Hi, For the record, Paul's recommendation below is fine with me -- and I am also happy with the current (revised) definition of "Enterprise". I definitely agree with Paul that we should not need to define such a broad and common term, unless we were using it in some particularly distinct way. Cheers, BobN -----Original Message----- From: ogsa-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Strong, Paul Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 4:58 PM To: ogsa-wg WG Subject: [ogsa-wg] Apologies For Absence All, Am tied up this PM. My one comment on the glossary front would be to urge us not to try and define the term Enterprise. It is both too commonly used and too broad to be worth the effort. We'll be forever having the "this is what *we* mean by Enterprise" discussion if we diverge from the common understanding. Let's stick to defining compound terms like Enterprise Grid and maybe Enterprise Computing which we can to some degree make our own. Just my shiny tuppence... :o) Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: ogsa-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Treadwell, Jem Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 1:33 PM To: ogsa-wg WG Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] Glossary terms: enterprise,enterprise computing and e-Science Hi, thanks for all the comments. As there were a couple of separate threads I've combined them into a single summary below. I've uploaded a new version of the discussion document to http://tinyurl.com/ygd6mm. This is for (brief) discussion on today's call, and I'll send out an update tomorrow for those interested. Thanks, - Jem ====== Donal Fellows =========
From: Donal K. Fellows Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:16 AM To: 'ogsa-wg WG' Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] Glossary terms: enterprise, enterprise computing and e-Science
Toshiyuki Nakata wrote:
How about numerically intensive applications used in the enterprises such as Cirucuit simulation, financial calculations such as Risk analysis?
Also, heavy-duty floating-point simulation codes (of the general sort often associated with e-Science) are very useful for many fields of engineering. They also have extensive requirements for things like visualization and steering.
Looks to me like almost anything can be called "Enterprise Grid Computing" and so the term isn't helping us understand what is going on from a Grid perspective. Glossaries definitely should not be muddying the waters, whatever else they do.
The way I've seen the term "Enterprise Grid Computing" actually used in presentations though is much more restrictive: "Managed Datacenter Grid Computing" would probably be an accurate characterization. Were we to use that term, it would leave the EGC term free to mean "all grid computing that is supporting an enterprise", of which MDGC is an important sub-category. In doing that, it would make it far easier to reach out to other kinds of enterprises where the major grid challenges are not in datacenter management; one of the things I hear from talking to people who consider themselves to be working on a "Mobile Grid" is that "GGF/OGSA only deals with HPC and datacenters" which I know to be not true - those are merely areas that have been focussed on initially.
Donal (I know it's OGF now, but they don't.) --
====== Toshi Nakata ============= Hi:
In EGR-RG, we decided that it would become very difficult to
Sorry 'decided' is too strong a word. When the RG began it had been too difficult to agree on so the general concensus was to look into see what applications are deployed in Enteprises (Grids). Best Regards Toshi Hello: I have not been active in OGSA but, I do participate in EGR-RG (Enterprise Grid Requirements) RG so my two cents' comments.
· Operation of enterprise applications such as CRM and ERP.
How about numerically intensive applications used in the enterprises such as Cirucuit simulation, financial calculations such as Risk analysis? In EGR-RG, we decided that it would become very difficult to draw a line, so have made no definitions on the bounds of applications themselves Best Regards Toshi ----- Toshiyuki Nakata 中田 登志之 Executive Chief Engineer, Central Research Lab. NEC 1753, Shimonumabe, Nakahara-Ku, Kawasaki,Kanagawa 211-8666,Japan Tel +81-44-431-7653 (NEC Internal 22-60035) Fax +81-44-431-7609 (NEC Internal 22-60509) ============ Hiro Kishimoto ============
-----Original Message----- From: Hiro Kishimoto [mailto:hiro.kishimoto@jp.fujitsu.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:05 PM To: Strong, Paul Cc: Natale, Bob; Treadwell, Jem; ogsa-wg WG Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] Glossary terms: enterprise, enterprise computing and e-Science
Hi Jem, Bob, and Paul,
I understand Bob's concern but Jem's proposal was based on the thoughts to align our glossary with OGF's intention/direction. Given that OGF has three major functions: eScience, Enterprise and Standards (http://www.ogf.org/gf/group_info/areasgroups.php), we would like to define enterprise and eScience somewhat different even thought they have many similarities.
For me, Bob's definition of enterprise seems to be too general and thus covers eScience also.
Just my 2 cents, ---- Hiro Kishimoto
============ Paul Strong ==============
Strong, Paul wrote:
Hi,
I believe that, wherever possible, glossaries should not seek to redefine commonly used terms or make them more specific than their common use. Especially when those terms are single words :o) I would leave ‘enterprise’ more or less as per Bob’s suggestion, or perhaps direct the reader to OED or Webster’s dictionary – one common definition of ‘Enterprise’ being “A business organization”. This is perfectly OK, as are the other definitions. This can remain vague.
What matters are terms such as Enterprise Grid where we own the definition and its use within our document set. The notion that we (the EGA) originally wanted to convey with respect to Enterprise Grids, and indeed Enterprise Computing, is that of a set of services/applications and an infrastructure that is in some sense “owned” by a business entity – an enterprise. One could thus see Enterprise Grids as an evolution/instantiation of Enterprise Computing.
In many ways Enterprise Computing is perhaps not a useful term. The intent was to provide a bucket for all types of IT service (compute intensive, transactional, externally facing, internally facing etc.) within an enterprise, to capture the notion that computing within an enterprise is tied to the objectives of the enterprise and that the services delivered by the enterprise are thus subject to service level objectives that extend beyond the qualitative to the quantitative.
Cheers
Paul
============ Bob Natale ===============
From: ogsa-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Natale, Bob Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 8:36 AM To: Treadwell, Jem Cc: ogsa-wg WG Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] Glossary terms: enterprise,enterprise computing and e-Science
Hi Jem,
Would a broader definition of "Enterprise" be acceptable?
A quick cut at what I have in mind:
"Enterprise:
A set of organizational entities bound by a common hierarchy and whose individual missions support a common purpose."
The main objective I have in mind is to remove the "commercial" focus -- e.g., we often refer to "Enterprise" services and management with respect to the US DoD's Global Information Grid.
Cheers,
BobN
============= Jem Treadwell ==============
From: ogsa-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Treadwell, Jem Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 11:17 AM To: ogsa-wg WG Subject: [ogsa-wg] Glossary terms: enterprise,enterprise computing and e-Science
Hi,
Per Monday's call I've updated the glossary working document with the three definitions we discussed - enterprise, enterprise computing, and e-Science. The working document is at http://tinyurl.com/yb5kp2.
All three definitions are below - note that enterprise is as agreed on the call, I developed the enterprise computing defintion based on the discussion (and please do note the final sentence that begins "Note that..."), and e-Science is abbreviated from the intro in wikipedia. Also note that the terms in italics also have entries in the glossary, and don't need to be spelled out here.
If you have any comments please let me know; otherwise I'll move these to the main draft document before next Monday's call.
Thanks!
- Jem
Enterprise:
An organization whose primary activities are commercial.
Enterprise computing:
Computing to support the operation of an enterprise. Characteristics typically include:
* Concentration of IT resources into one or more large-scale data centers.
* Operation of enterprise applications such as CRM and ERP.
* Emphasis on satisfying customer expectations through the use of SLOs.
* The need to be able to deploy and re-deploy resources rapidly in response to business changes.
* Attention to profitable operation by optimizing resource utilization and by assigning operating costs to business units.
Note that many of these characteristics can also be found in non‑enterprise domains.
e-Science:
Computationally intensive science that is carried out in highly distributed network environments, or science that uses immense data sets that require grid computing.
For more information see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Science.
________________________________
Jem Treadwell Hewlett-Packard Company 6000 Irwin Road Mount Laurel, NJ 08054
Phone:
856-638-6021
Fax:
856-638-6190
E-mail:
Jem.Treadwell@hp.com <mailto:Jem.Treadwell@hp.com>
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