Hi, My apologies if this is referring to an old discussion, but here goes ... UNICORE supports the concept of an "abstract" hosted application. This means that an application is installed on a remote execution host, and can be referred to via a name, rather than a path to the executable. In JSDL this would look something like: ================================================== <jsdl:JobDescription> <jsdl:Application> <jsdl:ApplicationName>Bash shell</jsdl:ApplicationName> <jsdl:ApplicationVersion>3.1.16</jsdl:ApplicationVersion> <jsdl1:POSIXApplication xmlns:jsdl1="http://schemas.ggf.org/jsdl/2005/11/jsdl-posix"> <jsdl1:Environment name="SOURCE">input.sh</jsdl1:Environment> </jsdl1:POSIXApplication> </jsdl:Application> </jsdl:JobDescription> ================================================== Any thoughts of how I could support this at the SAGA level? The SAGA job description defines an EXECUTABLE property, but I'm assuming this has to be an actual path. Regards, Malcolm. ---------------------------------------------------- |epcc| - Malcolm Illingworth EPCC, University of Edinburgh James Clerk Maxwell Building Mayfield Road E-mail: malcolm@epcc.ed.ac.uk Edinburgh EH9 3JZ Phone: + 44 (0) 131 651 3388 United Kingdom Fax: + 44 (0) 131 650 6555 -------------------------------------------------------------
Malcolm, I am not fully understanding your example. Can you please add what would actually be executed given this piece of JSDL? I am wondering whether a relative path would be "good enough" or what else would be missing? The "other end of the spectrum" would be to use the RPC package but this might be overkill. Curious... Thilo On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 02:35:25PM +0100, Malcolm Illingworth wrote:
From: Malcolm Illingworth <malcolm@epcc.ed.ac.uk> To: 'SAGA RG' <saga-rg@ogf.org> Subject: [SAGA-RG] Hosted applications
Hi,
My apologies if this is referring to an old discussion, but here goes ...
UNICORE supports the concept of an "abstract" hosted application. This means that an application is installed on a remote execution host, and can be referred to via a name, rather than a path to the executable. In JSDL this would look something like:
================================================== <jsdl:JobDescription> <jsdl:Application> <jsdl:ApplicationName>Bash shell</jsdl:ApplicationName> <jsdl:ApplicationVersion>3.1.16</jsdl:ApplicationVersion> <jsdl1:POSIXApplication xmlns:jsdl1="http://schemas.ggf.org/jsdl/2005/11/jsdl-posix"> <jsdl1:Environment name="SOURCE">input.sh</jsdl1:Environment> </jsdl1:POSIXApplication> </jsdl:Application> </jsdl:JobDescription> ==================================================
Any thoughts of how I could support this at the SAGA level? The SAGA job description defines an EXECUTABLE property, but I'm assuming this has to be an actual path.
Regards, Malcolm.
---------------------------------------------------- |epcc| -
Malcolm Illingworth EPCC, University of Edinburgh James Clerk Maxwell Building Mayfield Road E-mail: malcolm@epcc.ed.ac.uk Edinburgh EH9 3JZ Phone: + 44 (0) 131 651 3388 United Kingdom Fax: + 44 (0) 131 650 6555
-------------------------------------------------------------
-- saga-rg mailing list saga-rg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/saga-rg
-- Thilo Kielmann http://www.cs.vu.nl/~kielmann/
Hi Thilo, I'm afraid its rather a contrived example. This would execute a bash script using the bash environment. The idea is that UNICORE supports "applications as a service". For example, imagine an application installed at a large number of sites. Different sites might install the application in different locations, eg for local operating reasons. To avoid the user having to know the location at each site, UNICORE can expose the application as a "service" at each site. So, another contrived example could be as follows: <jsdl:JobDescription> <jsdl:Application> <jsdl:ApplicationName>CPMD</jsdl:ApplicationName> <jsdl:ApplicationVersion>3.1.16</jsdl:ApplicationVersion> <jsdl1:POSIXApplication xmlns:jsdl1="http://schemas.ggf.org/jsdl/2005/11/jsdl-posix"> <jsdl1:Environment name="INPUT_DATA">mydata.dat</jsdl1:Environment> </jsdl1:POSIXApplication> </jsdl:Application> </jsdl:JobDescription> This would run a CPMD instance, without the user having to know the exact or even relative location of the application. Hope this makes things a bit clearer? Malcolm. (ps perhaps this is overlapping with the service discovery API?) -----Original Message----- From: Thilo Kielmann [mailto:kielmann@cs.vu.nl] Sent: 25 August 2008 17:39 To: Malcolm Illingworth Subject: Re: [SAGA-RG] Hosted applications Malcolm, I am not fully understanding your example. Can you please add what would actually be executed given this piece of JSDL? I am wondering whether a relative path would be "good enough" or what else would be missing? The "other end of the spectrum" would be to use the RPC package but this might be overkill. Curious... Thilo On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 02:35:25PM +0100, Malcolm Illingworth wrote:
From: Malcolm Illingworth <malcolm@epcc.ed.ac.uk> To: 'SAGA RG' <saga-rg@ogf.org> Subject: [SAGA-RG] Hosted applications
Hi,
My apologies if this is referring to an old discussion, but here goes ...
UNICORE supports the concept of an "abstract" hosted application. This means that an application is installed on a remote execution host, and can be referred to via a name, rather than a path to the executable. In JSDL this would look something like:
================================================== <jsdl:JobDescription> <jsdl:Application> <jsdl:ApplicationName>Bash shell</jsdl:ApplicationName> <jsdl:ApplicationVersion>3.1.16</jsdl:ApplicationVersion> <jsdl1:POSIXApplication xmlns:jsdl1="http://schemas.ggf.org/jsdl/2005/11/jsdl-posix"> <jsdl1:Environment name="SOURCE">input.sh</jsdl1:Environment> </jsdl1:POSIXApplication> </jsdl:Application> </jsdl:JobDescription> ==================================================
Any thoughts of how I could support this at the SAGA level? The SAGA job description defines an EXECUTABLE property, but I'm assuming this has to be an actual path.
Regards, Malcolm.
---------------------------------------------------- |epcc| -
Malcolm Illingworth EPCC, University of Edinburgh James Clerk Maxwell Building Mayfield Road E-mail: malcolm@epcc.ed.ac.uk Edinburgh EH9 3JZ Phone: + 44 (0) 131 651 3388 United Kingdom Fax: + 44 (0) 131 650 6555
-------------------------------------------------------------
-- saga-rg mailing list saga-rg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/saga-rg
-- Thilo Kielmann http://www.cs.vu.nl/~kielmann/
There is also a bit of overlap here with the Application Template done in the HPC Profile WG. http://forge.gridforum.org/sf/docman/do/downloadDocument/projects.ogsa-hpcp-... The main goal of this spec is to reduce the amount of info the user has to specify in a JSDL document and let the system admin provide (server side) the details needed to run a particular admin on a local cluster. Steven
-----Original Message----- From: saga-rg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:saga-rg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Malcolm Illingworth Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:15 AM To: 'SAGA RG' Subject: Re: [SAGA-RG] Hosted applications
Hi Thilo,
I'm afraid its rather a contrived example. This would execute a bash script using the bash environment.
The idea is that UNICORE supports "applications as a service". For example, imagine an application installed at a large number of sites. Different sites might install the application in different locations, eg for local operating reasons. To avoid the user having to know the location at each site, UNICORE can expose the application as a "service" at each site. So, another contrived example could be as follows:
<jsdl:JobDescription> <jsdl:Application> <jsdl:ApplicationName>CPMD</jsdl:ApplicationName> <jsdl:ApplicationVersion>3.1.16</jsdl:ApplicationVersion> <jsdl1:POSIXApplication xmlns:jsdl1="http://schemas.ggf.org/jsdl/2005/11/jsdl-posix"> <jsdl1:Environment name="INPUT_DATA">mydata.dat</jsdl1:Environment> </jsdl1:POSIXApplication> </jsdl:Application> </jsdl:JobDescription>
This would run a CPMD instance, without the user having to know the exact or even relative location of the application.
Hope this makes things a bit clearer?
Malcolm. (ps perhaps this is overlapping with the service discovery API?)
-----Original Message----- From: Thilo Kielmann [mailto:kielmann@cs.vu.nl] Sent: 25 August 2008 17:39 To: Malcolm Illingworth Subject: Re: [SAGA-RG] Hosted applications
Malcolm,
I am not fully understanding your example. Can you please add what would actually be executed given this piece of JSDL?
I am wondering whether a relative path would be "good enough" or what else would be missing? The "other end of the spectrum" would be to use the RPC package but this might be overkill.
Curious...
Thilo
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 02:35:25PM +0100, Malcolm Illingworth wrote:
From: Malcolm Illingworth <malcolm@epcc.ed.ac.uk> To: 'SAGA RG' <saga-rg@ogf.org> Subject: [SAGA-RG] Hosted applications
Hi,
My apologies if this is referring to an old discussion, but here goes ...
UNICORE supports the concept of an "abstract" hosted application. This means that an application is installed on a remote execution host, and can be referred to via a name, rather than a path to the executable. In JSDL this would look something like:
================================================== <jsdl:JobDescription> <jsdl:Application> <jsdl:ApplicationName>Bash shell</jsdl:ApplicationName> <jsdl:ApplicationVersion>3.1.16</jsdl:ApplicationVersion> <jsdl1:POSIXApplication xmlns:jsdl1="http://schemas.ggf.org/jsdl/2005/11/jsdl-posix"> <jsdl1:Environment name="SOURCE">input.sh</jsdl1:Environment> </jsdl1:POSIXApplication> </jsdl:Application> </jsdl:JobDescription> ==================================================
Any thoughts of how I could support this at the SAGA level? The SAGA job description defines an EXECUTABLE property, but I'm assuming this has to be an actual path.
Regards, Malcolm.
---------------------------------------------------- |epcc| -
Malcolm Illingworth EPCC, University of Edinburgh James Clerk Maxwell Building Mayfield Road E-mail: malcolm@epcc.ed.ac.uk Edinburgh EH9 3JZ Phone: + 44 (0) 131 651 3388 United Kingdom Fax: + 44 (0) 131 650 6555
-------------------------------------------------------------
-- saga-rg mailing list saga-rg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/saga-rg
-- Thilo Kielmann http://www.cs.vu.nl/~kielmann/
-- saga-rg mailing list saga-rg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/saga-rg
Hi Malcolm, Thilo, Steven, Quoting [Malcolm Illingworth] (Aug 25 2008):
Hi,
My apologies if this is referring to an old discussion, but here goes ...
UNICORE supports the concept of an "abstract" hosted application. This means that an application is installed on a remote execution host, and can be referred to via a name, rather than a path to the executable. In JSDL this would look something like:
================================================== <jsdl:JobDescription> <jsdl:Application> <jsdl:ApplicationName>Bash shell</jsdl:ApplicationName> <jsdl:ApplicationVersion>3.1.16</jsdl:ApplicationVersion> <jsdl1:POSIXApplication xmlns:jsdl1="http://schemas.ggf.org/jsdl/2005/11/jsdl-posix"> <jsdl1:Environment name="SOURCE">input.sh</jsdl1:Environment> </jsdl1:POSIXApplication> </jsdl:Application> </jsdl:JobDescription> ==================================================
Any thoughts of how I could support this at the SAGA level? The SAGA job description defines an EXECUTABLE property, but I'm assuming this has to be an actual path.
Interesting problem! I am afraid that at the moment, that would not directly be supported by SAGA. You could abuse the Executable attribute in the job description, and set it to something like 'Executable=ApplicationName:Bash shell (3.1.16)', for your example above, but that would indded be an abuse. The clean SAGA way would be, IMHO, to extend the job package to accept not only a job_description, but also an application_description with the appropriate fields (name, version, environment, candidatehosts, ...), and additionally to allow to create these application descriptions via some discovery mechanism (the service discovery for example). My 2 cent, Andre. -- Nothing is ever easy.
participants (4)
-
Andre Merzky -
Malcolm Illingworth -
Steven Newhouse -
Thilo Kielmann