output value calc
New draft of output value calc stuff. based on prior review (last week) which simplified and clarified things somewhat. Examples are a simple and a complex type, with the same context - fits in a box that is rounded up in size to next multiple of 4 bytes. There's some material in here also about bit strings and use of dfdl:length measured in bits. This was to cover truncation fully. It is not a comprehensive treatment of bit fields though. All mention of variables and/or parameters is gone. See what you think. ....mike Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL WG Co-Chair | CTO | Oco, Inc. Tel: 781-810-2125 | 100 Fifth Ave., 4th Floor, Waltham MA 02451 | mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com
Mike Comments from our review in attached doc Alan Powell MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley, Winchester, SO21 2JN, England Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073 Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898 From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 19/06/2009 04:13 Subject: [DFDL-WG] output value calc New draft of output value calc stuff. based on prior review (last week) which simplified and clarified things somewhat. Examples are a simple and a complex type, with the same context - fits in a box that is rounded up in size to next multiple of 4 bytes. There's some material in here also about bit strings and use of dfdl:length measured in bits. This was to cover truncation fully. It is not a comprehensive treatment of bit fields though. All mention of variables and/or parameters is gone. See what you think. ....mike Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL WG Co-Chair | CTO | Oco, Inc. Tel: 781-810-2125 | 100 Fifth Ave., 4th Floor, Waltham MA 02451 | mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com[attachment "outputValueCalc-and-variables-003.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
I've viewed your comments and will incorporate them and resubmit. One question is about complex types and text representation. You mentioned we don't allow lengthKind="characters" on complex types. Seems to me if representation="text" it is quite likely that everything is given in lengthUnits="characters". I'm not sure why not, though I have vague recollection of this restriction being discussed. Can you remind me? ...mike On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Alan Powell <alan_powell@uk.ibm.com> wrote:
Mike
Comments from our review in attached doc
Alan Powell
MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley, Winchester, SO21 2JN, England Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073 Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898
From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 19/06/2009 04:13 Subject: [DFDL-WG] output value calc ------------------------------
New draft of output value calc stuff. based on prior review (last week) which simplified and clarified things somewhat.
Examples are a simple and a complex type, with the same context - fits in a box that is rounded up in size to next multiple of 4 bytes.
There's some material in here also about bit strings and use of dfdl:length measured in bits. This was to cover truncation fully. It is not a comprehensive treatment of bit fields though.
All mention of variables and/or parameters is gone.
See what you think.
....mike
Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL WG Co-Chair | CTO | Oco, Inc. Tel: 781-810-2125 | 100 Fifth Ave., 4th Floor, Waltham MA 02451 |* * *mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com* <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com>*[attachment "outputValueCalc-and-variables-003.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] *-- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg
------------------------------
* *
*Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU *
Mike We originally decided that lengthUnit=characters wasn't allowed on sequence and choice because of complications with encodings etc. Then when we removed lengthKind from sequence and choice it moved up to the complex element. Remember that this is only to support the box use case and it seems unlikely you would specify the size of the box in characters. Alan Powell MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley, Winchester, SO21 2JN, England Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073 Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898 From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> To: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 23/06/2009 19:07 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] output value calc I've viewed your comments and will incorporate them and resubmit. One question is about complex types and text representation. You mentioned we don't allow lengthKind="characters" on complex types. Seems to me if representation="text" it is quite likely that everything is given in lengthUnits="characters". I'm not sure why not, though I have vague recollection of this restriction being discussed. Can you remind me? ...mike On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Alan Powell <alan_powell@uk.ibm.com> wrote: Mike Comments from our review in attached doc Alan Powell MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley, Winchester, SO21 2JN, England Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073 Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898 From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 19/06/2009 04:13 Subject: [DFDL-WG] output value calc New draft of output value calc stuff. based on prior review (last week) which simplified and clarified things somewhat. Examples are a simple and a complex type, with the same context - fits in a box that is rounded up in size to next multiple of 4 bytes. There's some material in here also about bit strings and use of dfdl:length measured in bits. This was to cover truncation fully. It is not a comprehensive treatment of bit fields though. All mention of variables and/or parameters is gone. See what you think. ....mike Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL WG Co-Chair | CTO | Oco, Inc. Tel: 781-810-2125 | 100 Fifth Ave., 4th Floor, Waltham MA 02451 | mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com[attachment "outputValueCalc-and-variables-003.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
Alan Just to be clear - the box use case actually covers three sub-cases. 1) lengthKind="explicit" and length is hard-coded 2) lengthKind="explicit" and length is carried earlier in the data 3) lengthKind="prefix" Regards Steve Hanson Programming Model Architect WebSphere Message Brokers Hursley, UK Internet: smh@uk.ibm.com Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848 Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org 24/06/2009 09:09 To Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> cc dfdl-wg@ogf.org Subject Re: [DFDL-WG] output value calc Mike We originally decided that lengthUnit=characters wasn't allowed on sequence and choice because of complications with encodings etc. Then when we removed lengthKind from sequence and choice it moved up to the complex element. Remember that this is only to support the box use case and it seems unlikely you would specify the size of the box in characters. Alan Powell MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley, Winchester, SO21 2JN, England Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073 Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898 From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> To: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 23/06/2009 19:07 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] output value calc I've viewed your comments and will incorporate them and resubmit. One question is about complex types and text representation. You mentioned we don't allow lengthKind="characters" on complex types. Seems to me if representation="text" it is quite likely that everything is given in lengthUnits="characters". I'm not sure why not, though I have vague recollection of this restriction being discussed. Can you remind me? ...mike On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Alan Powell <alan_powell@uk.ibm.com> wrote: Mike Comments from our review in attached doc Alan Powell MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley, Winchester, SO21 2JN, England Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073 Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898 From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 19/06/2009 04:13 Subject: [DFDL-WG] output value calc New draft of output value calc stuff. based on prior review (last week) which simplified and clarified things somewhat. Examples are a simple and a complex type, with the same context - fits in a box that is rounded up in size to next multiple of 4 bytes. There's some material in here also about bit strings and use of dfdl:length measured in bits. This was to cover truncation fully. It is not a comprehensive treatment of bit fields though. All mention of variables and/or parameters is gone. See what you think. ....mike Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL WG Co-Chair | CTO | Oco, Inc. Tel: 781-810-2125 | 100 Fifth Ave., 4th Floor, Waltham MA 02451 | mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com[attachment "outputValueCalc-and-variables-003.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
Alan et al, I have incorporated the feedback to the outputValueCalc document. Version 004 is attached. I introduced new terminology. Specified length vs. Scanned length. A specified length is prefix, implicit or explicit. And also endOfParent when the parent recursively has specified length. The other cases are scanned length. These may not be the best names for these concepts, but I wanted to enumerate all the various lengthKind values that result in a potential for padding/filling/truncation only once. There is a new action item coming out of this work to specify bit-field behavior. E.g., example of a vector of 14-bit fields stored back-to-back, and how that interacts with byteOrder big or little endian. (Alternatively, we could punt on lengthUnits="bits" entirely for DFDL v1.0, and similarly alignmentUnits="bits". I don't like it, but it is a very separable thing.) ...mike On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Steve Hanson <smh@uk.ibm.com> wrote:
Alan
Just to be clear - the box use case actually covers three sub-cases.
1) lengthKind="explicit" and length is hard-coded 2) lengthKind="explicit" and length is carried earlier in the data 3) lengthKind="prefix"
Regards
Steve Hanson Programming Model Architect WebSphere Message Brokers Hursley, UK Internet: smh@uk.ibm.com Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848
*Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB* Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org
24/06/2009 09:09 To Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> cc dfdl-wg@ogf.org Subject Re: [DFDL-WG] output value calc
Mike
We originally decided that lengthUnit=characters wasn't allowed on sequence and choice because of complications with encodings etc. Then when we removed lengthKind from sequence and choice it moved up to the complex element. Remember that this is only to support the box use case and it seems unlikely you would specify the size of the box in characters.
Alan Powell
MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley, Winchester, SO21 2JN, England Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073 Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898
From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> To: Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 23/06/2009 19:07 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] output value calc
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I've viewed your comments and will incorporate them and resubmit.
One question is about complex types and text representation.
You mentioned we don't allow lengthKind="characters" on complex types. Seems to me if representation="text" it is quite likely that everything is given in lengthUnits="characters".
I'm not sure why not, though I have vague recollection of this restriction being discussed. Can you remind me?
...mike
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Alan Powell <*alan_powell@uk.ibm.com*<alan_powell@uk.ibm.com>> wrote:
Mike
Comments from our review in attached doc
Alan Powell
MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley, Winchester, SO21 2JN, England Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: *alan_powell@uk.ibm.com*<alan_powell@uk.ibm.com> Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073 Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898
From: Mike Beckerle <*mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com*<mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com>
To: *dfdl-wg@ogf.org* <dfdl-wg@ogf.org> Date: 19/06/2009 04:13 Subject: [DFDL-WG] output value calc
------------------------------
New draft of output value calc stuff. based on prior review (last week) which simplified and clarified things somewhat.
Examples are a simple and a complex type, with the same context - fits in a box that is rounded up in size to next multiple of 4 bytes.
There's some material in here also about bit strings and use of dfdl:length measured in bits. This was to cover truncation fully. It is not a comprehensive treatment of bit fields though.
All mention of variables and/or parameters is gone.
See what you think.
....mike
Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL WG Co-Chair | CTO | Oco, Inc. Tel: 781-810-2125 | 100 Fifth Ave., 4th Floor, Waltham MA 02451 | * **mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com* <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com>*[attachment "outputValueCalc-and-variables-003.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] *-- dfdl-wg mailing list *dfdl-wg@ogf.org* <dfdl-wg@ogf.org> *http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg*<http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg>
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*Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU *
------------------------------ * *
*Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU *
-- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg
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* *
*Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU *
participants (3)
-
Alan Powell -
Mike Beckerle -
Steve Hanson