- dfdl-wg - lists.ogf.org

DFDL call tomorrow
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 16 May '07

16 May '07

Hi all, This is usual reminder of the usual call tomorrow. I am on vacation so I will not be there. Thanks, Martin *Dial-in Number: 8777602813 *Dial-in Toll Number: 7706595626 *Conference Code: 95697 Helpful Keypad Commands: * *0 Operator Assistance - conference * 00 Operator Assistance - individual * *6 / #6 Mute/Unmute - individual Dr. Martin Westhead Technical Lead, Assured Networks Group, Milpitas, CA| westhead(a)avaya.com |+1 408-577-7810 AVAYA

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Notes from 2007-05-09 WG call.
by Mike Beckerle 09 May '07

09 May '07

Notes from DFDL call 2007-05-09 Mike Beckerle Simon Parker Martin Westhead Suman Kalia Geoff Judd Steve Hanson Alan Powell Notes: Simon Parker of PolarLake was introduced. Welcome Simon! Report from OGF 20 approximately 12 attendees at session Notes from session are posted/sent by email. We discussed the notes: pointers - not core for v1.0, . A supplement would be ok. multi-dim arrays - pointed out that we can do these via nesting, though there are some drawbacks about storage order variation. support for versioning - we agreed that we want to be compatible with versioning approaches of DFDL schemas by users, but not address the problem in the standard. It's not different for DFDL from XML Schema. we need to revisit "selectors" topic since these could be used to mix versions of a format into the same DFDL schema. ISO CGM - common graphics metafile - suggested as a use case. New floating point number formats, e..g., small ones like 14 bit ones used in graphics and such. We discussed whether there should be special DFDL-based annotations that DFDL processors would provide visibility to for applications. Alternative is "just look for the annotation on the schema", i.e., leave it up to the applications to reach into the schema themselves. DFDL stays out of this. 2nd point was that spec. needs to specify how various supported floating point formats are approximated when converted to the XML types float and double. We decided that advanced floating point could be a supplement. Validation: decided to mention in spec that streaming validation is an allowed behavior for DFDL processors, and that if XML-schema or schematron validation is performed by a DFDL processor that it must be consistent with an XML Schema validator operating on an XML document as described by the implied XML schema for the DFDL schema. Issue raised - need "arbitrary whitespace" as delmiter. How to specify. Issue raised - need arbitrary sized binary integer (or even decimal), Bignums. Financial communities use these. Selectors - need to revisit in a future call. Mike Beckerle STSM, Architect, Scalable Computing IBM Software Group Information Platform and Solutions Westborough, MA 01581 direct: voice and FAX 508-599-7148 assistant: Pam Riordan priordan(a)us.ibm.com 508-599-7046

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Re: [DFDL-WG] DFDL call now
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 09 May '07

09 May '07

Arghh - late reminder and the wrong call details. Please use this bridge: *Dial-in Number: 8777602813 *Dial-in Toll Number: 7706595626 *Conference Code: 95697 Helpful Keypad Commands: * *0 Operator Assistance - conference * 00 Operator Assistance - individual * *6 / #6 Mute/Unmute - individual Dr. Martin Westhead Technical Lead, Assured Networks Group, Milpitas, CA| westhead(a)avaya.com |+1 408-577-7810 AVAYA

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DFDL call now
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 09 May '07

09 May '07

Sorry for the late reminder, call details below. Dr. Martin Westhead Technical Lead, Assured Networks Group, Milpitas, CA| westhead(a)avaya.com |+1 408-577-7810 AVAYA _____ PASSCODE INFORMATION: Passcode: 1397733 ACCESS NUMBERS ------------------------------------ Click http://www.mymeetings.com/audioconferencing/globalAccessFAQ.php for information on specific country access dialing. Country Toll Numbers Freephone/Toll Free Number AUSTRIA 43-1-92-86-505 BELGIUM 32-1-150-0313 DENMARK 45-7014-0241 FRANCE PARIS: 33-1-70-75-25-34 080-563-9912 GERMANY 49-69-2222-20597 0800-101-6628 IRELAND 353-1-247-5273 ITALY 39-02-3601-0918 LUXEMBOURG 352-27-000-1319 NETHERLANDS 31-20-718-8531 SPAIN 34-91-414-63-07 800-098-195 SWEDEN 46-8-505-78-547 SWITZERLAND 41-44-580-4388 0800-001-371 UNITED KINGDOM LONDON: 44-20-7019-0801 0800-279-9191 USA 866-253-5305 Restrictions may exist when accessing freephone/toll free numbers using a mobile telephone. Country Freephone numbers cannot be used outside of the country listed. Please provide an International Country toll number to your participants as a back-up in the event of any Freephone restrictions being encountered. To learn more about how to dial a Global Access number go to https://www.mymeetings.com/audioconferencing/global_access.php Dr. Martin Westhead Technical Lead, Assured Networks Group, Milpitas, CA| westhead(a)avaya.com |+1 408-577-7810 AVAYA

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DFDL call tomorrow 9am PST
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 02 May '07

02 May '07

Sorry, I am on a training course tomorrow and will not be able to make it... PASSCODE INFORMATION: Passcode: 1397733 ACCESS NUMBERS ------------------------------------ Click http://www.mymeetings.com/audioconferencing/globalAccessFAQ.php for information on specific country access dialing. Country Toll Numbers Freephone/Toll Free Number AUSTRIA 43-1-92-86-505 BELGIUM 32-1-150-0313 DENMARK 45-7014-0241 FRANCE PARIS: 33-1-70-75-25-34 080-563-9912 GERMANY 49-69-2222-20597 0800-101-6628 IRELAND 353-1-247-5273 ITALY 39-02-3601-0918 LUXEMBOURG 352-27-000-1319 NETHERLANDS 31-20-718-8531 SPAIN 34-91-414-63-07 800-098-195 SWEDEN 46-8-505-78-547 SWITZERLAND 41-44-580-4388 0800-001-371 UNITED KINGDOM LONDON: 44-20-7019-0801 0800-279-9191 USA 866-253-5305 Restrictions may exist when accessing freephone/toll free numbers using a mobile telephone. Country Freephone numbers cannot be used outside of the country listed. Please provide an International Country toll number to your participants as a back-up in the event of any Freephone restrictions being encountered. To learn more about how to dial a Global Access number go to https://www.mymeetings.com/audioconferencing/global_access.php Dr. Martin Westhead Technical Lead, Assured Networks Group, Milpitas, CA| westhead(a)avaya.com |+1 408-577-7810 AVAYA

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review items on draft v017
by Mike Beckerle 25 Apr '07

25 Apr '07

This is section by section review I've receieved about version 017 from Steve, Geoff and Alan Powell (IBM), concentrating on the semantics sections (11, 12, 18). 10.1. Table missing simple type definition. (Also, complex type should be "definition" not "declaration" in schema speak). 11.4. Confusion around the description of the Root Value Approximation. Not 100% clear what this is trying to convey. Can it be described as being the equivalent of a DOM tree, built up as we parse our way through the bits? Also, could the description be moved into its own 11.x section? 11.4.2. Question the use of "memory" as the name for the variables tuple values - sounded too implementation like. 11.4.2. Why is it necessary to return memory as an output value and pass the memory separately from the context? Put another way, can we treat variables the same as other properties? 11.4.3.1. content length - should be end minus start 11.4.3.1. Does the last sentence just mean to refer to non-dimensioned, non-optional elements? 11.4.3.2. "Dynamic extent" & "dynamic scope" - names not intuitive - should "representation" be in their somewhere? Also "scope" being re-used ? 12. Format nit: Numbered lists not resetting. 12.3. Ruling out recursion for DFDL v1.0 is probably ok 12.4.1. Needs to handle the case where a sequence/choice is embedded in another sequence/choice. Terminology assumes that FIRST, MIDDLE, LAST are elements. 12.4.1. General point: Needs re-inforcing that the content related operations (FIRST, MIDDLE, LAST, CONTENT) involve recursive calls to P (specifically one of E, C, G, R). 12.4.2. To be capable of use on a complex type's sequence or on an embedded sequence, your source to source transform actually replaces an unordered sequence with an ordered sequence, which contains an array element of local complex type, whose content is a choice... 12.4.2. "The dfdl:unordered is dropped" ... add "from the transformed sequence, other DFDL properties are unchanged". 12.4.2. The key sentence in this is "Ordered and unordered are characteristics of the representation only". This needs to be right up front. 12.4.2. Concern that implementing our own interpretation of unordered as described may be seen by wider community as clashing with xsd:all (which has been relaxed in XSD 1.1), does not allow a user to preserve his bitstream order (which although random could still have a semantic), and does not allow us to output exactly what we parsed. 12.4.2. General point: Output matching model order. Needs discussion. If we consider schema validation as separate from DFDL parse/unparse, then shouldn't the DFDL unparser output what it is presented with? 12.5. First mention of ATTEMPT. Did you mean EXISTS? 12.6. Why is it necessary to pull EXISTS into the array parser? You don't do the same for the sequence parser. 12.6. Is a NONE function also needed for sequence? If not can you say why. 12.6. Example call sequence - SEP missing between MIDDLE and EXISTS. 12.7. Is E missing from the first sentence? 12.8. Update to handle embedded sequences/choices. 12.8.1. Format nit: First line - blank space after dfdl:choice. 12.8.1. PRE and POST are handled in MRM today with choices. 12.8.2. Unrelated to main review: dfdl:lengthKind="xpath" .... is a better enum for this "pathExpression" 12.9.1. xsd:any can take minOccurs and maxOccurs, and default to (1,1). I think you've assumed that it is (0, unbounded). I think we need to decide if we support repeating wildcards. If we don't then the source transform of xsd:any for strict is direct to xsd:choice and for lax is direct to the xsd:sequence (you don't need the dummy complex type. In both cases you don't need the extra element, nor therefore the "id" attribute. 12.11.2.2. Would the complexType be better called bytesToBinaryInteger to match the output repType? 18.1.2. Why is localTerminator a separate argument, isn't everything you need in the context? 18.1.3. Contradicts itself about use of escape schemes. 18.2. Might not be understanding this. The magic 8 and 16 seem to be supplying defaults - but we don't allow property defaults. 18.2. binaryPrefixedString, binaryFixedString: DFDL allows lengthUnits to be 'bytes' for fixed length strings and prefixed strings. 18.2. binaryPrefixedString: LEN calculation omits some of the required properties 18.2. Not clear what the schema fragment is illustrating, nor the following P() function and two return statements. 18.4. Can AP and LSB never be set from variables ? They don't take them as input. 18.4.2. We are not convinced that using the bootstrapping technique of defining DFDL behaviour in terms of itself always helps. AP is a good example of things appearing to get overly complicated. It might be preferable to use some other code or pseudo-code mechanism to specify these behaviours - like you have in 18.4.3.

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New internal draft of Core document
by Mike Beckerle 25 Apr '07

25 Apr '07

I've posted version 017 of the internal draft core spec. to the gridforge site. Here is the URL: https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/docman/do/viewDocument/projects.dfdl-wg/docm… I'd like to ask people to review it with an eye towards whether the semantics part is clear enough or at least getting there. The major accomplishment in this draft was folding together some of Geoff's material on defaults/nulls/missing/optional (especially the input flow-charts) into the parse-strategies technique so as to illustrate that the parse-strategies framework I had put in was capable of handling this complexity. This spec is really now getting to the limit of what I can do in MS-Word. I.e., there's too much stuff in here that really needs to be developed as code in a programming language to insure there are no errors in it. Assuming the semantics framework is now ok, the next work is really cranking out actual parse and length strategy and conversion definitions, and this is going to be very error prone unless done in some type-checked and executable form. ...mikeb Mike Beckerle STSM, Architect, Scalable Computing IBM Software Group Information Platform and Solutions Westborough, MA 01581 direct: voice and FAX 508-599-7148 assistant: Pam Riordan priordan(a)us.ibm.com 508-599-7046

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DFDL call Wed 9am PST
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 25 Apr '07

25 Apr '07

The agenda will be focused on the ongoing changes to the document for OGF in May. Martin Call details: The following number can be used for our future regular weekly 12pm US.ET (9am US.PT) calls. This number does not require activation by a confidential leader code; hence, no matter who dials in first, the call will be active and people can get started. The call is active from 12pm to 1:30pm US.ET. I believe this will change with the US time zones in the fall, but we'll find out when we get there. If we schedule other calls at other times we'll need to use different dial-in numbers of course. *Dial-in Number: 8777602813 *Dial-in Toll Number: 7706595626 *Conference Code: 95697 Helpful Keypad Commands: * *0 Operator Assistance - conference * 00 Operator Assistance - individual * *6 / #6 Mute/Unmute - individual Dr. Martin Westhead Technical Lead, Assured Networks Group, Milpitas, CA| westhead(a)avaya.com |+1 408-577-7810 AVAYA

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DFDL call NOW - note the number
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 18 Apr '07

18 Apr '07

PASSCODE INFORMATION: Passcode: 1397733 ACCESS NUMBERS ------------------------------------ Click http://www.mymeetings.com/audioconferencing/globalAccessFAQ.php for information on specific country access dialing. Country Toll Numbers Freephone/Toll Free Number AUSTRIA 43-1-92-86-505 BELGIUM 32-1-150-0313 DENMARK 45-7014-0241 FRANCE PARIS: 33-1-70-75-25-34 080-563-9912 GERMANY 49-69-2222-20597 0800-101-6628 IRELAND 353-1-247-5273 ITALY 39-02-3601-0918 LUXEMBOURG 352-27-000-1319 NETHERLANDS 31-20-718-8531 SPAIN 34-91-414-63-07 800-098-195 SWEDEN 46-8-505-78-547 SWITZERLAND 41-44-580-4388 0800-001-371 UNITED KINGDOM LONDON: 44-20-7019-0801 0800-279-9191 USA 866-253-5305 Restrictions may exist when accessing freephone/toll free numbers using a mobile telephone. Country Freephone numbers cannot be used outside of the country listed. Please provide an International Country toll number to your participants as a back-up in the event of any Freephone restrictions being encountered. To learn more about how to dial a Global Access number go to https://www.mymeetings.com/audioconferencing/global_access.php Dr. Martin Westhead Technical Lead, Assured Networks Group, Milpitas, CA| westhead(a)avaya.com |+1 408-577-7810 AVAYA

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New Conference Call number
by Mike Beckerle 11 Apr '07

11 Apr '07

The following number can be used for our future regular weekly 12pm US.ET (9am US.PT) calls. This number does not require activation by a confidential leader code; hence, no matter who dials in first, the call will be active and people can get started. The call is active from 12pm to 1:30pm US.ET. I believe this will change with the US time zones in the fall, but we'll find out when we get there. If we schedule other calls at other times we'll need to use different dial-in numbers of course. *Dial-in Number: 8777602813 *Dial-in Toll Number: 7706595626 *Conference Code: 95697 Helpful Keypad Commands: *0 Operator Assistance - conference 00 Operator Assistance - individual *6 / #6 Mute/Unmute - individual

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