Peter Kunszt <Peter.Kunszt@cern.ch> Kalman Kovari <Kalman.Kovari@cern.ch> - The examples are sometimes more misleading than useful... -> why? - The error handling and error semantics are not defined well enough. This is essential in order to assure proper interoperability. -> compile list of error codes, check for consistency - There is a lack of structure in terms of interface layering. High level interfaces (like JobManagement) and low level interfaces (like Stream) are not distinguished, motivated, or put into context. E.g. why is there a need of a networkstream-level interface for a grid application? -> intentional, see use cases! - Example (P18): OO structured, not like the iface. (eg. i = dir.getNumEntries() instead of dir.getNumEntries(a) ? ) -> ? - Example (P29): an exact copy of Ex. 1. -> check - Description - Streams (P62): close or destroyStream? maybe close, but not consistent. -> see Notes in Streams - General: sometimes bitwise OR-s are used for multiple options (Stream/ActivityType, P59), sometimes arrays of values (NameSpace/CopyFlags, P9). Why no convention? -> I agree, bitwise OR is simplier - Interface NSDir: what are the semantics of the copy method? of getName and getURL? -> ? Thorsten Sch"utt: - isFile -> isEntry? -> should we revive NSEntry (more reasons?)? - SIDL docs on wiki! -> TODO - fix all examples in respect to session and context -> TODO - flags -> see above - Attribute -> AttributeSet -> leave naming, but better describe idea Steven Newhouse: - Inconsistent use of security! Its only in the stream section, nowhere else. "Not specifying a security system makes sense, but I think all of thes emethods should have a security token being passed into them or it should be an argument in the relevant object constructor." -> should be fixed by session and context - I assume the URL can support a number of protocols - http/https/file/gridftp. I see no way to register plugins in the interface (may be this is an 'internal' interface as opposed to a user funtion. Maybe there needs to be aet of interfaces to help the developers, e.g. register protocol plugins. -> plugin: implementation level -> url support: util class? any://? - State example language each time! Do examples in multiple languages! -> TODO - How are you going to handle partial functionality implementations? Should _all_ operations support a NotImplementedException ? Should there be a standard static method in each section to discover what is implemented? e.g. supported protocols & supported methods. -> methods need ALL to be implemented. -> protocols etc: hmmm... - You have an 'LSF' schema for >>, >, < & <<. But in the file/directory area you use a series of attribute flags. I think you should carry these attribute flags forward into the job definition area - either way I think you should have one model not two! -> Chris, Andre: resolve! - I. General Model. Language mapping. Standard attribute model. Security. Tasks II. Tier 1 Interfaces. III. Tier 2 and above Interfaces. -> II and III on same level! - What is to come in version 2? -> - steering and monitoring - possibly combining logical/physical files (read on logical files) - advert service - GridRPC - GridCPR - Task dependencies (simple work flows and batches) - extensions to existing classes - we have no explicit roadmap!! Others: - 'The URL Problem' -> should we approach it? - advert service -> easy: NS + Attribute + find on attribute! why not do it? - find in name spaces? -> why not, at least for names!? But over attributes? What about query language then? Andre: - list only on dir - why not on file? - go from getSize to real stat - namespace ops on files - why not on wildcards? - should callbacks be introduced for some things? Best on tasks, but also for streams (is factory!) Necessary for monitoring/streaming, so best introduce in general... - integrate GridRPC / GridCPR / JSDL? What else? - check if bulk operations can be done with task containers (explicit support needef for argument list generations?) - ACLs - Authorization (call outs?) - task = ftf.read (1, buffer, &n); task.run (); When are 'n' and 'buffer' available? I would say after wait. GGF14: - who sends UC doc to editors? +-------------------------------------------------------------+
During the phone call, we annotated part of the list with TODOs and comments. Here it is for archiving purposes, you can also find it in CVS. The call was joined by - Tom Goodale - Christopher Smith - Shantenu Jha - Thomasz Haupt - Andre Merzky The next call will be in two weeks, Thursday July 21st, same time. Cheers, Andre. Quoting [Tom Goodale] (Jul 07 2005):
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 10:22:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Goodale <goodale@cct.lsu.edu> To: saga-rg@ggf.org Subject: [saga-rg] Current issue list
Peter Kunszt <Peter.Kunszt@cern.ch> Kalman Kovari <Kalman.Kovari@cern.ch>
- The examples are sometimes more misleading than useful...
-> why?
- The error handling and error semantics are not defined well enough. This is essential in order to assure proper interoperability.
-> compile list of error codes, check for consistency
- There is a lack of structure in terms of interface layering. High level interfaces (like JobManagement) and low level interfaces (like Stream) are not distinguished, motivated, or put into context. E.g. why is there a need of a networkstream-level interface for a grid application?
-> intentional, see use cases!
- Example (P18): OO structured, not like the iface. (eg. i = dir.getNumEntries() instead of dir.getNumEntries(a) ? )
-> ?
- Example (P29): an exact copy of Ex. 1.
-> check
- Description - Streams (P62): close or destroyStream? maybe close, but not consistent.
-> see Notes in Streams
- General: sometimes bitwise OR-s are used for multiple options (Stream/ActivityType, P59), sometimes arrays of values (NameSpace/CopyFlags, P9). Why no convention?
-> I agree, bitwise OR is simplier
- Interface NSDir: what are the semantics of the copy method? of getName and getURL?
-> ?
Thorsten Sch"utt:
- isFile -> isEntry?
-> should we revive NSEntry (more reasons?)?
- SIDL docs on wiki!
-> TODO
- fix all examples in respect to session and context
-> TODO
- flags
-> see above
- Attribute -> AttributeSet
-> leave naming, but better describe idea
Steven Newhouse:
- Inconsistent use of security! Its only in the stream section, nowhere else. "Not specifying a security system makes sense, but I think all of thes emethods should have a security token being passed into them or it should be an argument in the relevant object constructor."
-> should be fixed by session and context
- I assume the URL can support a number of protocols - http/https/file/gridftp. I see no way to register plugins in the interface (may be this is an 'internal' interface as opposed to a user funtion. Maybe there needs to be aet of interfaces to help the developers, e.g. register protocol plugins.
-> plugin: implementation level -> url support: util class? any://?
- State example language each time! Do examples in multiple languages!
-> TODO
- How are you going to handle partial functionality implementations? Should _all_ operations support a NotImplementedException ? Should there be a standard static method in each section to discover what is implemented? e.g. supported protocols & supported methods.
-> methods need ALL to be implemented. -> protocols etc: hmmm...
- You have an 'LSF' schema for >>, >, < & <<. But in the file/directory area you use a series of attribute flags. I think you should carry these attribute flags forward into the job definition area - either way I think you should have one model not two!
-> Chris, Andre: resolve!
- I. General Model. Language mapping. Standard attribute model. Security. Tasks II. Tier 1 Interfaces. III. Tier 2 and above Interfaces.
-> II and III on same level!
- What is to come in version 2?
-> - steering and monitoring - possibly combining logical/physical files (read on logical files) - advert service - GridRPC - GridCPR - Task dependencies (simple work flows and batches) - extensions to existing classes - we have no explicit roadmap!!
Others:
- 'The URL Problem'
-> should we approach it?
- advert service
-> easy: NS + Attribute + find on attribute! why not do it?
- find in name spaces?
-> why not, at least for names!? But over attributes? What about query language then?
Andre: - list only on dir - why not on file?
- go from getSize to real stat
- namespace ops on files - why not on wildcards?
- should callbacks be introduced for some things? Best on tasks, but also for streams (is factory!) Necessary for monitoring/streaming, so best introduce in general...
- integrate GridRPC / GridCPR / JSDL? What else?
- check if bulk operations can be done with task containers (explicit support needef for argument list generations?)
- ACLs
- Authorization (call outs?)
- task = ftf.read (1, buffer, &n); task.run ();
When are 'n' and 'buffer' available? I would say after wait.
GGF14: - who sends UC doc to editors?
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
-- +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Andre Merzky | phon: +31 - 20 - 598 - 7759 | | Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam (VU) | fax : +31 - 20 - 598 - 7653 | | Dept. of Computer Science | mail: merzky@cs.vu.nl | | De Boelelaan 1083a | www: http://www.merzky.net | | 1081 HV Amsterdam, Netherlands | | +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
About the issue cited below: our java people think that bitmask are not that common in Java, but would feel comfortable with any API spec defining bitmasks, as they are easy enough to implement, and not considered ugly really. I got no other proposal from tyhem for defining flags, so I think bitmasks it is -- unless there are other opinions on this list (last calls!). We checked the file permision stuff in Java, can you imagin what they do? A _string_ containing a comma separated list of keywords, such as "read, write" - ugh! ;-) Cheers, Andre.
- General: sometimes bitwise OR-s are used for multiple options (Stream/ActivityType, P59), sometimes arrays of values (NameSpace/CopyFlags, P9). Why no convention?
-> I agree, bitwise OR is simplier -> TODO ANDRE: check for languages, fix
-- +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Andre Merzky | phon: +31 - 20 - 598 - 7759 | | Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam (VU) | fax : +31 - 20 - 598 - 7653 | | Dept. of Computer Science | mail: merzky@cs.vu.nl | | De Boelelaan 1083a | www: http://www.merzky.net | | 1081 HV Amsterdam, Netherlands | | +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
participants (2)
-
Andre Merzky -
Tom Goodale