Hi,
- The "composability" and "profilability" of these specs are not trivial at all.
I agree here that this too much modular approach - the "composability" - actually breaks significantly the interoperability, but if we profile (in PGI) what is mandatory of which specification, so this point could be solved. Nevertheless you are right: we having huge dependencies to a lot of specifications, while we have already problems with BES/GES, we even not entered the space of JSDL with much more specs and options... .. also the list from Andrew lists new specs where the most production middlewares have not much experience with (RNS, WS-Naming, etc.) - My initial thought about PGI was to take what was existing (also BES) and only profile/add minor elements. Although I see the requirement that those standards could handle, my question would be of how realistic an implementation would be if we go for a complete new setup...
-The other alternative is to go for a clean spec.
------Original Message----- -From: pgi-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:pgi-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of -Balazs Konya -Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:01 AM -To: Etienne URBAH; pgi-wg@ogf.org -Cc: Andrew GRIMSHAW; edges-na3@mail.edges-grid.eu; lodygens@lal.in2p3.fr -Subject: Re: [Pgi-wg] PGI Execution Service - Realization viaexisting specifications - -Dear Etienne, - -With your long list of "to-be-profiled" specifications that you collected from -Andrew's proposal you made a very important point: - -The "composability" and "profilability" of these specs are not trivial at all. - -We saw that an entire OGF WG had to be set up just to synchronize the BES/JSDL -(the HPC-BP group). And that process was slow and painful. - -Now we are talking about the extension/re-engineering of BES/JSDL AND the -profiling of the new BES-1.2 JSDL-1.2 specs together with GLUE2 AND trying to -make all these stuff satisfy the complex requirements around data staging. -Plus add the other specs i did not mention here but you put into your
Maybe faster, but would have a lot of redundancies to other specs where we might just 'borrow' what they have already. I guess it's worth having another look on the PGI Wiki related to the different pro/cons (once gridforge is up again)... Hear you later, Morris ------------------------------------------------------------ Morris Riedel SW - Engineer Distributed Systems and Grid Computing Division Jülich Supercomputing Centre (JSC) Forschungszentrum Juelich Wilhelm-Johnen-Str. 1 D - 52425 Juelich Germany Email: m.riedel@fz-juelich.de Info: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/JSCPeople/riedel Phone: +49 2461 61 - 3651 Fax: +49 2461 61 - 6656 Skype: MorrisRiedel "We work to better ourselves, and the rest of humanity" Sitz der Gesellschaft: Jülich Eingetragen im Handelsregister des Amtsgerichts Düren Nr. HR B 3498 Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: MinDirig'in Bärbel Brumme-Bothe Vorstand: Prof. Dr. Achim Bachem (Vorsitzender), Dr. Ulrich Krafft (stellv. Vorsitzender) list.
- -The other alternative is to go for a clean spec. - -bye, -Balazs Konya - -Etienne URBAH wrote: -> Andrew, -> -> Concerning the PGI Execution Service : -> -> Thank you very much for your 'GES Realization via Existing -> Specifications.doc' proposal, which targets 'as small a specification as -> possible and attempt to use existing specifications and mechanisms when -> it makes sense.' -> -> In order for your document to be really useful, we all have to carefully -> check if all 'existing specifications and mechanisms' referred by your -> document are : -> - compatible between each other, -> - really implementable, -> - at an affordable cost. -> -> In order to ease this checks, I propose below links for the 'existing -> specifications and mechanisms referred by your document', and I ask you -> to : -> - verify if my links are accurate, -> - provide the accurate links inside the next version of your document. -> -> WS-Addressing : -> http://www.w3.org/Submission/2004/SUBM-ws-addressing-20040810/ -> -> WS-Naming : http://www.ogf.org/documents/GFD.109.pdf -> -> OGSA-WSRF-BSP : http://www.ogf.org/documents/GFD.138.pdf -> TO BE VERIFIED -> -> JSDL : http://www.ogf.org/documents/GFD.136.pdf -> -> OGSA-BES : ATTENTION, you are NOT referring to recommendation -> GDF.108, but on 17 April 2009, you sent us DRAFT v32 -> 'ogsa-bes-v32.doc', and you are now referring to -> DRAFT v27, which has NO link inside -> http://forge.gridforum.org/sf/docman/do/listDocuments/projects.ogsa-bes- -wg/docman.root.current_drafts -> -> Could we use DRAFT v38, which is Version 3 at -> http://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc15062?nav=1 ? -> -> HPC-BP : http://www.ogf.org/documents/GFD.114.pdf -> -> HPC-BP FSE : http://www.ogf.org/documents/GFD.135.pdf -> -> RNS : http://www.ogf.org/documents/GFD.101.pdf -> -> -> Thank you in advance. -> -> Best regards. -> -> ----------------------------------------------------- -> Etienne URBAH LAL, Univ Paris-Sud, IN2P3/CNRS -> Bat 200 91898 ORSAY France -> Tel: +33 1 64 46 84 87 Skype: etienne.urbah -> Mob: +33 6 22 30 53 27 mailto:urbah@lal.in2p3.fr -> ----------------------------------------------------- -> -> -> On Tue, 12 May 2009, Andrew Grimshaw wrote: ->> Colleagues, ->> ->> Last week I promised to deliver a document for discussion tomorrow on ->> how to use existing specification (and profiles on those ->> specifications) to realize the requirements in the April 29 draft GES ->> info document. Attached is a word file that sketches out the solution. ->> The document is not intended to be published it is to organize a ->> discussion and give you insight into my proposed solution to the ->> requirements. ->> ->> I have also carefully read the GES document and have a number of ->> comments on that as well. I will be sending it later today or ->> tomorrow. My comments on the GES are not necessary to understand the ->> realization document. I also encourage you to read the ISV primer. ->> ->> Andrew - --- -Balázs Kónya - -NorduGrid Collaboration -http://www.nordugrid.org - -Lund University balazs.konya@hep.lu.se -High Energy Physics phone: +46 46 222 8049 -BOX 118, S - 221 00 LUND, Sweden fax: +46 46 222 4015 -_______________________________________________ -Pgi-wg mailing list -Pgi-wg@ogf.org -http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/pgi-wg