A few random comments: This illustrates, again, that root trust arrangements are always outside the system. I suspect that the very dynamic VOs that folk consider are usually within the context of some root agreement (e.g. institutions already have an relationship, so one assigns part of its budget to a temporary group). Many dynamic business relationships are like this - I have a framework contract with several suppliers that I've pre-qualified, I can then set up a supply contract with any of those using a lightweight procedure rather than a full contract negotiation. If I'm looking for a supplier I have a choice - either I do it quickly, in which case I don't surf the world I compete within my framework suppliers, or I do it (very) slowly and compete and negotiate a new contract. regards Howard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Martin" <Andrew.Martin@comlab.ox.ac.uk> To: "Doug Olson" <dlolson@lbl.gov> Cc: "Olle Mulmo" <mulmo@pdc.kth.se>; <security-area@ggf.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [security-area] Are we all lawless?
Doug Olson wrote:
Hi Olle, First, I am not a lawyer, so ... Even so, in the VO's that I am familiar with, largish physics experiments, the VO is formed by agreements between the institutions that employ the people who decide to be part of the VO.
That seems to be the way with most VOs I've heard of - a far cry from the dynamic on-the-fly set-up many people are talking about and building software to support.
The institutions are legal entities but the agreements that form the VO are not necesarily legally binding and the VO itself has no legal status, it is not something which can be sued, files no tax returns, etc.
Where there is commercial value - or legal issues over privacy, say - the agreements do have to be stronger, with lawyers and redress, and so on. When such a VO becomes very real joint venture, I don't know - better ask a lawyer.
Making a grid set-up where you can negotiate such things in software and have them adequately legally binding ... seems some way off.
My 2c.
I'm down under right now, so that had better be my AU$0.02. But here there are no 2c coins, so they'd round it down to zero.
Andrew.