Re: [DFDL-WG] DFDL: Minutes from OGF WG call, 05 Octobet 2008

7 Nov 2008

      Suman

We discussed the options on the call and decided that forcing multiple 
formats statement on every element (which is what WMB does) was too 
cumbersome.

Selectors do not change inheritance rules at all so your questions are the 
same whether selectors are used or not. 
We felt the selectors rule were fairly simple and once it has been decided 
which format block to use normal scoping rules apply.

Alan Powell

 MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley,  Winchester, SO21 2JN, England
 Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM     email: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com 
 Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073                  Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898

From:
Suman Kalia <kalia@ca.ibm.com>
To:
Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB
Cc:
dfdl-wg@ogf.org, dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org
Date:
06/11/2008 23:21
Subject:
Re: [DFDL-WG] DFDL: Minutes from OGF WG call, 05 Octobet 2008
...
...
2. Selectors
...
...
Discussed Suman's suggestion from last weeks call. 
- If a selector is supplied, then only dfdl:format blocks matching that 
selector are used 
- If a selector is not supplied, then only dfdl:format blocks without a 
selector are used
...
...
Decided this is too restrictive as it requires a format block for each 
selector on every item even if they define the same properties so stayed 
with previous decision
...
...
- If selector is supplied and matches one of the dfdl:format blocks 
then that block is used. 
- Otherwise the dfdl:format block with no selector is used.
...
...
Reiterated that selectors are qnames.
Alan - I think it will add more complexity and it will be difficult for 
the user to comprehend the exact set of annotations that would be 
applicable on the element.  This becomes more complicated when you take 
inheritance of annotations into account.  Say grandparent A has annotation 
with selector xyz , parent  B & its child C has annotation with no 
selector.  When processing for selector xyz,  which annotations will be 
applicable for child C - will it inherit annotations from grandparent A 
(which has same selector) or  parent B (which has annotation with no 
selector specified) ?.   What if grand child C had no dfdl annotation 
specified ? 

Suman Kalia
IBM Toronto Lab
WMB Toolkit Architect and Development Lead
WebSphere Business Integration Application Connectivity Tools 
Tel : 905-413-3923  T/L  969-3923
Fax : 905-413-4850 T/L  969-4850
Internet ID : kalia@ca.ibm.com 

From: 
Alan Powell <alan_powell@uk.ibm.com> 
To: 
dfdl-wg@ogf.org 
Date: 
11/06/2008 11:55 AM 
Subject: 
[DFDL-WG] DFDL: Minutes from OGF WG call, 05 Octobet 2008

Open Grid Forum: Data Format Description Language Working Group

Weekly Working Group Conference Call
13:00 GMT, 5 November 2008

Attendees 

Steve Hanson (IBM) 
Mike Beckerle(Oco) 
Alan Powell (IBM) 

1. End Of Parent 
Discussed last proposal and subsequent emails. 

Decided: 
Only last element in a sequence can have lenghtkind=EndOfParent 
Sequence can also have lengthKind=EndOfParent - means take length from 
parent sequence. 
LengthKind=endOfParent on outermost sequence means end of data stream. So 
for the last field in a definition to extend to the end of the data stream 
the element has lengthKind="endOfParent" and the enclosing sequence,  and 
all parent sequences including outermost also have 
lengthKind="endOfParent" 

Examples 

1. Last element to end of data stream 
  <xsd:sequence> 
   <xsd:annotation> 
     <xsd:appinfo source="http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> 
       <dfdl:format lengthKind="endOfParent" /> 
     </xsd:appinfo> 
   </xsd:annotation> 

   <xs:element name="mandt" type="xsd:string"/> 
      <xsd:annotation> 
       <xsd:appinfo source="http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> 
         <dfdl:format lengthKind="explicit" length="3"/> 
       </xsd:appinfo> 
     </xsd:annotation> 
   </xsd:element> 
   .... 
   <xs:element name="last" type="xsd:string"/> 
     <xsd:annotation> 
       <xsd:appinfo source="http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> 
          <dfdl:format lengthKind="endOfParent"/> 
        </xsd:appinfo> 
     </xsd:annotation> 
   </xsd:element> 
</xsd:sequence> 

2. last element to fixed length container 

  <xsd:sequence> 
   <xsd:annotation> 
     <xsd:appinfo source="http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> 
       <dfdl:format lengthKind="explicit" length="100" /> 
     </xsd:appinfo> 
   </xsd:annotation> 

   <xs:element name="mandt" type="xsd:string"/> 
      <xsd:annotation> 
       <xsd:appinfo source="http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> 
         <dfdl:format lengthKind="explicit" length="3"/> 
       </xsd:appinfo> 
     </xsd:annotation> 
   </xsd:element> 
   .... 
   <xs:element name="last" type="xsd:string"/> 
     <xsd:annotation> 
       <xsd:appinfo source="http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> 
          <dfdl:format lengthKind="endOfParent"/> 
        </xsd:appinfo> 
     </xsd:annotation> 
   </xsd:element> 
</xsd:sequence> 

3. last element to container terminator 

  <xsd:sequence> 
   <xsd:annotation> 
     <xsd:appinfo source="http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> 
       <dfdl:format lengthKind="delimited" terminator="$" /> 
     </xsd:appinfo> 
   </xsd:annotation> 

   <xs:element name="mandt" type="xsd:string"/> 
      <xsd:annotation> 
       <xsd:appinfo source="http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> 
         <dfdl:format lengthKind="explicit" length="3"/> 
       </xsd:appinfo> 
     </xsd:annotation> 
   </xsd:element> 
   .... 
   <xs:element name="last" type="xsd:string"/> 
     <xsd:annotation> 
       <xsd:appinfo source="http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> 
          <dfdl:format lengthKind="endOfParent"/> 
        </xsd:appinfo> 
     </xsd:annotation> 
   </xsd:element> 
</xsd:sequence> 

Isn't this the same as "last " with lengthKind = "delimited"? 

2. Selectors 

Discussed Suman's suggestion from last weeks call. 
- If a selector is supplied, then only dfdl:format blocks matching that 
selector are used 
- If a selector is not supplied, then only dfdl:format blocks without a 
selector are used 

Decided this is too restrictive as it requires a format block for each 
selector on every item even if they define the same properties so stayed 
with previous decision 

- If selector is supplied and matches one of the dfdl:format blocks then 
that block is used. 
- Otherwise the dfdl:format block with no selector is used. 

Reiterated that selectors are qnames. 

3. Moving to XSD 1.1 as base for DFDL 

Benfits: 
Can use xsd:all instead of introducing unordered sequences. 
weakened wildcard rules. 

Agreed in principle. MB to investigate to look at the other changes in 
Schema 1.1 to check effect on other dfdl functions and restrictions 

4. Not dicussed 

SCD spec changes 
Multi-level semntics 

2. AOB 
Next call 12 November 

Meeting closed, 13:10 GMT 
Actions raised at this meeting 
No
Action 
023
MB: Review Schema 1.1 

Current Actions: 
No
Action 
003
AP: Update spec from WTX document 
13/8:  All resolved issues have been added to spec. Remaining unresolved 
items need discussion 
10/9: Alan will pull out the remaining unresolved items and circulate for 
discussion next week 
17/9: Doc distributed and partially discussed 
15/10: All updateds complete except minlength 
22/10: No update 
004
MB: Mike will also author a new section in response to comments from Sandy 
Gao and Suman Kalia, explicitly connecting syntax with DFDL semantics 
16/7: no progress 
10/9: Mike not convinced this is necessary. Steve to talk to Sandy to see 
if it is needed for any IBM implementation that extends the existing XML 
parsing framework 
15/10: SH to talk to Sandy 
22/10: SH needs reminding of what this issue is about 
007
AP: enum + expression wording 
13/8: no progress 
10/9: No update 
17/9: No update 
22/10: No update 
012
AP/SH: Update decimalCalendarScheme 
10/9: Not allocated yet 
17/9: No update 
24/9: Add calendar binary formats to actions 
22/10: No progress 
014
SH: Use cases for lengthKind pattern on binary fields. 
10/9: Not done 
17/9: No update 
22/10: SH not sure he can provide a concrete use case 
016
AP: Add hidden changes to spec 
22/10: No update 
017
All: Review EndOfData changes 
22/10: SH response mailed to Mike 
018
AP: Agree padding to minimum length 
15/10: Needs documenting 
22/10: No update 
019
AP: Document defineTextNumber etc 
22/10: No update 
020
SH: Resolve packedDecimalSignCodes behaviour depends on NumberCheckPolicy 
22/10: No progress 
021
AP: Document textNumberRepresenation and binaryNumberRepresentation 
22/10: No update 
022
SH: Talk to Sandy Gao to assess use of schema 1.1 
22/10: Mail sent to Sandy
Closed actions: 

033 Work items: 
No
Item 
001
String XML type (Ian P) - Apr 30, 2008 
002
Escape schemes (Ian P) - Apr 30, 2008 
003
Variables - ??, 2008 (Mike) 
004
Selectors (Suman/Alan) - Apr 30, 2008 
005
Improvements on property descriptions - ??, 2008 (All - split TBD) 
006
Envelopes and Payloads (Steve) - Apr 30, 2008 
007
(from draft 32) valueCalc (Mike) - ??, 2008 *Mostly complete* 
008
(from draft 32) Property precedence for writing (Steve) - *complete but 
under review* 
009
(from draft 32) Variable markup (Steve) - Mar 31, 2008 *proposal needs 
writing up* 
010
(from draft 32) Assertions, discriminators and choice, including 
discussion of timing option (Suman) - Mar 31, 2008 * in progress * 
011
(from draft 32) How speculative parsing works (combining choice and 
variable-occurence - currently these are separate) ??, 2008 (IBM) * in 
progress * 
012
(from draft 32) Reordering the properties discussion: move representation 
earlier, improve flow of topics ??, 2008 (Alan) * not started * 
013
(from F2F) New scoping rules 
014
(from F2F) Occurs, OccurSeparator changes 
015
(from F2F) choices and Output (Mike) 
016
(from F2F) xpath forward references (Alan) *complete* 
017
(IBM WTX review) Minor agreed updates (Alan) *complete* 
018
(IBM WTX review) Review generateNewLine (Alan) *complete* 
020
(IBM WTX review) Special value for zero seen eg 'zero'. (Steve) 
021
(IBM WTX review) 'EndOfData' changes (Alan) 
022
(IBM WTX review) Unresolvable choices - infoset changes *complete* 
023
(IBM WTX review) separatorKind=?prefix? ?infix? or ?postfix? (Alan) 
024
(IBM WTX review)  StopValue clarification (Alan)   
025
Augmented infoset and unparsing (Alan)   
026
Hidden changes 
027
Add decimal supp to main spec 
028
Remove extended floats

Alan Powell

MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley,  Winchester, SO21 2JN, England
Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM     email: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com 
Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073                  Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898

Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 
741598. 
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU 

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741598. 
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