We are "anarchists" and we do what we want.

Anarchy doesn't scale. What will you expect with billion+ people without societal structure? Watch World War Z and then Book of Eli to find out. The future will probably be some mix of Apocalypse and Enlightenment, with the latter growing over the former. Some Judgement will happen, but unfortunately or not, it didn't come from the technologically-minded -- that Revolution got ***co-opted*** by CSS, Javascript, and Node.js. Now collectively called "systemd" (in my warped mind). So how do the techno-literati take back the Net, just as the masses need to take back the Law? For that, find the Business Plan at hackerspaces.org and read Zen Code. You may be seated, \0xDyamite

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 18:11:33 -0600 Mirimir wrote:

On 09/03/2016 01:17 PM, Xer0Dynamite wrote:

...

...

We are "anarchists" and we do what we want.

Anarchy doesn't scale. What will you expect with billion+ people without societal structure? Watch World War Z and then Book of Eli to find out.

Anarchy is a beautiful dream. But it's unworkable, except in small, self-selected groups.

I'm sure that retarded anti anarchy (and pro state) propaganda is 'on topic' in this list eh? http://activism.net/cypherpunk/crypto-anarchy.html "Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero, knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments." What are the last three words there? So remind me who are in continual violation of list charter?

On 09/03/2016 06:08 PM, Stephen D. Williams wrote:

Any real political anarchy has been a failure.

Tell that to the people of Barcelona. Tell that to the Spanish Anarchist Unions. You ARE 'talking out the side of your neck'. In other words. Full of shit. Just like 'the troll' (Juan) Rr

On 9/3/16 5:46 PM, juan wrote:

...

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 18:11:33 -0600 Mirimir wrote:

...

On 09/03/2016 01:17 PM, Xer0Dynamite wrote:

...

...

We are "anarchists" and we do what we want. Anarchy doesn't scale. What will you expect with billion+ people without societal structure? Watch World War Z and then Book of Eli to find out. Anarchy is a beautiful dream. But it's unworkable, except in small, self-selected groups.

I'm sure that retarded anti anarchy (and pro state) propaganda is 'on topic' in this list eh?

Some discussion of "* anarchy" isn't really anarchy, it is just maybe anarchy to someone fixated on a fixed definition of their favorite system. Or a signal by someone suggesting such a departure. Any real political anarchy has been a failure. If you have proof that isn't the case, then present it.

...

http://activism.net/cypherpunk/crypto-anarchy.html

"Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero, knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments."

What are the last three words there?

What is the whole paragraph? Is it a checklist of goals? Is it a statement that everything is desired for any purpose? Or is it a definition of a term?

The whole "manifesto" is a statement of predictions and likely results. The only call to action is a non-specific 'arise'.

...

So remind me who are in continual violation of list charter?

Juan more time: you philosophokiddies.

sdw

On 09/03/2016 06:45 PM, Stephen D. Williams wrote:

On 9/3/16 6:35 PM, Razer wrote:

...

On 09/03/2016 06:08 PM, Stephen D. Williams wrote:

...

Any real political anarchy has been a failure. Tell that to the people of Barcelona.

Tell that to the Spanish Anarchist Unions.

You ARE 'talking out the side of your neck'.

In other words. Full of shit. Just like 'the troll' (Juan)

You mean 2 unions and a few squatters? (Unless I misinterpreted.) Doesn't seem too convincing as a political system. Good example to read up on later though, thanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain

Keep picking nits loser. Red Flora, Rote Flora, Hamburg Germany. A whole anarchist neighborhood and community center that's existed for years. Three years ago they stood the government down, with assistance coming from all over Europe.

"The city experienced some of its worst street violence since the Second World War. Masked protesters torched cars and showered police with stones, bottles and fireworks. The police responded with water cannon, baton charges and tear gas. More than 120 police officers and an estimated 500 demonstrators were injured, many of them badly.

Just days later, another group of protesters assaulted police with stones and bottles as they were leaving the Davidwache station in what was apparently an unprovoked attack." http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/73176327509 http://en.squat.net/2013/12/23/hamburg-update-on-saturdays-protest/ Ps. Red Flora still stands. Unlike prog-lib protests and squats, because there's a HUGE BASE OF SUPPORT in German society. Spain too. It's not JUST Barcelona you know, or maybe you don't pay any attention the the news from Spain but rely on Wikipedia entries to explain what's happening in the world. Rr

sdw

...

Rr

...

...

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 18:11:33 -0600 Mirimir wrote:

...

On 09/03/2016 01:17 PM, Xer0Dynamite wrote:

...

> We are "anarchists" and we do what we want. Anarchy doesn't scale. What will you expect with billion+ people without societal structure? Watch World War Z and then Book of Eli to find out. Anarchy is a beautiful dream. But it's unworkable, except in small, self-selected groups.

I'm sure that retarded anti anarchy (and pro state) propaganda is 'on topic' in this list eh? Some discussion of "* anarchy" isn't really anarchy, it is just maybe anarchy to someone fixated on a fixed definition of their favorite system. Or a signal by someone suggesting such a departure. Any real

On 9/3/16 5:46 PM, juan wrote: political anarchy has been a failure. If you have proof that isn't the case, then present it.

...

http://activism.net/cypherpunk/crypto-anarchy.html

"Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero, knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments."

What are the last three words there?

What is the whole paragraph? Is it a checklist of goals? Is it a statement that everything is desired for any purpose? Or is it a definition of a term?

The whole "manifesto" is a statement of predictions and likely results. The only call to action is a non-specific 'arise'.

...

So remind me who are in continual violation of list charter?

Juan more time: you philosophokiddies.

sdw

-- Stephen D. Williams sdw@lig.net stephendwilliams@gmail.com LinkedIn: http://sdw.st/in V:650-450-UNIX (8649) V:866.SDW.UNIX V:703.371.9362 F:703.995.0407 AIM:sdw Skype:StephenDWilliams Yahoo:sdwlignet Resume: http://sdw.st/gres Personal: http://sdw.st facebook.com/sdwlig twitter.com/scienteer

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 18:08:41 -0700 "Stephen D. Williams" wrote:

...

http://activism.net/cypherpunk/crypto-anarchy.html

"Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments."

What are the last three words there?

What is the whole paragraph?

Are you too drunk to read, too stupid to read, or what. Maybe try ctrl-f? Actually, you must have seen May's signature hundreds of times? Bah, I don't realliy care. And you seem to have ignored my previous message, which is probably a good thing so that I don't waste more time replying to a new whole set of absurdities.

The only call to action is a non-specific 'arise'.

ha ha ha - just how far can your bad faith go? I'd bet it's limitless.

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 19:08:51 -0700 "Stephen D. Williams" wrote:

On 9/3/16 7:07 PM, juan wrote:

...

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 18:08:41 -0700 "Stephen D. Williams" wrote:

...

...

http://activism.net/cypherpunk/crypto-anarchy.html

"Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments."

What are the last three words there?

What is the whole paragraph? Are you too drunk to read, too stupid to read, or what. Maybe try ctrl-f? Actually, you must have seen May's signature hundreds of times?

Bah, I don't realliy care. And you seem to have ignored my previous message, which is probably a good thing so that I don't waste more time replying to a new whole set of absurdities.

You're arguing about the meaning of English now?

What the fuck are you talking about?

You've already lost that one. Regardless of what Tim may or may not have wanted to happen in some or all cases, it doesn't say there, or in the manifesto.

Again, what are you talking about. The only one arguing about the meaning of english, more specifically, 'arguiing that anarchy doesn't mean anarchy, is you.

...

...

The only call to action is a non-specific 'arise'. ha ha ha - just how far can your bad faith go? I'd bet it's limitless.

sdw

On 9/3/16 1:30 PM, juan wrote:

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 14:41:52 -0400 grarpamp wrote:

...

[1] "The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society." incomplete, and you didn't even provide a 'source'

plus, it's obvious that you haven't read the 1992 - ~1998 archives of the list.

Archives? We read it in real time.

...

There are reasonable relateds within the realm of "cypherpunk" to include *its* computing, tools, privacy, surveillance, law, news, literature / art / society, hacking / making, organizations and projects, politics, tech, science, solutions, crime, etc, etc.

The occaisional short lived foray under self regulation and restraint into untied topics of possible interest to readerbase might be considered ok, however NOT to the extent that it's been abused ongoing.

If you're wondering why the "thousands" of people on the list aren't "analysing political philosophies" with you, it's because YOU'RE FUCKING OFFTOPIC,

+1, or, in the new parlance, >>.

lol - so political philosophy is off topic? Because you say so?

If it isn't directly about the access to or effects of cryptography and related security practices, it is off topic. Early on, the list was largely about making sure that we had unfettered access to encryption and reasoning about the consequences of that. This was important for ecommerce, the Internet in general, the boundaries of the First Amendment, and as the baseline for the rest of the world. All kinds of power grabs were in play, directly from the FBI and others. A weak response might have left us in a position difficult to unravel. Most of that came out OK, but there are always ongoing concerns and implications. Arguing whether the end of the world is coming or whose fault it is or who is making political or military mistakes is all completely off topic. sdw

On 9/3/16 2:41 PM, juan wrote:

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 14:14:13 -0700 "Stephen D. Williams" wrote:

...

On 9/3/16 1:30 PM, juan wrote:

...

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 14:41:52 -0400 grarpamp wrote:

...

[1] "The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society." incomplete, and you didn't even provide a 'source'

plus, it's obvious that you haven't read the 1992 - ~1998 archives of the list. Archives? We read it in real time.

Who - the fuck - is we. My message was addressed to grarpamp. I bet he didn't read it in real time.

The not (ignorant and immature) crowd. That's we.

...

If it isn't directly about the access to or effects of cryptography and related security practices, it is off topic.

Because an absurdist like you says so.

Your definition of absurd is absurd.

...

Early on, the list was largely about making sure that we had unfettered access to encryption and reasoning about the consequences of that. This was important for ecommerce, the Internet in general, the boundaries of the First Amendment, and as the baseline for the rest of the world. All kinds of power grabs were in play, directly from the FBI and others. A weak response might have left us in a position difficult to unravel. Most of that came out OK, Exactly what a US establishment puppet woud say.

So let's see :

1992 :

"Computer technology is on the verge of providing the ability for individuals and groups to communicate and interact with each other in a totally anonymous manner. "

I wonder if Tim May is embarrased at having mande such a blatantly wrong predicion.

He wasn't wrong. Anonymous communication is fairly easy now. But for most of us most of the time, there is no need. That's the real revolution, although off topic. That we have options and methods is on topic.

" Interactions over networks will be untraceable, via extensive re- routing of encrypted packets and tamper-proof boxes which implement cryptographic protocols with nearly perfect assurance against any tampering."

Where are such networks operating?

Government networks work that way. Others generally can use less intensive solutions to get a good enough result. Do you think that anyone savvy and not a target of anti-terrorism has trouble communicating securely? We should keep examining theory, writing code, finding good solutions. There are definitely interesting problems left. My favorite thought experiment: Instead of weak centrally controlled communication systems that can be accessed, broken, leaked widely: A distributed system that is secure from abuse, yet able to expose communication that some important subset vote to expose. Instead of threatening violence, threaten exposure within the rules of a self-regulating system. That's on topic.

What we do have is completely sabotaged hardware courtesy of Intel Inc, a criminal organization that May had something to do, I believe.5but there are always ongoing concerns and implications.

Worry about whatever you want to worry about.

Oh...

...

Arguing whether the end of the world is coming or whose fault it is or who is making political or military mistakes is all completely off topic.

Sure. It's especially important that the political 'mistakes' of the american nazis be completely 'ignored'.

Completely off topic. And ignorant. But especially off topic.

...

sdw

sdw

On 9/3/16 5:00 PM, Razer wrote:

On 09/03/2016 11:41 AM, grarpamp wrote:

...

"The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society." That's why I'm here. I'm on the 'society' end of that dyad.

Just in case it REALLY matters to Juan (hereafter known as 'the troll') to know what my interest in the list is, and further, for 'the troll's information one of the personal influences I named, Herbert Marcuse, whose work precedes cryptography as social influence, would have fucking well discussed it. Further, the Marxists of his time, the political inclination 'the troll' accuses me of adhering to, rejected Marcuse. It was an Anarchist... Abbie Hoffman, who is the only person of the times afaict who understood WTF Marcuse (and McLuhan) was talking about and put it into effect in his activism.

An interesting Townshend quote relative to Abbie: http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/28/opinions/bergen-1970s-terrorism/index.html

Townshend shouted "Fuck off! Fuck off my stage!" Townshend later said that while he actually agreed with Hoffman on Sinclair's imprisonment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration, he would have knocked him offstage regardless of the content of his message, given that Hoffman had violated the "sanctity of the stage," i.e., the right of the band to perform uninterrupted by distractions not relevant to the show.

I like that: "right of the band to perform uninterrupted by distractions not relevant to the show." I was just looking at this history of anarchism, terrorism, etc.: Seems a lot like what some of the philosophokiddies are spewing toward. But it's all been done before. The points have been made, some adjustments were incorporated. After a good hard neo-con swing, swinging the other way quite a bit. But a lot has been absorbed and learned, so not quite so simplistic. Anyway, mostly off topic. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/28/opinions/bergen-1970s-terrorism/index.html http://rfrancocsp.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-terrorists-of-1970s.html http://www.sbs.com.au/programs/Seventies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground

In Weatherman theory "oppressed peoples" are the creators of the wealth of empire, "and it is to them that it belongs." "The goal of revolutionary struggle must be the control and use of this wealth in the interest of the oppressed peoples of the world." "The goal is the destruction of US imperialism and the achievement of a classless world: world communism"

The philosophokiddie cyperpunks are thoroughly punked and parodied in Mr. Robot: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-creator-of-mr-robot-explains-its-hackti...

Rr

...

...

shit and get down to business on analysing political philosphies, to find practical approaches for our modern societies full of schooled This list is *not* for that, and it's not a list to longtalk food recipes, or anything else either. Lack of moderation is not license for people to come here and setup their own offtopic shops, grossly, willfully and continually disrespecting what it says on the tin and the history of the list long before you [1], to the tune of many tens to hundreds of messages per month, especially without tying it into that. If you want to longtalk anything other than that to the point

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 4:38 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: that the charter would need a whole new section just for you, GO FIND OR MAKE YOUR OWN FUCKING LIST FOR THAT.

[1] "The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society." There are reasonable relateds within the realm of "cypherpunk" to include *its* computing, tools, privacy, surveillance, law, news, literature / art / society, hacking / making, organizations and projects, politics, tech, science, solutions, crime, etc, etc.

The occaisional short lived foray under self regulation and restraint into untied topics of possible interest to readerbase might be considered ok, however NOT to the extent that it's been abused ongoing.

If you're wondering why the "thousands" of people on the list aren't "analysing political philosophies" with you, it's because YOU'RE FUCKING OFFTOPIC, THEY DON'T WANT TO, and they've BLOCKED YOUR ASS.

But for new people hoping to find a real or even passable cypherpunk list, and before even joining and blocking you, but just looking over archives, your noise, and the angry abusive trolls, kills it for them.

Have some respect for that. The lot of you. Or get off here.

sdw

On 9/3/16 6:16 PM, Razer wrote:

On 09/03/2016 05:48 PM, Stephen D. Williams wrote:

...

On 9/3/16 5:00 PM, Razer wrote:

...

On 09/03/2016 11:41 AM, grarpamp wrote:

...

"The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society." That's why I'm here. I'm on the 'society' end of that dyad.

Just in case it REALLY matters to Juan (hereafter known as 'the troll') to know what my interest in the list is, and further, for 'the troll's information one of the personal influences I named, Herbert Marcuse, whose work precedes cryptography as social influence, would have fucking well discussed it. Further, the Marxists of his time, the political inclination 'the troll' accuses me of adhering to, rejected Marcuse. It was an Anarchist... Abbie Hoffman, who is the only person of the times afaict who understood WTF Marcuse (and McLuhan) was talking about and put it into effect in his activism. An interesting Townshend quote relative to Abbie: http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/28/opinions/bergen-1970s-terrorism/index.html Townshend shouted "Fuck off! Fuck off my stage!" Townshend later said that while he actually agreed with Hoffman on Sinclair's imprisonment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration, he would have knocked him offstage regardless of the content of his message, given that Hoffman had violated the "sanctity of the stage," i.e., the right of the band to perform uninterrupted by distractions not relevant to the show. I like that: "right of the band to perform uninterrupted by distractions not relevant to the show." That's OK a few weeks later UAW/MF threatened to burn the Fillmore East to the ground with Graham's HA bouncer inside. A VERY REAL ACTIONABLE THREAT, and for the next few months, on Wednesday night, there was Free Music at the Fillmore East. Name acts in the alt rock world came to play.

You see Stephen in the REAL WORLD, you win some and lose some and honestly, even Abbie thought he might get clobbered for getting up there but you know he felt the NEED to do it Sinclair was a *friend* of his being victimized by the authorities and stalked NSA style by various government agencies ( was too... hence my ongoing interest in (x)security), and he did it.

If he hadn't you'd probably refer to him as a coward instead of a 'disruptor'... Right Stephen? Because you're full of shit.

What have you done for anyone EVER that put your safety on the line?

Are you a vet? Fuck you then babykiller. Ever gone to an antiwar protest and faced down a wall of cops because you believe it's right? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to second guess, out of ignorance, other people's motivations?

You are awfully sensitive. I wasn't commenting on Abbie's or anyone else's motivations except for the noise and nonsense on this list. As Townshend said, he actually agreed with Abbie, but he was protecting the sanctity of his venue because he was focused on his purpose.

FYI, because I know you never knew fuck squat about him, Hoffman got his start as a Freedom Rider. Later he was the Northeastern marketer for "Freedom House". A Black self-help collective operating in the South selling crafts in self support.

That's when he saw "Hippies" and set about turning people who were pretty much hedonists and apolitical, into hard core antiwar anti-imperialist activists, with humor. He scammed the YMCA into paying the lease on the Cooper Square Free Store where he organized for Chicago

What the fuck have you ever done to influence anyone, except a boss, for some self-serving purpose dude?

I have my goals, strategies, and accomplishments. No need to talk about it. Or justify anything. I wasn't appealing to authority. Not really interested in your efforts to fish for ad hominem attack vectors. I made clear that I was reading up on some relevant background, commented on one narrow sentiment, and you want to pick a fight over a position you think I have? Not great reading comprehension or reasoning there. On light reading, I think I agree with your point of view, and I didn't say anything to the contrary.

You're right in there with Juan, in some philosophically perfect political world, where things happen 'just so'. Well things DON'T always happen 'just so'. Sinclair could have easily met the same fate in jail as Sam Melville (who I knew btw), or Fred Hampton, and if one of his friends was wiling to get clobbered to spread that word, again WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU to say:

"I like that".

Besides, Hoffman got more publicity for John Sinclair from that outcome than if he's been allowed to shout it.

But you're most likely to ignorant to understand why that might be the case.

I wasn't commenting on that historical event per se. That was clear from what I wrote.

Rr

...

I was just looking at this history of anarchism, terrorism, etc.: Seems a lot like what some of the philosophokiddies are spewing toward. But it's all been done before. The points have been made, some adjustments were incorporated. After a good hard neo-con swing, swinging the other way quite a bit. But a lot has been absorbed and learned, so not quite so simplistic. Anyway, mostly off topic.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/28/opinions/bergen-1970s-terrorism/index.html http://rfrancocsp.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-terrorists-of-1970s.html http://www.sbs.com.au/programs/Seventies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground

...

In Weatherman theory "oppressed peoples" are the creators of the wealth of empire, "and it is to them that it belongs." "The goal of revolutionary struggle must be the control and use of this wealth in the interest of the oppressed peoples of the world." "The goal is the destruction of US imperialism and the achievement of a classless world: world communism" The philosophokiddie cyperpunks are thoroughly punked and parodied in Mr. Robot:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-creator-of-mr-robot-explains-its-hackti...

...

Rr

...

...

shit and get down to business on analysing political philosphies, to find practical approaches for our modern societies full of schooled This list is *not* for that, and it's not a list to longtalk food recipes, or anything else either. Lack of moderation is not license for people to come here and setup their own offtopic shops, grossly, willfully and continually disrespecting what it says on the tin and the history of the list long before you [1], to the tune of many tens to hundreds of messages per month, especially without tying it into that. If you want to longtalk anything other than that to the point

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 4:38 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: that the charter would need a whole new section just for you, GO FIND OR MAKE YOUR OWN FUCKING LIST FOR THAT.

[1] "The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society." There are reasonable relateds within the realm of "cypherpunk" to include *its* computing, tools, privacy, surveillance, law, news, literature / art / society, hacking / making, organizations and projects, politics, tech, science, solutions, crime, etc, etc.

The occaisional short lived foray under self regulation and restraint into untied topics of possible interest to readerbase might be considered ok, however NOT to the extent that it's been abused ongoing.

If you're wondering why the "thousands" of people on the list aren't "analysing political philosophies" with you, it's because YOU'RE FUCKING OFFTOPIC, THEY DON'T WANT TO, and they've BLOCKED YOUR ASS.

But for new people hoping to find a real or even passable cypherpunk list, and before even joining and blocking you, but just looking over archives, your noise, and the angry abusive trolls, kills it for them.

Have some respect for that. The lot of you. Or get off here.

sdw

sdw

On 9/3/16 11:32 PM, juan wrote:

Playing with the 92-98 archive...

From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 10:48:20 PDT To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: CYPHERPUNK considered harmful.

"Similarly, there's the Libertarian Party, with similar themes to our own..."

"Getting back to your suggestion that "we" change the name to something more respectable. How could "we" do this, given that "we" are an effective anarchy?"

The group was "an effective anarchy". So is hanging out with your friends. Corporations (and families for that matter) are, classically, dictatorships. Does that make the political and economic system they operate in dictatorships too?

"Form your own group, your own mailing list, with a catchy name, something like "The Privacy Education Foundation," or "The American Civil Liberties Union" (whoops, taken), or "The Society for the Preservation of Cyberspatial Liberty." " "Evolution in action. The market in action. A better approach than trying to get the name and the charter changed."

A market in action...

ps: messages from the great philosopher Stephen D. Williams? 77 in total, stopped posting in 1995 - messages are either content free or nerdy, useless, technical stuff.

And firewalls: http://www.greatcircle.com/firewalls/archive/firewalls.199502 We were talking about crypographic and security related topics, like firewalls and protocols, time stamping services (which I implemented a couple times for widely used services), etc. I even found time to correct Tim May, who cried uncle sort of. ;-) I happened to have personal knowledge of that situation. I wasn't mature enough to philosophize much then. I lurked later, being extremely busy implementing things and other pursuits. sdw

On 09/04/2016 02:19 PM, juan wrote some telling information about 'where he's been'; a 'place' some of us may not have 'been to'..

Families and businesses are dictatorial beacause they operate in a dictatorial environment - child raising tends to be pretty dictatorial per se. What is your point.

I've said this before. Your world is lonely and miserable. Rr

On Sun, 4 Sep 2016 00:22:04 -0700 "Stephen D. Williams" wrote:

...

On 9/3/16 11:32 PM, juan wrote:

...

Playing with the 92-98 archive...

From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 10:48:20 PDT To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: CYPHERPUNK considered harmful.

"Similarly, there's the Libertarian Party, with similar themes to our own..."

"Getting back to your suggestion that "we" change the name to something more respectable. How could "we" do this, given that "we" are an effective anarchy?"

The group was "an effective anarchy". So is hanging out with your friends. Corporations (and families for that matter) are, classically, dictatorships. Does that make the political and economic system they operate in dictatorships too?

Families and businesses are dictatorial beacause they operate in a dictatorial environment - child raising tends to be pretty dictatorial per se. What is your point.

My point was to inform people that the 'themes' of the cypherpunk 'movement' are supposed to be libertarian themes (forgetting for a second that the US libertarian party is a joke)

...

...

"Form your own group, your own mailing list, with a catchy name, something like "The Privacy Education Foundation," or "The American Civil Liberties Union" (whoops, taken), or "The Society for the Preservation of Cyberspatial Liberty." " "Evolution in action. The market in action. A better approach than trying to get the name and the charter changed."

A market in action...

My point is that the CHARTER of the mailing list is supposed to be LIBERTARIAN.

...

...

ps: messages from the great philosopher Stephen D. Williams? 77 in total, stopped posting in 1995 - messages are either content free or nerdy, useless, technical stuff.

And firewalls: http://www.greatcircle.com/firewalls/archive/firewalls.199502

We were talking about crypographic and security related topics, like firewalls and protocols, time stamping services (which I implemented a couple times for widely used services), etc.

Cool. And you sabotaged them as well, as per orders from your government I assume. Why don't you tell us about that?

...

I even found time to correct Tim May, who cried uncle sort of. ;-) I happened to have personal knowledge of that situation.

I wasn't mature enough to philosophize much then.

And you think you are know? Do you know the etymology of the word "philosophy", I suppose?

Philo-sophy means love of knowdlege/wisdom. See, the requirement for philosophy is not 'maturity'(whatever you mean by that). The requirement for philosophy is the love of truth and intellectual honesty.

...

I lurked later, being extremely busy implementing things and other pursuits.

...

sdw