Re: [ogsa-wg] OGSA-EMS Meeting Agenda (2005-01-17)
Ravi: You've asked to pointers to relevant standards, but to first order there aren't any. That does make me wonder whether it is even possible to have a meaningful conversation about an EMS interoperability profile at this time, given that a profile is supposed to document an established use of established standards. I believe that the interfaces developed by the Globus team for GT4 GRAM are relevant to an EMS discussion, in that they represent the result of an intensive effort to develop WSRF-based job management interfaces. Documentation is at: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/wsgram/ The concepts are described here: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/key/WS_G... And some of the interfaces here: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/wsgram/W... Regards, Ian. At 11:14 PM 1/14/2005 -0800, Subramaniam, Ravi wrote:
Hi,
Here is the agenda for this Mondays teleconference. As agreed at the last F2F we will be focusing on developing an EMS interoperability profile. We will use the Draft Profile template (Tom, Dave) as a reference (attached for you convenience). We encourage persons who are active in relevant GGF and other standard organization WG and people who are very familiar with relevant standards to attend these meetings to provide the right and informed perspectives and inputs.
If you would be willing to educate the rest of the participants on one or more applicable standards that you are very familiar with please let me know and I can schedule some time. These would be brief overviews that would lead to more detailed discussions in future as we narrow on the appropriate set.
Please send me pointers to definitive documentation on any standards that you feel should be part of the EMS profile. I will compile these as references for those who need to delve deeper.
Dial-In
Date: January 17th, 2005 (Monday)
Time: 5 7 PM (CST)
The dial-in number for Monday
Free: +1-866-639-4741
Toll: +1-574-935-6703
PIN: 8980700
Screen share service will be provided.
URL: <http://ogsa.glance.net/>http://ogsa.glance.net
Session key: 0117
See more explanation:
Agenda:
* Roll Call (5 mins) * Agenda Bashing (10 mins) * Ratification of previous minutes (5 mins) * EMS profile discussion (tentative) (90 mins) * Catalog applicable standards * Review known standards wrt to the architecture * Identify initial set * Opens and wrap up. (10 mins)
Thanks!
Ravi
_______________________________________________________________ Ian Foster www.mcs.anl.gov/~foster Math & Computer Science Div. Dept of Computer Science Argonne National Laboratory The University of Chicago Argonne, IL 60439, U.S.A. Chicago, IL 60637, U.S.A. Tel: 630 252 4619 Fax: 630 252 1997 Globus Alliance, www.globus.org
Hi Ian, Ravi, I think Basic EM profile provide very simple job submission functionality based on the evolving specifications (plus OGSA basic profile). The evolving specifications, IMHO, are the WS-agreement and the JSDL spec. The WS-agreement defines protocol and XML envelope and the JSDL spec defines actual terms/attributes of document. The WS-Agreement is developed by GRAAP-WG and is now under public comment review. https://forge.gridforum.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=461 JSDL spec is now under developing by JSDL-WG and will be submit to GGF editor (at latest) before GGF13. https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/jsdl-wg/document/draft-ggf-jsdl-spec/en /11 Also WSDL style API for Job manager is nice to have. But IFAIK the API discussion is at the very early stage. Hope it helps, ---- Hiro Kishimoto -----Original Message----- From: Ian Foster [mailto:foster@mcs.anl.gov] Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 11:50 PM To: Subramaniam, Ravi; ali@epcc.ed.ac.uk; andreas.haas@sun.com; andreas.savva@jp.fujitsu.com; asm100@doc.ic.ac.uk; csmith@platform.com; D.Snelling@fle.Fujitsu.com; darrenp@cadence.com; dejan@hpl.hp.com; flon@isi.edu; grimshaw@cs.virginia.edu; hiro.kishimoto@jp.fujitsu.com; hornwp@us.ibm.com; jian@xcerla.com; jon.maclaren@man.ac.uk; naber@man.poznan.pl; nitzberg@pbspro.com; OGSA-WG; pruyne@hpl.hp.com; Rajic, Hrabri; ramin.yahyapour@udo.edu; Scott.Jackson@pnl.gov; sjn5@doc.ic.ac.uk; Subramaniam, Ravi; tkojo@mvi.biglobe.ne.jp; troney@ncsa.uiuc.edu; Uwe.Schwiegelshohn@udo.edu; v.sander@fz-juelich.de; Wolfgang.Ziegler@scai.fraunhofer.de Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] OGSA-EMS Meeting Agenda (2005-01-17) Ravi: You've asked to pointers to relevant standards, but to first order there aren't any. That does make me wonder whether it is even possible to have a meaningful conversation about an EMS interoperability profile at this time, given that a profile is supposed to document an established use of established standards. I believe that the interfaces developed by the Globus team for GT4 GRAM are relevant to an EMS discussion, in that they represent the result of an intensive effort to develop WSRF-based job management interfaces. Documentation is at: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/wsgram/ The concepts are described here: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/key/WS_G... Approach.html And some of the interfaces here: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/wsgram/W... AM_Public_Interfaces.html Regards, Ian. At 11:14 PM 1/14/2005 -0800, Subramaniam, Ravi wrote: Hi, Here is the agenda for this Mondays teleconference. As agreed at the last F2F we will be focusing on developing an EMS interoperability profile. We will use the Draft Profile template (Tom, Dave) as a reference (attached for you convenience). We encourage persons who are active in relevant GGF and other standard organization WG and people who are very familiar with relevant standards to attend these meetings to provide the right and informed perspectives and inputs. If you would be willing to educate the rest of the participants on one or more applicable standards that you are very familiar with please let me know and I can schedule some time. These would be brief overviews that would lead to more detailed discussions in future as we narrow on the appropriate set. Please send me pointers to definitive documentation on any standards that you feel should be part of the EMS profile. I will compile these as references for those who need to delve deeper. Dial-In Date: January 17th, 2005 (Monday) Time: 5 7 PM (CST) The dial-in number for Monday Free: +1-866-639-4741 Toll: +1-574-935-6703 PIN: 8980700 Screen share service will be provided. URL: http://ogsa.glance.net Session key: 0117 See more explanation: http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2004/06/msg00077.html Agenda: 1. Roll Call (5 mins) 2. Agenda Bashing (10 mins) 3. Ratification of previous minutes (5 mins) 4. EMS profile discussion (tentative) (90 mins) 1. Catalog applicable standards 2. Review known standards wrt to the architecture 3. Identify initial set 5. Opens and wrap up. (10 mins) Thanks! Ravi _______________________________________________________________ Ian Foster www.mcs.anl.gov/~foster Math & Computer Science Div. Dept of Computer Science Argonne National Laboratory The University of Chicago Argonne, IL 60439, U.S.A. Chicago, IL 60637, U.S.A. Tel: 630 252 4619 Fax: 630 252 1997 Globus Alliance, www.globus.org
Folks, I'm with Hiro here. The first Basic EMS Candidate Profile should be very minimal. I would say 1) JSDL - Yes. 2) A New Job Submit WSDL spec - Yes 3) A Job Management WSDL spec - would be nice, but to do it right we need WSDM first. 4) WS-Agreement as an optional add on - I'm still not certain here. Remember this first EMS Candidate Profile must be an Informational document since (2 & 3) above don't even exist and (1 & 4) are not yet stable. On 16 Jan 2005, at 6:46, Hiro Kishimoto wrote:
Hi Ian, Ravi,
I think Basic EM profile provide very simple job submission functionality based on the evolving specifications (plus OGSA basic profile).
The evolving specifications, IMHO, are the WS-agreement and the JSDL spec. The WS-agreement defines protocol and XML envelope and the JSDL spec defines actual terms/attributes of document.
The WS-Agreement is developed by GRAAP-WG and is now under public comment review.
https://forge.gridforum.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=461
JSDL spec is now under developing by JSDL-WG and will be submit to GGF editor (at latest) before GGF13.
https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/jsdl-wg/document/draft-ggf-jsdl- spec/en /11
Also WSDL style API for Job manager is nice to have. But IFAIK the API discussion is at the very early stage.
Hope it helps, ---- Hiro Kishimoto
-----Original Message----- From: Ian Foster [mailto:foster@mcs.anl.gov] Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 11:50 PM To: Subramaniam, Ravi; ali@epcc.ed.ac.uk; andreas.haas@sun.com; andreas.savva@jp.fujitsu.com; asm100@doc.ic.ac.uk; csmith@platform.com; D.Snelling@fle.Fujitsu.com; darrenp@cadence.com; dejan@hpl.hp.com; flon@isi.edu; grimshaw@cs.virginia.edu; hiro.kishimoto@jp.fujitsu.com; hornwp@us.ibm.com; jian@xcerla.com; jon.maclaren@man.ac.uk; naber@man.poznan.pl; nitzberg@pbspro.com; OGSA-WG; pruyne@hpl.hp.com; Rajic, Hrabri; ramin.yahyapour@udo.edu; Scott.Jackson@pnl.gov; sjn5@doc.ic.ac.uk; Subramaniam, Ravi; tkojo@mvi.biglobe.ne.jp; troney@ncsa.uiuc.edu; Uwe.Schwiegelshohn@udo.edu; v.sander@fz-juelich.de; Wolfgang.Ziegler@scai.fraunhofer.de Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] OGSA-EMS Meeting Agenda (2005-01-17)
Ravi:
You've asked to pointers to relevant standards, but to first order there aren't any. That does make me wonder whether it is even possible to have a meaningful conversation about an EMS interoperability profile at this time, given that a profile is supposed to document an established use of established standards.
I believe that the interfaces developed by the Globus team for GT4 GRAM are relevant to an EMS discussion, in that they represent the result of an intensive effort to develop WSRF-based job management interfaces.
Documentation is at: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/ wsgram/
The concepts are described here: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/ key/WS_GRAM_ Approach.html
And some of the interfaces here: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/ wsgram/WS_GR AM_Public_Interfaces.html
Regards,
Ian.
At 11:14 PM 1/14/2005 -0800, Subramaniam, Ravi wrote:
Hi,
Here is the agenda for this Mondays teleconference. As agreed at the last F2F we will be focusing on developing an EMS interoperability profile. We will use the Draft Profile template (Tom, Dave) as a reference (attached for you convenience). We encourage persons who are active in relevant GGF and other standard organization WG and people who are very familiar with relevant standards to attend these meetings to provide the right and informed perspectives and inputs.
If you would be willing to educate the rest of the participants on one or more applicable standards that you are very familiar with please let me know and I can schedule some time. These would be brief overviews that would lead to more detailed discussions in future as we narrow on the appropriate set.
Please send me pointers to definitive documentation on any standards that you feel should be part of the EMS profile. I will compile these as references for those who need to delve deeper.
Dial-In
Date: January 17th, 2005 (Monday)
Time: 5 7 PM (CST)
The dial-in number for Monday
Free: +1-866-639-4741
Toll: +1-574-935-6703
PIN: 8980700
Screen share service will be provided.
Session key: 0117
See more explanation:
http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2004/06/ msg00077.html
Agenda:
1. Roll Call (5 mins) 2. Agenda Bashing (10 mins) 3. Ratification of previous minutes (5 mins) 4. EMS profile discussion (tentative) (90 mins) 1. Catalog applicable standards 2. Review known standards wrt to the architecture 3. Identify initial set 5. Opens and wrap up. (10 mins)
Thanks!
Ravi _______________________________________________________________ Ian Foster www.mcs.anl.gov/~foster Math & Computer Science Div. Dept of Computer Science Argonne National Laboratory The University of Chicago Argonne, IL 60439, U.S.A. Chicago, IL 60637, U.S.A. Tel: 630 252 4619 Fax: 630 252 1997 Globus Alliance, www.globus.org
-- Take care: Dr. David Snelling < David . Snelling . UK . Fujitsu . com > Fujitsu Laboratories of Europe Hayes Park Central Hayes End Road Hayes, Middlesex UB4 8FE +44-208-606-4649 (Office) +44-208-606-4539 (Fax) +44-7768-807526 (Mobile)
Hi Folks, (Apologies if you are receiving this twice)
I'm with Hiro here. The first Basic EMS Candidate Profile should be very minimal. I would say
1) JSDL - Yes. 2) A New Job Submit WSDL spec - Yes
Random and clueless suggestion: WSDL rendering of DRMAA???
3) A Job Management WSDL spec - would be nice, but to do it right we need WSDM first.
How about JSDL? Works without WSDM (but yes, should work better with WSDM). See ya (in the teleconference) Fred Maciel
On 17/1/05 10:57, "Fred Maciel" <fred-m@crl.hitachi.co.jp> wrote:
3) A Job Management WSDL spec - would be nice, but to do it right we need WSDM first.
How about JSDL? Works without WSDM (but yes, should work better with WSDM).
JSDL is not intended to be a document format to encapsulate job state. It is very clearly focused on the definition side of things. Other document formats and manageability interfaces will be required for job management. Basing this on WSDM seems to be the "right thing" to do. -- Chris
Hi again,
How about JSDL? Works without WSDM (but yes, should work better with WSDM).
JSDL is not intended to be a document format to encapsulate job state. It is
Oops. I meant JSIM, not JSDL. Again, JSIM works without WSDM (but yes, should work better with WSDM). See ya, Fred Maciel.
Another item to note wrt the Job Management work is that CIM defines a job abstraction that was enhanced by JSIM. This work could be analyzed independent of the transport and encoding which is WSDM. Andrea
-----Original Message----- From: owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org [mailto:owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org] On Behalf Of David Snelling Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:10 PM To: Hiro Kishimoto Cc: 'Ian Foster'; 'Subramaniam, Ravi'; ali@epcc.ed.ac.uk; andreas.haas@sun.com; andreas.savva@jp.fujitsu.com; asm100@doc.ic.ac.uk; csmith@platform.com; D.Snelling@fle.Fujitsu.com; darrenp@cadence.com; dejan@hpl.hp.com; flon@isi.edu; grimshaw@cs.virginia.edu; hornwp@us.ibm.com; jian@xcerla.com; jon.maclaren@man.ac.uk; naber@man.poznan.pl; nitzberg@pbspro.com; 'OGSA-WG'; pruyne@hpl.hp.com; 'Rajic, Hrabri'; ramin.yahyapour@udo.edu; Scott.Jackson@pnl.gov; sjn5@doc.ic.ac.uk; tkojo@mvi.biglobe.ne.jp; troney@ncsa.uiuc.edu; Uwe.Schwiegelshohn@udo.edu; v.sander@fz-juelich.de; Wolfgang.Ziegler@scai.fraunhofer.de Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] OGSA-EMS Meeting Agenda (2005-01-17)
Folks,
I'm with Hiro here. The first Basic EMS Candidate Profile should be very minimal. I would say
1) JSDL - Yes. 2) A New Job Submit WSDL spec - Yes 3) A Job Management WSDL spec - would be nice, but to do it right we need WSDM first. 4) WS-Agreement as an optional add on - I'm still not certain here.
Remember this first EMS Candidate Profile must be an Informational document since (2 & 3) above don't even exist and (1 & 4) are not yet stable.
On 16 Jan 2005, at 6:46, Hiro Kishimoto wrote:
Hi Ian, Ravi,
I think Basic EM profile provide very simple job submission functionality based on the evolving specifications (plus OGSA basic profile).
The evolving specifications, IMHO, are the WS-agreement and the JSDL spec. The WS-agreement defines protocol and XML envelope and the JSDL spec defines actual terms/attributes of document.
The WS-Agreement is developed by GRAAP-WG and is now under public comment review.
https://forge.gridforum.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=461
JSDL spec is now under developing by JSDL-WG and will be submit to GGF editor (at latest) before GGF13.
spec/en /11
Also WSDL style API for Job manager is nice to have. But IFAIK the API discussion is at the very early stage.
Hope it helps, ---- Hiro Kishimoto
-----Original Message----- From: Ian Foster [mailto:foster@mcs.anl.gov] Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 11:50 PM To: Subramaniam, Ravi; ali@epcc.ed.ac.uk; andreas.haas@sun.com; andreas.savva@jp.fujitsu.com; asm100@doc.ic.ac.uk; csmith@platform.com; D.Snelling@fle.Fujitsu.com; darrenp@cadence.com; dejan@hpl.hp.com; flon@isi.edu; grimshaw@cs.virginia.edu; hiro.kishimoto@jp.fujitsu.com; hornwp@us.ibm.com; jian@xcerla.com; jon.maclaren@man.ac.uk; naber@man.poznan.pl; nitzberg@pbspro.com; OGSA-WG; pruyne@hpl.hp.com; Rajic, Hrabri; ramin.yahyapour@udo.edu; Scott.Jackson@pnl.gov; sjn5@doc.ic.ac.uk; Subramaniam, Ravi; tkojo@mvi.biglobe.ne.jp; troney@ncsa.uiuc.edu; Uwe.Schwiegelshohn@udo.edu; v.sander@fz-juelich.de; Wolfgang.Ziegler@scai.fraunhofer.de Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] OGSA-EMS Meeting Agenda (2005-01-17)
Ravi:
You've asked to pointers to relevant standards, but to first order there aren't any. That does make me wonder whether it is even possible to have a meaningful conversation about an EMS interoperability profile at this time, given that a profile is supposed to document an established use of established standards.
I believe that the interfaces developed by the Globus team for GT4 GRAM are relevant to an EMS discussion, in that they represent the result of an intensive effort to develop WSRF-based job management interfaces.
Documentation is at: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/ wsgram/
The concepts are described here: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/ key/WS_GRAM_ Approach.html
And some of the interfaces here: http://www-unix.globus.org/toolkit/docs/development/3.9.4/execution/ wsgram/WS_GR AM_Public_Interfaces.html
Regards,
Ian.
At 11:14 PM 1/14/2005 -0800, Subramaniam, Ravi wrote:
Hi,
Here is the agenda for this Mondays teleconference. As agreed at the last F2F we will be focusing on developing an EMS interoperability profile. We will use the Draft Profile template (Tom, Dave) as a reference (attached for you convenience). We encourage
active in relevant GGF and other standard organization WG and people who are very familiar with relevant standards to attend
to provide the right and informed perspectives and inputs.
If you would be willing to educate the rest of the
or more applicable standards that you are very familiar with please let me know and I can schedule some time. These would be brief overviews that would lead to more detailed discussions in future as we narrow on the appropriate set.
Please send me pointers to definitive documentation on any standards that you feel should be part of the EMS profile. I will compile these as references for those who need to delve deeper.
Dial-In
Date: January 17th, 2005 (Monday)
Time: 5 7 PM (CST)
The dial-in number for Monday
Free: +1-866-639-4741
Toll: +1-574-935-6703
PIN: 8980700
Screen share service will be provided.
Session key: 0117
See more explanation:
http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2004/06/ msg00077.html
Agenda:
1. Roll Call (5 mins) 2. Agenda Bashing (10 mins) 3. Ratification of previous minutes (5 mins) 4. EMS profile discussion (tentative) (90 mins) 1. Catalog applicable standards 2. Review known standards wrt to the architecture 3. Identify initial set
https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/jsdl-wg/document/draft-ggf-jsdl- persons who are these meetings participants on one 5. Opens and
wrap up. (10 mins)
Thanks!
Ravi _______________________________________________________________ Ian Foster www.mcs.anl.gov/~foster Math & Computer Science Div. Dept of Computer Science Argonne National Laboratory The University of Chicago Argonne, IL 60439, U.S.A. Chicago, IL 60637, U.S.A. Tel: 630 252 4619 Fax: 630 252 1997 Globus Alliance, www.globus.org
--
Take care:
Dr. David Snelling < David . Snelling . UK . Fujitsu . com > Fujitsu Laboratories of Europe Hayes Park Central Hayes End Road Hayes, Middlesex UB4 8FE
+44-208-606-4649 (Office) +44-208-606-4539 (Fax) +44-7768-807526 (Mobile)
participants (6)
-
Andrea Westerinen -
Christopher Smith -
David Snelling -
Fred Maciel -
Hiro Kishimoto -
Ian Foster