I agree that defining the perfect layer of abstraction would be a good thing to do. But we have tried before and never got very far in agreeing on what that layer should be in a reasonable time. In order to make quick progress as expected from us, we would be better off discussing what it takes to compose WSRF services with non-WSRF (may be WS-Transfer?) services. some layers of integration (intermediaries, handlers,...) might be needed, but this is a small price to pay, compared to the alternatives of starting again or having a divided community. OGSA being a service oriented architecture will provide a choice of services. Market forces will ensure that the better services survive and the bad ones will be unused for a long time before they die peacefully. This way people can go their preferred way BUT AT THEIR OWN RISK but both approaches will be part of OGSA. Abdeslem. ///////// -----Original Message----- From: owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org [mailto:owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org]On Behalf Of Hiro Kishimoto Sent: 03 March 2005 08:19 To: 'OGSA-WG' Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] RE: GRIDtoday Edition: Tony Hey: 'Challenging Times for GGF & Standards' Steven's email bounced. Steven, OGSA-WG is open to any plumbing proposal as our infrastructure service. However, we are under pressure from Grid community at large to publish concrete OGSA basic profile by GGF14. (And please use your registered email address.) Thanks, ---- Hiro Kishimoto Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 23:24:14 +0000 From: Steven Newhouse <s.newhouse@omii.ac.uk> To: Frank Siebenlist <franks@mcs.anl.gov> Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] RE: GRIDtoday Edition: Tony Hey: 'Challenging Times for GGF & Standards'

The idea of inventing "yet an other abstraction layer" doesn't sound very productive.

Neither does the idea of re-writing my application code interface when WS-RF 2.0 comes out, or something else gets adopted by another community, or... Just imagine where the parallel computing world would still be if we where still exposed to machine specific networking stacks instead of MPI? Layers of abstraction are (within reason) good. Also you are seeing caution in the UK. Remember OGSI...? The UK put in considerable effort to adopt the 'betamax' of grid web service. Are we now being offered VHS grid web services? Or will there be another Betamax type revision? I'm finding some of the comments in this thread (not Frank's) are bit worrying. Should dissenters really be given a 'good talking to' until they come round to the WS-RF point of view? Wow... roll on GGF! Steven -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Steven Newhouse Tel:+44 (0)2380 598789 Deputy Director, Open Middleware Infrastructure Institute (OMII) Suite 6005, Faraday Building (B21), Highfield Campus, Southampton University, Highfield, Southampton, SO17 1BJ, UK