communicating with police officers, narratives, discrimination

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Zenaan Harkness

22 Jul 2020 22 Jul '20

4:44 p.m.

Some people seem to like to direct their anger at external authorities, or treat certain other humans with disdain because they've had a bad experience with someone else of the same profession/job/ race/ sex/ whatever. There are bad apples around, but it may be in your personal interest to keep in mind that many police officers at least originally joined the police because they either wanted to make a positive difference in their community, and/or they actually wanted to see righteousness upheld in their community and the obvious corollary, to see unrighteousness be held to account. Such principles at least in their essence are honourable, and with inherent dignity. As many with open eyes can see, there are powerful forces at work today, particularly in the USA, which are acting with the intention to bring about great chaos in your communities, and one way they do this is by using their dogs in the media to try to program the sheeple to see external authorities as purely negative and without any redeeming factors. Such dichotomies or black and white absolutes, are obviousy false even at a quick glance, and we do no favour to ourselves, or to those we care about, to hold to such black/white bullshit. When roaming gangs come to the door of you and those you love, a natural instinct for many is to immediately seek the support of external authorities which at least nominally are intended to be in such a role of support. We are all human, with human failings and human tendencies. We ought consider carefully the "mainstream media" narratives we are fed, and the foundation intentions which might be underlying the messages put to us. We each play a role in creating our world, and sitting on the fence "as a mugwud bird, with his mug on one side, and his wud on the other side of that fence, pretending to be impartial" is an actual choice, and in this sense is a very real action, with very real consequences - because you see, he might think he is "impartial", but he still shits on one side of the fence... Our maker endowed us with some capacity for discrimination, and perhaps now is a useful time to get back to using this power of discrimination, to actively discriminate between right and wrong, truth and bullshit, good and evil.

Show replies by date

Karl

25 Jul 25 Jul

6:48 p.m.

How does this expression land for this being a cryptoanarchist list? 1 in line reply below. - K There is proof inside many peoples' electronics. Proof that a marketing group would contract development of a frightening virus. A virus that responds to peoples' keystrokes and browsing habits, and changes what people see on their devices. A virus that alters political behavior en masse, for profit. On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 12:44 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote:

...

Some people seem to like to direct their anger at external authorities, or treat certain other humans with disdain because they've had a bad experience with someone else of the same profession/job/ race/ sex/ whatever.

There are bad apples around, but

Here you begin treating people with disdain ("bad apples") which you criticize doing in the paragraph prior. Let's not treat people with disdain. I've bumped into some really nice police officers. It seems highly unfortunate they direct people to prisons instead of mediation. I have not found any avenue to mediate with police. We need police officers who can break the thin blue wall of silence, to reach censorship-resistant communication channels. it may be in your personal interest to keep in mind that many police

...

officers at least originally joined the police because they either wanted to make a positive difference in their community, and/or they actually wanted to see righteousness upheld in their community and the obvious corollary, to see unrighteousness be held to account.

Such principles at least in their essence are honourable, and with inherent dignity.

As many with open eyes can see, there are powerful forces at work today, particularly in the USA, which are acting with the intention to bring about great chaos in your communities, and one way they do this is by using their dogs in the media to try to program the sheeple to see external authorities as purely negative and without any redeeming factors.

Such dichotomies or black and white absolutes, are obviousy false even at a quick glance, and we do no favour to ourselves, or to those we care about, to hold to such black/white bullshit.

When roaming gangs come to the door of you and those you love, a natural instinct for many is to immediately seek the support of external authorities which at least nominally are intended to be in such a role of support.

We are all human, with human failings and human tendencies.

We ought consider carefully the "mainstream media" narratives we are fed, and the foundation intentions which might be underlying the messages put to us.

We each play a role in creating our world, and sitting on the fence "as a mugwud bird, with his mug on one side, and his wud on the other side of that fence, pretending to be impartial" is an actual choice, and in this sense is a very real action, with very real consequences - because you see, he might think he is "impartial", but he still shits on one side of the fence...

Our maker endowed us with some capacity for discrimination, and perhaps now is a useful time to get back to using this power of discrimination, to actively discriminate between right and wrong, truth and bullshit, good and evil.

Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0

9:40 p.m.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 14:48:04 -0400 Karl wrote:

...

I've bumped into some really nice police officers.

there is no such thing.

...

It seems highly unfortunate they direct people to prisons instead of mediation.

so you're acknowledging that your 'nice' worthless pieces of shit do very un-nice things eh? See, when you put two flatly contradictory sentences side by side like you did, you should realize your reasoning is (pretty) flawed.

...

it may be in your personal interest to keep in mind that many police

...
officers at least originally joined the police because they either wanted to make a positive difference in their community,

false

Karl

10:13 p.m.

Punk, would you be interested in helping preserve videos of police violence? Copwatch projects are hard to maintain because they can be seen as counter to the local authorities. Comments below. - K There is proof inside many peoples' electronics. Proof that a marketing group would contract development of a frightening virus. A virus that responds to peoples' keystrokes and browsing habits, and changes what people see on their devices. A virus that alters political behavior en masse, for profit. On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:31 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...

On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 14:48:04 -0400 Karl wrote:

...
I've bumped into some really nice police officers.

there is no such thing.

Well police officers do have blaming, endangering, and harming people as their job right now, under the label of serving and protecting other people.

...

It seems highly unfortunate they direct people to prisons instead of mediation.

so you're acknowledging that your 'nice' worthless pieces of shit do very un-nice things eh? See, when you put two flatly contradictory sentences side by side like you did, you should realize your reasoning is (pretty) flawed.

What's most important is handling what actually happens, yes, but I differentiate between who people are, and what harm they are one of the causes of. For example, it is kind of you to defend those of us who have been severely harmed by a cop, but to cops it is an un-nice thing to express worthlessness around them. I do not take sides in the end. I still have experiences I am passionate about.

...

...
it may be in your personal interest to keep in mind that many police

...
officers at least originally joined the police because they either

wanted

...
...
to make a positive difference in their community,

false

What's your knowledge? We all seem to come from different countries, for one thing.

...

Zig the N.g

26 Jul 26 Jul

2:30 a.m.

May be if you don't limit it to cops, but include any "unnecessary use of violence", then it could be more likely to garner omni partisan support, rather than be seen by one particular as a direct attack on them - which seems counter productive. To this end, you could call it "moron watch". As soon as partisanship shows it's ugly troll face, you will lose supporters, you lose the moral high ground, and you turbo charge the divisions that are happening that some people like to deny... Choose wisely, On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 06:13:07PM -0400, Karl wrote:

...

Punk, would you be interested in helping preserve videos of police violence? Copwatch projects are hard to maintain because they can be seen as counter to the local authorities.

Comments below.

-

K

There is proof inside many peoples' electronics. Proof that a marketing group would contract development of a frightening virus. A virus that responds to peoples' keystrokes and browsing habits, and changes what people see on their devices. A virus that alters political behavior en masse, for profit.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:31 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...
On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 14:48:04 -0400 Karl wrote:

...
I've bumped into some really nice police officers.

there is no such thing.

Well police officers do have blaming, endangering, and harming people as their job right now, under the label of serving and protecting other people.

...
It seems highly unfortunate they direct people to prisons instead of mediation.

so you're acknowledging that your 'nice' worthless pieces of shit do very un-nice things eh? See, when you put two flatly contradictory sentences side by side like you did, you should realize your reasoning is (pretty) flawed.

What's most important is handling what actually happens, yes, but I differentiate between who people are, and what harm they are one of the causes of. For example, it is kind of you to defend those of us who have been severely harmed by a cop, but to cops it is an un-nice thing to express worthlessness around them. I do not take sides in the end. I still have experiences I am passionate about.

...
...
it may be in your personal interest to keep in mind that many police

...
officers at least originally joined the police because they either

wanted

...
...
to make a positive difference in their community,

false

What's your knowledge? We all seem to come from different countries, for one thing.

...

Karl

10:50 a.m.

Here in the US, I have bumped into massive quantities of people both on the left and on the right, who dislike police and want to reign them in. But I agree that handling _all_ unnecessary violence would be a great thing and ideal. There's energy around copwatch after the BLM thing, more people involved, but for those free to spread there wings observation of other forms of violence would be a natural progression. And it is a lot easier to take action on issues outside your own country. I'm okay with "moron watch"; I think more people could be included if we didn't pick a name that criticized the perpetrators, since they may be exposed to even more events: how about "violence leaks" maybe? On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 10:31 PM Zig the N.g wrote:

...

May be if you don't limit it to cops, but include any "unnecessary use of violence", then it could be more likely to garner omni partisan support, rather than be seen by one particular as a direct attack on them - which seems counter productive.

To this end, you could call it "moron watch".

As soon as partisanship shows it's ugly troll face, you will lose supporters, you lose the moral high ground, and you turbo charge the divisions that are happening that some people like to deny...

Choose wisely,

...
Punk, would you be interested in helping preserve videos of police violence? Copwatch projects are hard to maintain because they can be seen as counter to the local authorities.

Comments below.

-

K

There is proof inside many peoples' electronics. Proof that a marketing group would contract development of a frightening virus. A virus that responds to peoples' keystrokes and browsing habits, and changes what people see on their devices. A virus that alters political behavior en masse, for profit.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:31 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...
On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 14:48:04 -0400 Karl wrote:

...
I've bumped into some really nice police officers.

there is no such thing.

Well police officers do have blaming, endangering, and harming people as their job right now, under the label of serving and protecting other

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 06:13:07PM -0400, Karl wrote: people.

...
...
It seems highly unfortunate they direct people to prisons instead of mediation.

so you're acknowledging that your 'nice' worthless pieces of

shit

...
...
do very un-nice things eh? See, when you put two flatly contradictory sentences side by side like you did, you should realize your reasoning is (pretty) flawed.

What's most important is handling what actually happens, yes, but I differentiate between who people are, and what harm they are one of the causes of. For example, it is kind of you to defend those of us who have been severely harmed by a cop, but to cops it is an un-nice thing to express worthlessness around them. I do not take sides in the end. I still have experiences I am passionate about.

...
...
it may be in your personal interest to keep in mind that many police

...
officers at least originally joined the police because they either

wanted

...
...
to make a positive difference in their community,

false

What's your knowledge? We all seem to come from different countries, for one thing.

...

- K There is proof inside many peoples' electronics. Proof that a marketing group would contract development of a frightening virus. A virus that responds to peoples' keystrokes and browsing habits, and changes what people see on their devices. A virus that alters political behavior en masse, for profit.

Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0

6:54 p.m.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 18:13:07 -0400 Karl wrote:

...

Punk, would you be interested in helping preserve videos of police violence?

I can keep a few of them on my HD if that's of any use.

...

Copwatch projects are hard to maintain because they can be seen as counter to the local authorities.

...

Well police officers do have blaming, endangering, and harming people as their job right now, under the label of serving and protecting other people.

the job description of the police has always been "to serve and protect the ruling class". They enforce the 'laws' that politicians make up. Cops are hitmen who do whatever they are told to do. The only possible good cop is one that turns against his masters and so stops being a cop.

...

What's most important is handling what actually happens, yes, but I differentiate between who people are, and what harm they are one of the causes of. For example, it is kind of you to defend those of us who have been severely harmed by a cop, but to cops it is an un-nice thing to express worthlessness around them. I do not take sides in the end. I still have experiences I am passionate about.

yeah people who are in the wrong don't want to admit that they are in the wrong. Same reason why the US govt and supporters invade and loot the whole world and murder tens of millions of people while pretending they are the good guys, bringing 'freedom' Same reason why US military employee musk wants to bring 'free internet' to iran . You probably can find a few more examples of criminals pretending that they have the high moral ground....

...

...
...
it may be in your personal interest to keep in mind that many police

...
officers at least originally joined the police because they either wanted to make a positive difference in their community,

false

What's your knowledge? We all seem to come from different countries, for one thing.

The police here tend to be lazy and corrupt so that partially limits the damage they cause, but not that much.

Zenaan Harkness

1:53 a.m.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 02:48:04PM -0400, Karl wrote:

...

How does this expression land for this being a cryptoanarchist list?

1 in line reply below.

-

K

There is proof inside many peoples' electronics. Proof that a marketing group would contract development of a frightening virus. A virus that responds to peoples' keystrokes and browsing habits, and changes what people see on their devices. A virus that alters political behavior en masse, for profit.

Your sig fills ~10 extra lines in every email you send. Again you keep sending me 2 copies of almost every email you reply to me, and accasionally an extra email apologising.

...

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 12:44 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote:

...
Some people seem to like to direct their anger at external authorities, or treat certain other humans with disdain because they've had a bad experience with someone else of the same profession/job/ race/ sex/ whatever.

There are bad apples around, but

Here you begin treating people with disdain ("bad apples") which you criticize doing in the paragraph prior.

Are you saying that there are no "bad apples" around?

Karl

11:01 a.m.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 9:54 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote:

...

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 02:48:04PM -0400, Karl wrote:

...
How does this expression land for this being a cryptoanarchist list?

1 in line reply below.

-

K

There is proof inside many peoples' electronics. Proof that a marketing group would contract development of a frightening virus. A virus that responds to peoples' keystrokes and browsing habits, and changes what people see on their devices. A virus that alters political behavior en masse, for profit.

Your sig fills ~10 extra lines in every email you send.

Again you keep sending me 2 copies of almost every email you reply to me, and accasionally an extra email apologising.

Something I'm cognitively strong enough to take action on is the "occasionally". Sorry for my last email going out twice towards you. I'm thinking maybe if I can get a new phone or fix my computer I can get set up with a bright reminder notice over my email send button. Maybe I can think of a way to do that without requiring that.

...

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 12:44 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote:

...
...
Some people seem to like to direct their anger at external

authorities, or

...
...
treat certain other humans with disdain because they've had a bad experience with someone else of the same profession/job/ race/ sex/ whatever.

There are bad apples around, but

Here you begin treating people with disdain ("bad apples") which you criticize doing in the paragraph prior.

Are you saying that there are no "bad apples" around?

I am saying that "bad apples" is a disdainful opinion. I note it also spreads disbelief in mediation to solve problems without violence.

...

Zenaan Harkness

11:41 a.m.

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 07:01:47AM -0400, Karl wrote:

...

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 9:54 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote:

...
Are you saying that there are no "bad apples" around?

I am saying that "bad apples" is a disdainful opinion. I note it also spreads disbelief in mediation to solve problems without violence.

Why are you saying that the phrase "bad apples" is _not_ appropriate to describe for example police who use excessive force or violence, or lawyers or news readers who lie?

Steven Schear

27 Jul 27 Jul

10:50 a.m.

Many of the problems of police enforcement, especially unwarranted violence, cannot be solved until the human officers are replaced by androids. The almost universal reason for excessive violence are unfit officers and the officer's fear of injury or death. When this is no longer a factor there is no longer a reason for this violence. On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 5:44 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote:

...

Some people seem to like to direct their anger at external authorities, or treat certain other humans with disdain because they've had a bad experience with someone else of the same profession/job/ race/ sex/ whatever.

There are bad apples around, but it may be in your personal interest to keep in mind that many police officers at least originally joined the police because they either wanted to make a positive difference in their community, and/or they actually wanted to see righteousness upheld in their community and the obvious corollary, to see unrighteousness be held to account.

Such principles at least in their essence are honourable, and with inherent dignity.

As many with open eyes can see, there are powerful forces at work today, particularly in the USA, which are acting with the intention to bring about great chaos in your communities, and one way they do this is by using their dogs in the media to try to program the sheeple to see external authorities as purely negative and without any redeeming factors.

Such dichotomies or black and white absolutes, are obviousy false even at a quick glance, and we do no favour to ourselves, or to those we care about, to hold to such black/white bullshit.

When roaming gangs come to the door of you and those you love, a natural instinct for many is to immediately seek the support of external authorities which at least nominally are intended to be in such a role of support.

We are all human, with human failings and human tendencies.

We ought consider carefully the "mainstream media" narratives we are fed, and the foundation intentions which might be underlying the messages put to us.

We each play a role in creating our world, and sitting on the fence "as a mugwud bird, with his mug on one side, and his wud on the other side of that fence, pretending to be impartial" is an actual choice, and in this sense is a very real action, with very real consequences - because you see, he might think he is "impartial", but he still shits on one side of the fence...

Our maker endowed us with some capacity for discrimination, and perhaps now is a useful time to get back to using this power of discrimination, to actively discriminate between right and wrong, truth and bullshit, good and evil.

Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0

8:16 p.m.

On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 11:50:03 +0100 Steven Schear wrote:

...

Many of the problems of police enforcement, especially unwarranted violence, cannot be solved until the human officers are replaced by androids. The almost universal reason for excessive violence are unfit officers and the officer's fear of injury or death. When this is no longer a factor there is no longer a reason for this violence.

hey Steven, is that a conscious attempt at irony/trolling? ...or else...

таракан

8:23 p.m.

...

...
Many of the problems of police enforcement, especially unwarranted violence, cannot be solved until the human officers are replaced by androids.

There is not much difference between a US cop and an android now... same zombie, fanatic I guess... yeah... with police robots will be much better indeed :-) This will solve all issue. Why not also giving them power to make the law like the Judge Dreed character in the US comics ? Or that robocop alternative, 'Cain' aka "you've got fifty seconds to comply" Seriously I wonder why this list is for cypherpunks... People here want robot-cops, praise pro-cops protesters, praise techno-control etc... I'm sorry my understanding of life is ... leave me alone, let me live as I want and don't control me.

Cecilia Tanaka

11:13 p.m.

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 17:24 таракан wrote: <SNIP>

...

Seriously I wonder why this list is for cypherpunks...

This list is for everyone. CypherPunks included, but not exclusive. No censorship about messages, subjects, ideas, people... <3 I'm sorry my understanding of life is ... leave me alone, let me live as I

...

want and don't control me.

Sincere advice: - Avoid serious romantic relationships and living with parents, hahahaha!! ;D I do love living alone since I was a pretty cute girl, but there are always too much bureaucracy, and bills, taxes, home disasters, whatever...

...

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participants (7)

Cecilia Tanaka
Karl
Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0
Steven Schear
Zenaan Harkness
Zig the N.g
таракан