required to distinguish between non-existant and reaped jobs.
A drmaa_synchronize implementation should return DRMAA_ERRNO_INVALID_JOB if a provided jobID is unrecognized.
If a drmaa_synchronize implementation successfully validates a jobID for a reaped job, it may return DRMAA_ERRNO_SUCCESS.
-Roger
So, the only person who hasn't weighed in is Roger. Care to offer an opinion?
Daniel
Peter Troeger wrote On 10/21/05 10:21,:
I support the argumentation of Hrabri. DRMAA introduced "dispose=true" in the interface, so resource consumption seems to be an issue. If a job was subject to drmaa_wait(), and the data was disposed, nothing should be left in memory about this job. IMHO the job becomes completely unknown to the library after this point.
BTW, this holds also for the current Condor DRMAA implementation. It is also reasoned by the behavior of the underlying Condor system. If a job was finished, only the log files can tell you what happened. The Condor DRMAA library uses such a log file for each job, and if you execute drmaa_wait(dispose=true), the log file and in-memory structures for
job are removed. Calling drmaa_synchronize() after this results in DRMAA_ERRNO_INVALID_JOB.
Things might be clearer if we would have an explicit drmaa_dispose_job() function.
Regards, Peter.
Rajic, Hrabri schrieb:
>My wig is in dry cleaning. Nevertheless, here is my short take on
> > >If an implementation has handy job_id's it could conveniently make good >determination which jobs are invalid (do not exist) and throw >DRMAA_ERRNO_INVALID_JOB. IMHO, it is not a big deal if the routine >gives imprecise diagnostics if it is forced to do memory garbage >collection earlier. Quality of implementation term comes to mind, but >that quality could come at the expense of being memory hog that in turn >could lead to paging - quite dubious. >See, the implementations might differently handle jobs that did not come > > >from the current session, so we could not be precise here either.
>The important thing for the user is to synchronize i.e. block
> > >from continuing if there are running remote jobs.
> >Dispose = true helps get rid of the rusage info to free DRMAA >implementations of heavy memory requirements when it matters, so keeping >all the past job_ids for providing precise exit errors runs contrary to >the goal of lessening memory requirements in the same routine. > >My 2 pfennigs, > >Hrabri > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-drmaa-wg@ggf.org [mailto:owner-drmaa-wg@ggf.org] On Behalf >> >> >> >> >Of > > > > >>Daniel Templeton >>Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:37 AM >>To: DRMAA Working Group >>Subject: [drmaa-wg] Synchronizing Against Waited Jobs >> >>We have found a bug in the SGE DRMAA implementation, (I know! It's >>shocking!) but Andreas and I can't agree on what the fix should be. >> >> >> >> >The > > > > >>issue is that in the current implementation, synchronizing against jobs >>that did not come from the current session returns DRMAA_ERRNO_SUCCESS. >>The part about which we disagree is what should happen when >>synchronizing against jobs that are from the current session, but
In a previous e-mail, Daniel Templeton wrote: the this. program that
>>have already ended and have already had drmaa_wait() (or >>drmaa_synchronize() with dispose=true) called against them. >> >>My stance is that one can extrapolate from the drmaa_wait() function >>that there is no difference between jobs which don't exist (at all or >> >> >> >> >in > > > > >>the current session) and jobs whose exit information has been disposed >>(via drmaa_wait() or drmaa_synchronize()). Therefore, calling >>drmaa_synchronize() on jobs which have already had drmaa_wait() called >>against them should return DRMAA_ERRNO_INVALID_JOB. >> >>Andreas holds that it can be inferred from the lack of the above >>statement in the spec, that drmaa_synchronize() handles such jobs >>differently from drmaa_wait(). Because drmaa_synchronize() does not >>need the jobs' exit information to succeed, it should be able to >> >> >> >> >operate > > > > >>on jobs whose exit information has already been disposed. Therefore, >>calling drmaa_synchronize() on jobs which have already had drmaa_wait() >>called against them should return DRMAA_ERRNO_SUCCESS. >> >>I can agree that Andreas' position makes theoretical sense, but I >>believe it runs contrary to the stated goal of minimizing the >>requirements on the implementing DRMS. In order to implement a >>drmaa_synchronize() that can distinguish between job's that have been >>disposed and jobs that never existed, the DRMAA implementation must >> >> >> >> >keep > > > > >>a list of the ids of every job that has ever been submitted in
>>current session, and with every drmaa_synchronize() call, the
In a previous e-mail, Rajic, Hrabri wrote: the list
>>be searched to validate the synchronize id list. And for what? >>DRMAA_JOB_IDS_ALL covers every case I can think of where the behavior >>Andreas described would be useful. To me, it sounds like a lot of extra >>work for the DRMAA implementation with no tangible benefit. >> >>On what Andreas and I can agree is that if we decide he is right, we >>will close the bug as "won't fix" because the fix will be worse
>> >> >> >> >the > > > > >>bug. In any case, we should probably have a tracker item to make
must than the
>>final decision explicit in the spec. >> >>What say you, oh, wise ones? >> >>Daniel >> >>-- >>*************************************************** >>* Daniel Templeton ERGB01 x60220 * >>* Staff Engineer, Sun N1 Grid Engine * >>*************************************************** >>* "So let the sunshine in. Face it with a grin. * >>* Smilers never lose, and frowners never win." * >>* -Let the Sunshine In, Pebbles Flintstone * >>*************************************************** >> >> >> >> >> > > > >
-- *************************************************** * Daniel Templeton ERGB01 x60220 * * Staff Engineer, Sun N1 Grid Engine * *************************************************** * "So let the sunshine in. Face it with a grin. * * Smilers never lose, and frowners never win." * * -Let the Sunshine In, Pebbles Flintstone * ***************************************************
-- Roger Brobst Cadence Design Systems Internet: rBrobst@cadence.com 555 River Oaks Parkway MS-1B1 Voice: (408)894-3422 San Jose, CA 95134