April 2006 - ur-wg - lists.ogf.org

Thinking about the Usage Record
by Donal K. Fellows 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

Hi everyone! What with the cancellation of today's meeting, Matt Ford and I had a little ad hoc meeting discussing the things that bothered us about the specifcation as it currently stands. Now, we're coming from quite different perspectives (despite working at the same site) so it was interesting that there was quite a lot of agreement between us on ways in which it would be nice if the UR spec&schema evolved. So here are some notes based on my recollections of what we talked about: There seems to be confusion about what is going on with the difference between the UsageRecord element and the JobUsageRecord element. That needs to be clarified/cleaned up. Matt wants to be able to describe usage records for things other than atomic computational jobs (especially storage). The composition rules in the schema are waaaay complex! Probably too complex. Many UR parts are only meaningful to computational jobs, most of the rest are generic. Network bandwidth confuses both of us! A bad sign! It would be nice to have composite usage records, but we don't need aggregate URs. A composite should be a UR that has URs inside it, but does not present any aggregate info other than in the most general sense (e.g. "this is the global user identity associated with all this"). Anyone defining an aggregate might derive from this though. We should decide whether we're going to go down the road of having a type system or having highly specified elements. The first approach is the one that seems to be favoured by the OGSA information modelling crowd, and the second is what was eventually adopted by JSDL; I favour the second I must admit, in part because it is easier to build a good ontological model of everything then. Otherwise, you have to figure out how to understand all the ways you can put all the pieces together, when in fact some ways of doing stuff are meaningless. The second approach is also a bit easier to validate in XML Schema (though perhaps a bit more verbose). So, proposal is to divide terms into generic and computational job groups. Then define a parent UR type that just has the generic terms in it, an extension of that which adds the computational job terms, and a separate extension which does the composite/compound record (which might be useful for talking about MPI jobs). Other extensions could be defined in the future (and we'd set the WG up as the nexus for talking about such extensions, in a manner similar to the JSDL-WG is going) but we probably ought to limit ourselves for now. :-) The computational job UR should probably be called POSIXActivtyUR to link in with the vibe around JSDL and BES. That strikes me as being good GGF politics. :-) I've got some notes somewhere on how to make the schema obey all this while tooling up sensibly. Donal (I hope I remembered everything right...)

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UR-WG call today?
by Stephen M Pickles 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

Is anyone (apart from people at Manchester) planning on making the UR-WG call this afternoon? I'll consider the call cancelled one hour before the scheduled start time (which is 2pm British Summer Time) unless I hear from someone before then. Stephen ==================== Stephen M. Pickles ==================== Technical Director, Grid Operations Support Centre Software Infrastructure Manager, RealityGrid Manchester Computing Room G49.1, Kilburn Building The University of Manchester tel: +44 161 275 5974 Oxford Road fax: +44 161 275 6800 Manchester M13 9PL stephen.pickles(a)manchester.ac.uk

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Concall notes posted
by Laura F McGinnis 25 Apr '06

25 Apr '06

The consolidated comments document has been updated and refreshed on the website. It now includes evaluations for all of the comments received. I am working on grouping the comments and evaluations to come up with a plan of attack for getting things resolved. I won't have it ready for Thursday's call, but I expect to have it for May 4th. I won't be able to make the call this week anyway, so it's up to you (all) if you want to have it. I believe Stephen Pickles has offered to lead the call in my absence, so I leave the decision to have the call and any necessary agenda up to him and the rest of the group. Thanks for all the input in getting things this far. I look forward to talking again on the 4th. thx LM ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Laura F. McGinnis, Project Coordinator Data & Information Resource Services Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center email: lfm(a)psc.edu 300 South Craig Street, #313 voice: 412-268-5642 Pittsburgh, PA 15213 fax: 412-268-8200 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Concall tomorrow (Thursday)
by Laura F McGinnis 19 Apr '06

19 Apr '06

The UR-WG will have another conference call tomorrow (Thursday). Details are below. Last week we got through Comment #8 in the consolidated comments document. We will pick up with Comment #9 tomorrow. thx LM >I have scheduled conference calls for the next four weeks, >which will bring us up to GGF 17. > >Dates and times are as follows: > >Thurs 20 Apr, 2006 2:00 PM BST >Thurs 27 Apr, 2006 2:00 PM BST >Thurs 04 May, 2006 2:00 PM BST > >BST is British Summer Time (UTC+1). >(14:00 BST = 09:00 Pittsburgh = 15:00 Sweden and Germany). > >The folowing is the same in all cases: > >Primary Dial-in Number: 0844.888.8888 (UK 5p National Rate) >Alternate Dial-in Numbers: >+44.870.088.5706 (For Callers Outside of the U.K.) >01805.004.102 (For Callers in Germany) >The Participant Access Code is: 61652 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Laura F. McGinnis, Project Coordinator Data & Information Resource Services Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center email: lfm(a)psc.edu 300 South Craig Street, #313 voice: 412-268-5642 Pittsburgh, PA 15213 fax: 412-268-8200 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Concall Notes
by Laura F McGinnis 12 Apr '06

12 Apr '06

The notes from last week's conference call are below, and posted on the UR-WG website (http://www.psc.edu/~lfm/PSC/Grid/UR-WG/) I have also updated the consolidated comments document with the evaluation decisions we made last week. Our next conference call is Thursday, 13-April. Call-in information is available from the UR-WG website. thx LM Conference Call Notes: 06 April 2006 Participants: Stephen Pickles, Donal Fellows, Matt Ford - Manchester Sven van den Berghe - Fujitsu Balazs Konya - NorduGrid Laura McGinnis - Editor Agenda: Purpose: Develop and agree to process for resolving comments Classify Comments Types of Comments Appropriate Responses (for each type) ACTION: Identify comments by type Prioritize Trivial, non-substantive (e.g. "Good job") Substantive Changes, clarifications to the text Changes, clarifications to the definitions Corrections, clarifications to the XML Extensions, enhancements Out of scope requests Schedule - ACTION: set milestone dates · Where do we want to be for Tokyo? · What do we want to use our meeting time for in Tokyo? Notes: Types of Comments Endorsement, non-specific Formatting, editorial Clarification: text XML definitions Change requests XML Validation Use Cases Appropriate Responses (by comment type) Endorsement, non-specific - Editor sends thanks Formatting, editorial - Editor propose correction or solicits further details or clarification from mailing list or commentor. Clarification: text - Editor proposes or corrects XML - XML editor verifies and/or corrects as needed definitions - XML and general editors collaborate to clarify Change requests - XML and commentor should propose changes; WG mailing list needs to grant or deny consensus XML Validation - XML editor will resolve Use Cases - Out of scope for current document, but commentors will be encouraged to test against the specification and report disconnects. ACTION: Identify comments by type - We got through Item 5 in the Consolidated Comments document. The next concall will resume with Item 6. Next Concall: 13 April 2006 (click here for call-in details) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Laura F. McGinnis, Project Coordinator Data & Information Resource Services Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center email: lfm(a)psc.edu 300 South Craig Street, #313 voice: 412-268-5642 Pittsburgh, PA 15213 fax: 412-268-8200 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Forthcoming calls
by Stephen M Pickles 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

I have scheduled conference calls for the next four weeks, which will bring us up to GGF 17. Dates and times are as follows: Thurs 13 Apr, 2006 2:00 PM BST Thurs 20 Apr, 2006 2:00 PM BST Thurs 27 Apr, 2006 2:00 PM BST Thurs 04 May, 2006 2:00 PM BST BST is British Summer Time (UTC+1). (14:00 BST = 09:00 Pittsburgh = 15:00 Sweden and Germany). The folowing is the same in all cases: Primary Dial-in Number: 0844.888.8888 (UK 5p National Rate) Alternate Dial-in Numbers: +44.870.088.5706 (For Callers Outside of the U.K.) 01805.004.102 (For Callers in Germany) The Participant Access Code is: 61652 I've reserved 8 lines and 55 minutes for each. I won't be able to make the call on Thursday 20 April. Stephen ==================== Stephen M. Pickles ==================== Technical Director, Grid Operations Support Centre Manchester Computing Room G49.1, Kilburn Building The University of Manchester tel: +44 161 275 5974 Oxford Road fax: +44 161 275 6800 Manchester M13 9PL stephen.pickles(a)manchester.ac.uk

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UR Document and Comments
by Laura F McGinnis 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

Just to let you know, the UR Specification and consolidated comments are available on the UR-WG website at http://www.psc.edu/~lfm/PSC/Grid/UR-WG/. You may want to have them, esp the comments document, available for the concall. Per Stephen's email, here is the call-in information: >Scheduled Start Time: 14:00 British Summer Time >(09:00 Pittsburgh, 15:00 Sweden and Germany). > >Here are the dial-in numbers: > >Primary Dial-in Number: 0844.888.8888 (UK 5p National Rate) > > +44.870.088.5706 (For Callers Outside of the U.K.) > > 01805.004.102 (For Callers in Germany) > >Participant Access Code: 61652 >(provide this when prompted) thx LM ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Laura F. McGinnis, Project Coordinator Data & Information Resource Services Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center email: lfm(a)psc.edu 300 South Craig Street, #313 voice: 412-268-5642 Pittsburgh, PA 15213 fax: 412-268-8200 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Concall Agenda
by Laura F McGinnis 05 Apr '06

05 Apr '06

Here's what I have in mind for tomorrow: Purpose: Develop and agree to process for resolving comments 1. Classify Comments a. Types of Comments b. Appropriate Responses (for each type) c. ACTION: Identify comments by type 2. Prioritize a. Trivial, non-substantive (e.g. "Good job") b. Substantive i. Changes, clarifications to the text ii. Changes, clarifications to the definitions iii. Corrections, clarifications to the XML c. Extensions, enhancements d. Out of scope requests 3. Schedule - ACTION: set milestone dates Where do we want to be for Tokyo? What do we want to use our meeting time for in Tokyo? This is probably ambitious, so I'll try to not let us get hung up on any specific agenda point. I would like to make sure that the two items listed as "ACTION"s get addressed. thx LM ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Laura F. McGinnis, Project Coordinator Data & Information Resource Services Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center email: lfm(a)psc.edu 300 South Craig Street, #313 voice: 412-268-5642 Pittsburgh, PA 15213 fax: 412-268-8200 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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for the Thursday meeting
by Balazs Konya 05 Apr '06

05 Apr '06

hi, Can someone please remind me about the location of the collected public comments? Also would be nice to have some draft agenda for the Tomorrow meeting. regards, Balazs Konya NorduGrid

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