July 2005 - ogsa-wg - lists.ogf.org

RNS critique
by Andrew Grimshaw 26 Jul '05

26 Jul '05

All, Here are some of my comments on the RNS document. I jammed my finger yesterday in basketball, so typing is painful. Therefore, I'm limiting my comments to the most significant. Thank you to the RNS team for all of their work. Andrew High level comments: 1) The basic directory function is to provide a mapping handle f("string"), i.e., to map strings to some form of handle. Thus, in section 1.1. Why do we need four different types of junctions? Should we not have one type of junction: mainly to an EPR. Thus a directory would map a string to an EPR. EPR f("string"); Instead there are four "types" of junctions: EPR's Virtualized reference - either contains an EPR or a URL that points to some other service Referrals - point to another RNS service. Q: could this not be modeled as an EPR? Alias - points to another "entry" within the "same" RNS service. This seems to imply a container like model - more on this later. I suggest that we need only ONE type of junction - an EPR. That will simplify client coding - and the model significantly. 2) Implied model - Repositories There is a notion in the spec of "same service instance" that in conversations has also been called a "repository". The basic idea is that an RNS service may "contain" a set of directories - and that the service has a root. Thus junction types distinguish, for example, between internal and external things that they point to. Thus an RNS service is a rooted tree - that may point at the leaves to other rooted trees. So, first of all - it is implied. If we're going to have that model it should be right up front and discussed. What is a repository? What are it's special port types if any, etc. Second, I think that it is not the right way to think about the problem. Directories should be the resources - not collections of directories. If a particular implementation chooses to multiplex a large number of logically independent directories in a single container - great - we will certainly do that too. The issue is what is the model. I feel fairly strongly about this. Links "into" other RNS servers:1.1.2.4 "Alias Junction" is restricted to pointing to entries in the same repository. I think they should be able to point to anything - including directories in "other" repositories. It has been claimed that using the EPR of the "repository" and a path you can get that effect. However, what if the path changes in the other container? My link would break - even if the directory itself still exists. 3) Full path names In ANY directory system lookup really takes two parameters - a "root" at which to start, and a path. Often the "root" is implied, or is at some well-known location. RNS - as written, implies that all lookups are based on full paths with an implied, unspecified root. Assuming that full paths are to be used on all lookups, the potential for both hot spots AND single point of failure are clear. In conversation with Manual he mentioned that his clients cache intermediate parts of the tree in the sense that "/foo/bar/d1" as a prefix leads to a particular RNS service, and then use that info to not always traverse the tree. Besides the obvious implementation challenges of cache consistency when the tree is changing (a problem we certainly had/have in Legion) there is the modeling issue. If we expect clients to do that - then perhaps the architecture/specification should accommodate that and say that all lookups are relative path lookups with respect to some "root". The root could be a true "root", or interior node in a tree, which is itself a "root" of the subtree it defines. 4) Resolve and file system profile. We discussed these on the last ogsa call, my understanding is that they are going out. 5) Iterators. OGSA-Data-WG has discussed iterators in a more general way, e.g., on data base query results etc., I think that whatever is done in RNS should be consistent with whatever is done in OGSA-Data (note - consistency can happen either way). Medium level comments: S 1.1 "In all cases, junctions are capable of maintaining a list of references (EPRs/URLs) per entry, that is a single junction my render several available EPRs, each of which represent replicas, copies of the same resource, or operationally identical services. " Why? Are you saying that replication issues and semantics should be dealt with in the directory structure? Or are you saying that directories are not "sets" in the sense of only one entry - but rather "multi-sets" in the sense that one string can map to multiple things. If the later - what are the implied semantics. I think it may be safer to keep them as sets.

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[ogsa-wg | Basic Profile - 1578] R0611 should be updated based on PR Base Notification
by Sourceforge Tracker Monitor 25 Jul '05

25 Jul '05

A new artifact has been added: 1578 Submitted by: Tom Maguire Submitted date: 2005-07-25 16:54:55 Respond by visiting: https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1578&group_id… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1578&group_id…) Summary: R0611 should be updated based on PR Base Notification Project: Open Grid Services Architecture Tracker: Basic Profile Artifact ID: 1578 Category: <None> Group: <None> Status: Open Priority: 2 Last Modified By: Tom Maguire Last Modified: 2005-07-25 16:54:55 Submitted By: Tom Maguire Submit Date: 2005-07-25 16:54:55 Assigned To: Tom Maguire File(s): <None> Description: see summary View the Basic Profile : https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=…)

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Teleconference minutes - 20 July 2005
by Andreas Savva 25 Jul '05

25 Jul '05

Minutes attached. - F2F update - Next step discussion - WSRF BP 1.0 review https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-wg/document/minutes-20050720/en/1 -- Andreas Savva Fujitsu Laboratories Ltd OGSA Teleconference - 20 July 2005 ================================== * Participants Mike Behrens (R2AD, LLC) Andrew Grimshaw (UVa) Hiro Kishimoto (Fujitsu) Fred Maciel (Hitachi) Mark Morgan (UVa) Takuya Mori (NEC) Andreas Savva (Fujitsu) Pete Ziu (Northrop Grumman) Apologies: Tom Maguire Minutes: Andreas Savva * Minutes July 18 minutes approved with minor modifications: date is wrong, and should be corrected to July 18. * F2F Update - The Resource Management (RM) design team wants a slot during the F2F; preferably a full day. - They had a call, starting their discussion from the same point as the last OGSA call: the need for a document to make requirements concrete. The F2F seems to be the best time to start working out the contents of this document. - Andrea Westerinen will also be joining the OGSA F2F for this purpose. (She cannot make it before Wednesday, however) - Andrew is also needed for this effort. But he is leaving Thursday afternoon. - Schedule proposal is to use the OGSA session Wednesday afternoon and continue in the OGSA session Thursday morning. - Will look at BES, and EMS resource model (RSS will need something too). - EGA joint-session is also being planned for Wednesday afternoon. - Andrew is therefore double-booked. - Agreed to move the EGA session to Tuesday morning, either in parallel to or after ByteIO if it finishes early. - The EGA members may want to get involved on a specific issue. The RM work seems like a good candidate. In this meeting however it may be better to discuss procedural issues. - And start discussing what that common topic is. Suggest RM as a candidate. (And possibly ask them to join the RM work at a later point when it has more structure.) - Is the OGSA general session on Friday sufficient? Not sure. - Are ByteIO and Naming taking too much time on the schedule? (half-a-day each) - ByteIO: a couple of hours are probably enough (including spec review). No controversy so far. - Naming: there seems to be (tentative) consensus on the main issues. So a couple of hours might be enough. This excludes a discussion of RNS. If RNS is discussed then half-a-day in total may be needed. Action: Andrew to send an email to the EGA members and arrange the meeting for Tuesday morning. Action: Andreas to book an extra room for Tuesday morning - Marvin Theimer cannot join in person. Add to the list of people dialling in. * Next Step discussion Based on Hiro's draft sent out before the call: http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2005/07/msg00064.html - OGSA-WG is already committed to the following activities: - OGSA 1.5 and Glossary 1.5 - OGSA Roadmap 1.0 - OGSA Profile definition (submitted; waiting to enter public comment) - WSRF BP 1.0 (working to complete; schedule has already slipped. Probably cannot publish before November.) - EMS area: - BES has already started and RSS is starting up. - CDDLM and ACS work has to be integrated (see next topic) - Provisioning - Priority is high; will be worked on at the next F2F in the joint session with CDDLM. - Basic EM Profile: revisit after GGF15 - Job Manager Interface: - Perceived overlap with BES as well as work from other groups. - Not high priority; revisit later. - EMS architecture document - As a separate document it may take longer than August. [Need to identify what changes in OGSA 1.5 though.] - Grid Resource model - This is now high priority; agreement is to start working on this soon. - Resource virtualization: This seems more of a by-product of OGSA work. Probably do not need it as a separate topic. - Information services: Abdeslem has indicated he needs help with this topic. Need to follow up with Abdeslem. (Not sure if he can attend the F2F. Hiro to confirm.) - OGSA Authz - They have submitted one document recently; it is probably going to public comment soon. - There is also another draft on using SAML and OGSI. It needs to be revised for WSRF. - They are trying to re-charter. - OGSA-WG would like to be more involved with this group. The target is to have the same level of interaction that OGSA-WG has with BES, RSS, etc. (Especially since this seems to be the only active security group and it carries the OGSA prefix.) - Therefore synchronizing with this group is high priority. The F2F may offer a good opportunity to do so. Maybe invite members of OGSA AuthZ to attend and have a discussion. - Some people are based in the Bay area. - Negotiate a place on the agenda based on their availability. Action: Takuya has contact with this group (OGSA liaison) and will invite them to attend. - Agreed to add Basic Profile 2.0 to the list. - BP 1.0 interop - this is going to be a lot of work. and noone has taken this activity on yet. Volunteers needed. - If it will happen in public at GGF16 it should be done before in a smaller circle. So as to make sure it will not fail. Action: Andrew will ask Marty if he would like to lead this activity on. - Roadmap document update - OGSA-WG has committed to updating this document. So it should be moved to the first section. - It is low priority. - Use case cross-check: low priority. No volunteers. - December F2F: consider La Jolla as a location. - Hiro's schedule proposal: - Andrew has sent out comments on RNS specification. Some time for the RNS review should be allocated in July/August - Roadmap public comment period is until July 29. - There are very few comments. Are those enough? - It is an informational document and so the bar is lower than Recommendation track. - Is there a way to check how many people have downloaded it? - All should try to invite more comments from colleagues. [An updated version of the work items list, based on this review, was sent to the list: http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/ogsa-wg/2005/07/msg00068.html] * WSRF BP 1.0 review There has not been a separate security call or discussion yet. Also Takuya is still reviewing the WS-I Basic Security Profile (WS-I BSP) on the header signing issue. Other related issues are also still unresolved. Review based on draft 29: https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-wg/document/draft-ggf-ogsa-wsrf-b… Did a page by page review until page 14 (l.493). Accepted all changes to that point with the following exceptions: - R0429: Takuya has comments on the Schema Centric Canonicalization specification. A summary follows: - The Schema Centric Canonicalication specification only covers serialization of nodesets. So there is still a need to define the schema for the content of reply messages when the return values that are strings, numbers, booleans. (XPath allows such return values.) - Even if selecting a fragment the whole document would be serialized; this might cause big performance problems with large documents, even if the returned fragment is small. Action: Takuya to send an email with his concerns on the Schema Centric Canonicalization to the list. - E0802: Is this extensibility point listed in WS-I BSP 1.0? - Takuya think it is. Action: Hiro to re-check the WS-I BSP 1.0 - A newer version of the WS-I BSP seems to be in the works. But there is no time to change from using the currently used version. Might be able to do so during public comment. - l.493: 'only' issue is still unresolved. Action: Takuya to propose new text to the list. * Other business - Andrew will miss the next call (Monday) due to other commitments.

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[ogsa-wg | Basic Profile - 1577] R0617 and R0618 are obseleted in the PR version of BaseNotification
by Sourceforge Tracker Monitor 25 Jul '05

25 Jul '05

A new artifact has been added: 1577 Submitted by: Tom Maguire Submitted date: 2005-07-25 16:51:10 Respond by visiting: https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1577&group_id… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1577&group_id…) Summary: R0617 and R0618 are obseleted in the PR version of BaseNotification Project: Open Grid Services Architecture Tracker: Basic Profile Artifact ID: 1577 Category: <None> Group: <None> Status: Open Priority: 2 Last Modified By: Tom Maguire Last Modified: 2005-07-25 16:51:10 Submitted By: Tom Maguire Submit Date: 2005-07-25 16:51:10 Assigned To: Tom Maguire File(s): <None> Description: see summary View the Basic Profile : https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=…)

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OGSA WSRF BP 1.0 v030 uploaded
by Tom Maguire 25 Jul '05

25 Jul '05

Version 030 of BP has been uploaded. Comments have been removed and turned into trackers. BaseNotification section has been updated based on the PR of BaseNotification. I will be on the call at 7:00PM EDT; please move the BP discussion until then. I would like to close fixed trackers on BP durint that section of the call. https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-wg/document/draft-ggf-ogsa-wsrf-b… Tom Frey’s Law: “Every 5 years the number of architecture components double and the ability to comprehend them halves” Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. – Antoine de Saint-Exupery T o m M a g u i r e STSM, On Demand Architecture Poughkeepsie, NY 12601

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[ogsa-wg | Basic Profile - 1576] Appendix E Namespace URIs defined as hyperlinks
by Sourceforge Tracker Monitor 25 Jul '05

25 Jul '05

A new artifact has been added: 1576 Submitted by: Tom Maguire Submitted date: 2005-07-25 16:42:41 Respond by visiting: https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1576&group_id… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1576&group_id…) Summary: Appendix E Namespace URIs defined as hyperlinks Project: Open Grid Services Architecture Tracker: Basic Profile Artifact ID: 1576 Category: <None> Group: <None> Status: Open Priority: 2 Last Modified By: Tom Maguire Last Modified: 2005-07-25 16:42:41 Submitted By: Tom Maguire Submit Date: 2005-07-25 16:42:41 Assigned To: Tom Maguire File(s): <None> Description: Should not be URLs. Should be plain old URI View the Basic Profile : https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=…)

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[ogsa-wg | Basic Profile - 1575] URI reference in Normative References. Is it necessary
by Sourceforge Tracker Monitor 25 Jul '05

25 Jul '05

A new artifact has been added: 1575 Submitted by: Tom Maguire Submitted date: 2005-07-25 16:38:11 Respond by visiting: https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1575&group_id… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1575&group_id…) Summary: URI reference in Normative References. Is it necessary Project: Open Grid Services Architecture Tracker: Basic Profile Artifact ID: 1575 Category: <None> Group: <None> Status: Open Priority: 2 Last Modified By: Tom Maguire Last Modified: 2005-07-25 16:38:11 Submitted By: Tom Maguire Submit Date: 2005-07-25 16:38:11 Assigned To: Tom Maguire File(s): <None> Description: see summary View the Basic Profile : https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=…)

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[ogsa-wg | Basic Profile - 1574] Section 8.2.1 Do we need addtional INSTANCE and MESSAGE constraints
by Sourceforge Tracker Monitor 25 Jul '05

25 Jul '05

A new artifact has been added: 1574 Submitted by: Tom Maguire Submitted date: 2005-07-25 16:35:33 Respond by visiting: https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1574&group_id… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1574&group_id…) Summary: Section 8.2.1 Do we need addtional INSTANCE and MESSAGE constraints Project: Open Grid Services Architecture Tracker: Basic Profile Artifact ID: 1574 Category: <None> Group: <None> Status: Open Priority: 2 Last Modified By: Tom Maguire Last Modified: 2005-07-25 16:35:33 Submitted By: Tom Maguire Submit Date: 2005-07-25 16:35:33 Assigned To: Tom Maguire File(s): <None> Description: see summary View the Basic Profile : https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=…)

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[ogsa-wg | Basic Profile - 1573] section 8.2.1 description needs some work
by Sourceforge Tracker Monitor 25 Jul '05

25 Jul '05

A new artifact has been added: 1573 Submitted by: Tom Maguire Submitted date: 2005-07-25 16:33:04 Respond by visiting: https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1573&group_id… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1573&group_id…) Summary: section 8.2.1 description needs some work Project: Open Grid Services Architecture Tracker: Basic Profile Artifact ID: 1573 Category: <None> Group: <None> Status: Open Priority: 2 Last Modified By: Tom Maguire Last Modified: 2005-07-25 16:33:04 Submitted By: Tom Maguire Submit Date: 2005-07-25 16:33:04 Assigned To: Tom Maguire File(s): <None> Description: Second sentence of description is weak. View the Basic Profile : https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=…)

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[ogsa-wg | Basic Profile - 1572] Section 8.1.3 should must be MUST
by Sourceforge Tracker Monitor 25 Jul '05

25 Jul '05

A new artifact has been added: 1572 Submitted by: Tom Maguire Submitted date: 2005-07-25 16:24:18 Respond by visiting: https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1572&group_id… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=780&aid=1572&group_id…) Summary: Section 8.1.3 should must be MUST Project: Open Grid Services Architecture Tracker: Basic Profile Artifact ID: 1572 Category: <None> Group: <None> Status: Open Priority: 2 Last Modified By: Tom Maguire Last Modified: 2005-07-25 16:24:18 Submitted By: Tom Maguire Submit Date: 2005-07-25 16:24:18 Assigned To: Tom Maguire File(s): <None> Description: Descriptive text is lowercase must. Should it be MUST? View the Basic Profile : https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=… (https://forge.gridforum.org/tracker/index.php?func=browse&group_id=42&atid=…)

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