March 2010 - pgi-wg - lists.ogf.org

Keep HPC-BP Demo alive with monthly telcons
by Morris Riedel 16 Mar '10

16 Mar '10

Hi folks, I had some discussions with several people here at OGF and we thought that it makes sense to have at least one telcon per month under the GIN umbrella to keep the HPC-BP demonstration alive and discuss possible extensions in terms of middlewares/standards/applications. One aim of this would be to make the demo more mature and stable in order to show it at numerous events w/o high preparation efforts. Before I will ask for a specific date I'm open to hear your opinions on this and/or any further suggestions. Take care, Morris ------------------------------------------------------------ Morris Riedel Distributed Systems and Grid Computing Division Jülich Supercomputing Centre (JSC) Info: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/JSCPeople/riedel

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PGI@OGF28 Reminder
by Morris Riedel 12 Mar '10

12 Mar '10

Dear PGI folks, we will have three PGI sessions and one workshop (Friday/Saturday) at OGF28: (1) PGI Session One will be at 10:30 a.m. on Tuesday 16th of March http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=1945 (2) PGI Session Two will be at 3:00 p.m. on Tuesday 16th of March http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=1946 (3) PGI Session Three will be at 5:00 p.m. on Tuesday 16th of March http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=1947 (4) The workshop will take place on Friday & Saturday at OGF and is not on the schedule, but information can be found on the PGI Wiki Page: http://forge.gridforum.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.pgi-wg/wiki/OGF28PGI Workshop Your co-chair, Morris ----------------------------------------------------------- Morris Riedel Distributed Systems and Grid Computing Division Jülich Supercomputing Centre (JSC) Info: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/JSCPeople/riedel

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GIN@OGF28 Reminder
by Morris Riedel 12 Mar '10

12 Mar '10

Dear GIN folks, we will have two GIN sessions at OGF28: (1) GIN Update Session will be at 9:00 a.m. (not 11:00) on Monday 15th of March http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=1944 (2) GIN Demo Session will be at 11:00 a.m. (not 9:00) on Monday 15th of March http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=1943 Note that although I requested to flip both sessions it is not yet correctly in the schedule. Therefore keep in mind that we have first the update session and then the demonstrations so. Your co-chair, Morris ------------------------------------------------------------ Morris Riedel Distributed Systems and Grid Computing Division Jülich Supercomputing Centre (JSC) Info: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/JSCPeople/riedel

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Re: [Pgi-wg] [gin] Reminder & Agenda: PGI Telcon Today 2010-03-11; 3:30 pm CET
by Morris Riedel 11 Mar '10

11 Mar '10

Bad news - we lost hidef conference facilities from ARC... so let's try again the DFN one. Take care, Morris >-- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >-- Von: pgi-wg-bounces(a)ogf.org [mailto:pgi-wg-bounces@ogf.org] Im Auftrag von >-- Morris Riedel >-- Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. März 2010 13:09 >-- An: Pgi-wg(a)ogf.org >-- Betreff: Re: [Pgi-wg] [gin] Reminder & Agenda: PGI Telcon Today 2010-03-11; >-- 3:30 pm CET >-- >-- Hi team, >-- >-- gLite, GENESIS and UNICORE agree on using EPRs and for today we agreed >-- that members of ARC (i.e. Balazs, Aleksander) fill in some drawbacks of EPRs >-- in the WIKI. >-- >-- Currently I don't see any point against EPRs in the wiki: >-- http://forge.gridforum.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.pgi-wg/wiki/Executio >-- nServicePoints >-- >-- Please do so before the Telcon - otherwise we can say YES to EPRs because >-- the majority votes for it, has experience with it, and we have no counter >-- statements. >-- >-- We need to make progress - so an agreement on EPRs here is a good step >-- forward and would be a good outcome of the call today. >-- >-- Take care, >-- Morris >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >-- >-- Von: gin-bounces(a)ogf.org [mailto:gin-bounces@ogf.org] Im Auftrag von >-- Morris >-- >-- Riedel >-- >-- Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. März 2010 13:03 >-- >-- An: Pgi-wg(a)ogf.org >-- >-- Cc: gin(a)ogf.org >-- >-- Betreff: [gin] Reminder & Agenda: PGI Telcon Today 2010-03-11; 3:30 >-- >pm >-- CET >-- >-- >-- >-- Hi folks, >-- >-- >-- >-- today will be a PGI telcon as planned. >-- >-- >-- >-- (1) >-- >-- Numbers: >-- >-- >-- >-- we are using: >-- >-- via Skype call +9900827049931906 (free of charge), ordinary phone >-- numbers >-- >-- (local rates) with the 9931906 conference number: >-- >-- >-- >-- Austria 0820 401 15470 >-- >-- Belgium 0703 57 134 >-- >-- France 0826 109 071 >-- >-- Germany +49 (0) 180 500 9527 >-- >-- Switzerland 0848 560 397 >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- (2) >-- >-- Screen-Sharing: >-- >-- >-- >-- http://webconf.vc.dfn.de/ogf-pgi-wg/ >-- >-- >-- >-- No login is required. Just enter as 'guest' with your real world name. >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- (3) >-- >-- Proposed agenda: >-- >-- >-- >-- (a) >-- >-- Review Minutes last week >-- >-- >-- >-- (b) >-- >-- Review action items >-- >-- >-- >-- (c) >-- >-- Continue EPR discussions and agree on addressing approach >-- >-- >-- >-- (d) >-- >-- AOB >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- High participation is appreciated >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- >-- Your co-chair, >-- >-- Morris >-- >-- >-- >-- ------------------------------------------------------------ >-- >-- Morris Riedel >-- >-- Distributed Systems and Grid Computing Division >-- >-- >-- >-- Jülich Supercomputing Centre (JSC) >-- >-- Info: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/JSCPeople/riedel >-- >-- >-- >--

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Re: [Pgi-wg] [gin] Reminder & Agenda: PGI Telcon Today 2010-03-11; 3:30 pm CET
by Andrew Grimshaw 11 Mar '10

11 Mar '10

All, I cannot make the call, I have another meeting. However, if one is using web services, then EPRs are the way to go, unambiguously. It is important to keep in mind that they are not intended for human consumption! They are XML data structures that can potentially carry quite a bit of information beyond the address:to field useful both to clients (metadata) and service implementations about context (reference parameters). That information can include a unique ID as was being discussed in the email thread, security information such as public keys, or policy information, or even information on how to rebind the service if the service appears dead. A -----Original Message----- From: pgi-wg-bounces(a)ogf.org [mailto:pgi-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Morris Riedel Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 7:09 AM To: Pgi-wg(a)ogf.org Subject: Re: [Pgi-wg] [gin] Reminder & Agenda: PGI Telcon Today 2010-03-11; 3:30 pm CET Hi team, gLite, GENESIS and UNICORE agree on using EPRs and for today we agreed that members of ARC (i.e. Balazs, Aleksander) fill in some drawbacks of EPRs in the WIKI. Currently I don't see any point against EPRs in the wiki: http://forge.gridforum.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.pgi-wg/wiki/Executio nServicePoints Please do so before the Telcon - otherwise we can say YES to EPRs because the majority votes for it, has experience with it, and we have no counter statements. We need to make progress - so an agreement on EPRs here is a good step forward and would be a good outcome of the call today. Take care, Morris >-- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >-- Von: gin-bounces(a)ogf.org [mailto:gin-bounces@ogf.org] Im Auftrag von Morris >-- Riedel >-- Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. März 2010 13:03 >-- An: Pgi-wg(a)ogf.org >-- Cc: gin(a)ogf.org >-- Betreff: [gin] Reminder & Agenda: PGI Telcon Today 2010-03-11; 3:30 >pm CET >-- >-- Hi folks, >-- >-- today will be a PGI telcon as planned. >-- >-- (1) >-- Numbers: >-- >-- we are using: >-- via Skype call +9900827049931906 (free of charge), ordinary phone numbers >-- (local rates) with the 9931906 conference number: >-- >-- Austria 0820 401 15470 >-- Belgium 0703 57 134 >-- France 0826 109 071 >-- Germany +49 (0) 180 500 9527 >-- Switzerland 0848 560 397 >-- >-- >-- >-- (2) >-- Screen-Sharing: >-- >-- http://webconf.vc.dfn.de/ogf-pgi-wg/ >-- >-- No login is required. Just enter as 'guest' with your real world name. >-- >-- >-- >-- (3) >-- Proposed agenda: >-- >-- (a) >-- Review Minutes last week >-- >-- (b) >-- Review action items >-- >-- (c) >-- Continue EPR discussions and agree on addressing approach >-- >-- (d) >-- AOB >-- >-- >-- High participation is appreciated >-- >-- >-- Your co-chair, >-- Morris >-- >-- ------------------------------------------------------------ >-- Morris Riedel >-- Distributed Systems and Grid Computing Division >-- >-- Jülich Supercomputing Centre (JSC) >-- Info: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/JSCPeople/riedel >-- >--

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PGI Workshop F2F Room A016
by Morris Riedel 11 Mar '10

11 Mar '10

Hi team, I just got the info about the room number (i.e. A016) that is assigned for our F2F: http://forge.gridforum.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.pgi-wg/wiki/OGF28PG… Your co-chair, Morris ------------------------------------------------------------ Morris Riedel Distributed Systems and Grid Computing Division Jülich Supercomputing Centre (JSC) Info: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/JSCPeople/riedel

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On EPR (Was: Reminder & Agenda: PGI Telcon Today 2010-03-11; 3:30 pm CET)
by Oxana Smirnova 11 Mar '10

11 Mar '10

Hi Morris, all, I don't think there is any fundamental objection against EPR as such; the controversy is whether or to which extent we (PGI) can regulate EPR internals. If we agree that EPR is truly opaque, we can not make any statement on how large is it, whether it is human-readable or no, whether it contains Job or Activity IDs, GUIDs - anything of this kind. If we start standardizing EPR, "it" may not be called EPR any more. Cheers, Oxana Morris Riedel пишет: > Hi team, > > gLite, GENESIS and UNICORE agree on using EPRs and for today we agreed > that members of ARC (i.e. Balazs, Aleksander) fill in some drawbacks of EPRs > in the WIKI. > > Currently I don't see any point against EPRs in the wiki: > http://forge.gridforum.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.pgi-wg/wiki/Executio > nServicePoints > > Please do so before the Telcon - otherwise we can say YES to EPRs because > the majority votes for it, has experience with it, and we have no counter > statements. > > We need to make progress - so an agreement on EPRs here is a good step > forward and would be a good outcome of the call today. > > Take care, > Morris > > > >> -- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> -- Von: gin-bounces(a)ogf.org [mailto:gin-bounces@ogf.org] Im Auftrag von > Morris >> -- Riedel >> -- Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. März 2010 13:03 >> -- An: Pgi-wg(a)ogf.org >> -- Cc: gin(a)ogf.org >> -- Betreff: [gin] Reminder & Agenda: PGI Telcon Today 2010-03-11; 3:30 pm > CET >> -- >> -- Hi folks, >> -- >> -- today will be a PGI telcon as planned. >> -- >> -- (1) >> -- Numbers: >> -- >> -- we are using: >> -- via Skype call +9900827049931906 (free of charge), ordinary phone > numbers >> -- (local rates) with the 9931906 conference number: >> -- >> -- Austria 0820 401 15470 >> -- Belgium 0703 57 134 >> -- France 0826 109 071 >> -- Germany +49 (0) 180 500 9527 >> -- Switzerland 0848 560 397 >> -- >> -- >> -- >> -- (2) >> -- Screen-Sharing: >> -- >> -- http://webconf.vc.dfn.de/ogf-pgi-wg/ >> -- >> -- No login is required. Just enter as 'guest' with your real world name. >> -- >> -- >> -- >> -- (3) >> -- Proposed agenda: >> -- >> -- (a) >> -- Review Minutes last week >> -- >> -- (b) >> -- Review action items >> -- >> -- (c) >> -- Continue EPR discussions and agree on addressing approach >> -- >> -- (d) >> -- AOB >> -- >> -- >> -- High participation is appreciated >> -- >> -- >> -- Your co-chair, >> -- Morris >> -- >> -- ------------------------------------------------------------ >> -- Morris Riedel >> -- Distributed Systems and Grid Computing Division >> -- >> -- Jülich Supercomputing Centre (JSC) >> -- Info: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/JSCPeople/riedel >> -- >> -- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Pgi-wg mailing list > Pgi-wg(a)ogf.org > http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/pgi-wg

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Re: [Pgi-wg] [gin] Reminder & Agenda: PGI Telcon Today 2010-03-11; 3:30 pm CET
by Morris Riedel 11 Mar '10

11 Mar '10

Hi team, gLite, GENESIS and UNICORE agree on using EPRs and for today we agreed that members of ARC (i.e. Balazs, Aleksander) fill in some drawbacks of EPRs in the WIKI. Currently I don't see any point against EPRs in the wiki: http://forge.gridforum.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.pgi-wg/wiki/Executio nServicePoints Please do so before the Telcon - otherwise we can say YES to EPRs because the majority votes for it, has experience with it, and we have no counter statements. We need to make progress - so an agreement on EPRs here is a good step forward and would be a good outcome of the call today. Take care, Morris >-- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >-- Von: gin-bounces(a)ogf.org [mailto:gin-bounces@ogf.org] Im Auftrag von Morris >-- Riedel >-- Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. März 2010 13:03 >-- An: Pgi-wg(a)ogf.org >-- Cc: gin(a)ogf.org >-- Betreff: [gin] Reminder & Agenda: PGI Telcon Today 2010-03-11; 3:30 pm CET >-- >-- Hi folks, >-- >-- today will be a PGI telcon as planned. >-- >-- (1) >-- Numbers: >-- >-- we are using: >-- via Skype call +9900827049931906 (free of charge), ordinary phone numbers >-- (local rates) with the 9931906 conference number: >-- >-- Austria 0820 401 15470 >-- Belgium 0703 57 134 >-- France 0826 109 071 >-- Germany +49 (0) 180 500 9527 >-- Switzerland 0848 560 397 >-- >-- >-- >-- (2) >-- Screen-Sharing: >-- >-- http://webconf.vc.dfn.de/ogf-pgi-wg/ >-- >-- No login is required. Just enter as 'guest' with your real world name. >-- >-- >-- >-- (3) >-- Proposed agenda: >-- >-- (a) >-- Review Minutes last week >-- >-- (b) >-- Review action items >-- >-- (c) >-- Continue EPR discussions and agree on addressing approach >-- >-- (d) >-- AOB >-- >-- >-- High participation is appreciated >-- >-- >-- Your co-chair, >-- Morris >-- >-- ------------------------------------------------------------ >-- Morris Riedel >-- Distributed Systems and Grid Computing Division >-- >-- Jülich Supercomputing Centre (JSC) >-- Info: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/JSCPeople/riedel >-- >--

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Reminder & Agenda: PGI Telcon Today 2010-03-11; 3:30 pm CET
by Morris Riedel 11 Mar '10

11 Mar '10

Hi folks, today will be a PGI telcon as planned. (1) Numbers: we are using: via Skype call +9900827049931906 (free of charge), ordinary phone numbers (local rates) with the 9931906 conference number: Austria 0820 401 15470 Belgium 0703 57 134 France 0826 109 071 Germany +49 (0) 180 500 9527 Switzerland 0848 560 397 (2) Screen-Sharing: http://webconf.vc.dfn.de/ogf-pgi-wg/ No login is required. Just enter as 'guest' with your real world name. (3) Proposed agenda: (a) Review Minutes last week (b) Review action items (c) Continue EPR discussions and agree on addressing approach (d) AOB High participation is appreciated Your co-chair, Morris ------------------------------------------------------------ Morris Riedel Distributed Systems and Grid Computing Division Jülich Supercomputing Centre (JSC) Info: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/JSCPeople/riedel

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OGF PGI open issue Q3 : Activity ID: any special requirement
by Etienne URBAH 09 Mar '10

09 Mar '10

Balazs, Morris, Luigi, Johannes and all, Concerning OGF PGI open issue Q3 : Activity ID: any special requirement : Thanks to all for their participation to the telephone conference on Monday 08 March 2010. I now understand the issues much better, and I write down below some clear statements which should be quite easy to accept and reject : A) PGI Terminology ------------------ Job = Activity, therefore Job ID = Activity ID Client = Job Submitter Job migration = Job delegation B) Local and Global Uniqueness ------------------------------ - As agreed before, IDs generated by a client can NOT be trusted to be unique at all. - IDs generated by a server are trusted : - to be unique for this server, - but NOT to be globally unique (among all servers) - If we really want an ID to be globally unique, we need something like a GUID. C) Human traceability of Jobs ----------------------------- In case of problems, the Job ID MUST be suitable for manual transfer by a human. Therefore, the Job ID MUST : - contain only 7-bits non-blank printable characters (such as MIME64 or GUID), or 7-bits XML with non-meaningful blanks and newlines. - NOT be too long. I suggest to specify a maximum length of 1000 chars. D) EPRs are suitable for Services, NOT for Jobs ------------------------------------------------ As far as I know, an EPR is an URL of a Service to which a Client MAY submit requests. Therefore, anything pointed by an EPR is a Service instance which MUST be able to receive requests from Clients. A Job is NOT a Service, but an Activity managed by an Execution Service. Therefore, the Job itself does NOT receive requests from Clients, and the Job ID MUST NOT be an EndPoint. In particular, PGI can decide that a Job ID MAY have an XML syntax, or PGI can decide that a Job ID MUST have an XML syntax, but in any case, the Job ID MUST NOT begin with <wsa:EndpointReference>. E) Execution Service responsible for the management of a particular Job ----------------------------------------------------------------------- As soon as a Job is created, there is an Execution Service responsible for the management of this Job. This responsible Execution Service MAY delegate the execution of the Job to a second Execution Service (and so on ...). The responsible Execution Service MAY return to the Client some information about the second Execution Service, and the Client MAY be able to use this information. But the Client MAY also be unable to use this information. Therefore, the responsible Execution Service MUST stay wholly responsible for the Job during the Job lifetime. F) Endpoint(s) of Execution Service(s) -------------------------------------- At the beginning, a Client has picked a (hopefully) suitable EndPoint of an Execution Service from a GLUE-based Information Service, and has submitted a vector of Job descriptions to this EndPoint. E.A) If the Execution Service receiving a vector of Job descriptions is designed so that the Client has to submit ALL subsequent requests to the ORIGINAL Endpoint, then : - The Client does NOT need to extract any Endpoint from the Job ID, and - The Job ID can be completely opaque (such as GUID). E.B) If the Execution Service receiving a vector of Job descriptions is NOT designed so that the Client has to submit ALL subsequent requests to the ORIGINAL Endpoint, then : - Each Job ID must be built so that the Client easily extracts the EndPoint of the Execution Service responsible for the Job, - This EndPoint must stay the SAME for the whole Job lifetime, as explained in chapter E above. - PGI has to specify a limited number of Job ID syntaxes, which MUST be understood by ALL Clients. For example : - URL + '?' + GUID - <pgi:jobid> <wsa:Address>xs:anyURI - PGI SERVICE URL + '?' + GUID </wsa:Address> <wsa:ReferenceParameters>xs:any* - GUID </wsa:ReferenceParameters> ? </pgi:jobid> F) Instances and Shares ------------------------ A Client MUST NOT have to bother with Instances and Shares of an Execution Service. The Execution Service MUST store any information about Instances, Shares, ... inside the Job ID in such a way that : A Client willing to issue a request for the Job just has to send the Request containing the whole Job ID to the URL of the responsible Execution Service as explained in chapter E above. I will also write that inside the WIKI at http://forge.gridforum.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.pgi-wg/wiki/Executi… To be carefully criticized. Best regards. ----------------------------------------------------- Etienne URBAH LAL, Univ Paris-Sud, IN2P3/CNRS Bat 200 91898 ORSAY France Tel: +33 1 64 46 84 87 Skype: etienne.urbah Mob: +33 6 22 30 53 27 mailto:urbah@lal.in2p3.fr -----------------------------------------------------

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