FW: BOUNCE ogsa-d-wg@ggf.org: Non-member submission from ["Marvin Theimer" <theimer@microsoft.com>]

8 May 2006

      ...
From owner-grdfm-ogsa-d-wg@mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov  Sun May  7 15:52:16
2006
Return-Path: <owner-grdfm-ogsa-d-wg@mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov>
X-Original-To: grdfm-ogsa-d-wg@mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov
Delivered-To: grdfm-ogsa-d-wg@mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
   by mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6556912A04
   for <grdfm-ogsa-d-wg@mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov>; Sun,  7 May 2006
15:52:16 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov ([127.0.0.1])
   by localhost (mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new,
Marvin's mail bounced. 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ogsa-d-wg@ggf.org [mailto:owner-ogsa-d-wg@ggf.org] 
Sent: 07 May 2006 21:52
To: owner-ogsa-d-wg@ggf.org
Subject: BOUNCE ogsa-d-wg@ggf.org: Non-member submission from ["Marvin
Theimer" <theimer@microsoft.com>] 

port 10024)
	with ESMTP id 20217-04 for
<grdfm-ogsa-d-wg@mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov>;
	Sun, 7 May 2006 15:52:15 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mailb.microsoft.com [131.107.1.8])
	by mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7112412A16
	for <ogsa-d-wg@gridforum.org>; Sun,  7 May 2006 15:52:14 -0500
(CDT)
Received: from mailout5.microsoft.com ([157.54.69.148]) by
mail3.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830);
	 Sun, 7 May 2006 13:52:14 -0700
Received: from RED-MSG-42.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.61.167])
by mailout5.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830);
	 Sun, 7 May 2006 13:52:14 -0700
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C67218.107EBCFE"
Subject: RE: [ogsa-wg] Initial draft of HPC profile working group
charter
Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 13:51:47 -0700
Message-ID:
<19A328037921AA42847A717566D1D6A10811465F@RED-MSG-42.redmond.corp.micros
oft.com>
In-Reply-To: <C0829389.4349%david.wallom@ierc.ox.ac.uk>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: [ogsa-wg] Initial draft of HPC profile working group
charter
thread-index: AcZv3YOIV4NrIcq3T8O0WWdBbEA4rAAb2oTQAAI5bCAANgJAeAA6bKQg
From: "Marvin Theimer" <theimer@microsoft.com>
To: "David Wallom" <david.wallom@ierc.ox.ac.uk>,
	"Dave Berry" <daveb@nesc.ac.uk>,
	<ogsa-wg@ggf.org>,
	<dmis-bof@ggf.org>,
	<ogsa-d-wg@gridforum.org>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2006 20:52:14.0014 (UTC)
FILETIME=[1E5275E0:01C67218]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C67218.107EBCFE
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi;

=20

As I've said from the beginning, I view data transfer as being something
that can and should be able to stand separately.  So creating a separate
data profile certainly seems reasonable on first reflection.  However, I
would argue that the HPC profile will need to reference/incorporate that
profile in some manner since and end-to-end vertical profile for HPC is
meaningless without a data component to it.

=20

We should definitely discuss this issue in the BoF.

=20

Marvin.

=20

________________________________

From: David Wallom [mailto:david.wallom@ierc.ox.ac.uk]=20
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 9:55 AM
To: Marvin Theimer; Dave Berry; ogsa-wg@ggf.org; dmis-bof@ggf.org;
ogsa-d-wg@gridforum.org
Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] Initial draft of HPC profile working group
charter

=20

Hi Marvin,
...
From reading most of the correspondence on this topic and from various
conversations about this with various people I was wondering if we could
actually launch a separate Data profile since tacking this onto the end
of the HPC profile could possibly prove limiting. I was wondering if the
data discussion would be a specific part of the BOF?
Regards

David

On 5/5/06 16:15, "Marvin Theimer" <theimer@microsoft.com> wrote:

Hi;
=20
You are right that most of the discussion so far has been about job
submission and not about the related need to get data from client to
execution subsystem(s) and back again.  But since the goal of the group
is to define a profile covering the end-to-end vertical use cases, I
know that we will need to tackle the topic of data staging at some
point.  As with JSDL and BES's relation to the job submission parts of
the work, I'm hoping we will be able to substantially leverage other
existing work, such as that of the data DMIS groups, as appropriate.
I'll make that more explicit in the next revision of the draft charter.
=20
Thanks for pointing this matter out,
Marvin.

________________________________

From: Dave Berry [mailto:daveb@nesc.ac.uk] <mailto:daveb@nesc.ac.uk%5d>

Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 7:14 AM
To: Marvin Theimer; ogsa-wg@ggf.org; dmis-bof@ggf.org;
ogsa-d-wg@gridforum.org
Subject: RE: [ogsa-wg] Initial draft of HPC profile working group
charter

Hi,

All the discussion I've seen about this profile so far has focussed on
specifying and submitting jobs, but the proposed charter says that this
is only one of two areas of interest; the other being data staging.  The
immediate question is what link will this profile work have to the Data
Movement Interface Specification group?  Will the profile refer to the
DMIS spec in the same way that it will refer to JSDL and BES?  (Of
course, JSDL also covers data staging to some extent).

Work is also continuing on the data aspects of the OGSA architecture, in
the OGSA Data WG.  I would encourage the HPC profile group to engage
with the OGSA Data group and the DMIS group concerning how to fit data
staging into the overall architecture.

Unfortunately I won't be in Tokyo next week but it would be useful if
members of these groups could get together there to agree a working
relationship.

Best wishes,

Dave.

=09
________________________________

=09
	From: owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org [mailto:owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org]
<mailto:owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org%5d>  On Behalf Of Marvin Theimer
	Sent: 05 May 2006 01:48
	To: ogsa-wg@ggf.org
	Subject: [ogsa-wg] Initial draft of HPC profile working group
charter
	Hi;
	=20
	Enclosed is an initial draft of the OGSA HPC profile working
group charter.  This will be brought up for discussion at the HPC
profile BoF at the upcoming GGF17 conferenece in Tokyo.  In the mean
time, please feel free to comment on the draft via email to this mailing
list.
	=20
	Thanks,
	Marvin.

=20

--=20
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dr. David Wallom
Technical Manager
Oxford e-Research Centre
University of Oxford
c/o OUCS
13 Banbury Road
Oxford
OX2 6NN

Tel  : +44 (0)1865 283378
email: david.wallom@ierc.ox.ac.uk
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------_=_NextPart_001_01C67218.107EBCFE
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11
(filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<title>Re: [ogsa-wg] Initial draft of HPC profile working group =
charter</title> <o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
 name=3D"Street"/>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
 name=3D"PlaceName"/>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
 name=3D"PlaceType"/>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
 name=3D"address"/>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
 name=3D"place"/>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
 name=3D"City"/>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
 name=3D"PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
 /* Font Definitions */
 @font-face
	{font-family:Tahoma;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Verdana;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
 /* Style Definitions */
 p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0in;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
p
	{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
	margin-right:0in;
	mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
	margin-left:0in;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle18
	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	font-family:Arial;
	color:navy;}
@page Section1
	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
	margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
	{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>

</head>

<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>As I’ve said from the beginning, I view data transfer as =
being something that can and should be able to stand separately. 
So = creating a separate data profile certainly seems reasonable on
first = reflection.  However, I would argue that the HPC profile
will need to reference/incorporate = that profile in some manner since
and end-to-end vertical profile for HPC is meaningless without a data
component to it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>We should definitely discuss this issue in the =
BoF.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Marvin.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font
=
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> David
= Wallom [mailto:david.wallom@ierc.ox.ac.uk] <br> <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, May 06, =
2006 9:55
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Marvin  Theimer</st1:PersonName>; Dave Berry;
ogsa-wg@ggf.org; = dmis-bof@ggf.org; ogsa-d-wg@gridforum.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ogsa-wg] =
Initial draft of HPC profile working group
charter</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

Hi
Marvin, From reading most of the correspondence on this topic
and from various conversations about this with various people I was
wondering if we could actually launch a separate Data profile since
tacking this onto the end = of the HPC profile could possibly prove
limiting. I was wondering if the data discussion would be a specific
part of the BOF? Regards David On 5/5/06
16:15, "<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Marvin =
Theimer</st1:PersonName>" <theimer@microsoft.com>
wrote:<o:p></o:p>

Hi; 
  
You are right that most of the discussion so far has been about job =
submission and not about the related need to get data from client to
execution
subsystem(s) and back again.  But since the goal of the group is to
= define a profile covering the end-to-end vertical use cases, I know
that we = will need to tackle the topic of data staging at some point.
 As with JSDL = and BES’s relation to the job submission
parts of the work, I’m = hoping we will be able to substantially
leverage other existing work, such as = that of the data DMIS groups, as
appropriate.  I’ll make that more = explicit in the next
revision of the draft charter.   Thanks for pointing this
matter out, Marvin.<o:p></o:p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font
=
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

From: Dave
Berry [<a
href=3D"mailto:daveb@nesc.ac.uk%5d">mailto:daveb@nesc.ac.uk]</a> 
Sent: Friday, May 05, =
2006 7:14 AM 
To: <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Marvin Theimer</st1:PersonName>; ogsa-wg@ggf.org;
dmis-bof@ggf.org; ogsa-d-wg@gridforum.org Subject: RE: [ogsa-wg] = Initial
draft of HPC profile working group charter Hi, 
 
All the discussion I've seen about this profile so far
= has focussed on specifying and submitting jobs, but the proposed
charter = says that this is only one of two areas of interest; the other
being data staging.
 The immediate question is what link will this profile work have to
= the Data Movement Interface Specification group?  Will the
profile = refer to the DMIS spec in the same way that it will refer to
JSDL and BES? =  (Of course, JSDL also covers data staging to some
extent). Work is also continuing on the data aspects of the =
OGSA architecture, in the OGSA Data WG.  I would encourage the HPC
= profile group to engage with the OGSA Data group and the DMIS group
concerning = how to fit data staging into the overall architecture. 
 Unfortunately I won't be in <st1:City =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Tokyo</st1:place></st1:City> next
week but it would be = useful if members of these groups could get
together there to agree a working relationship. 
Best wishes, 
 
Dave.<o:p></o:p>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font
=
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

From:
owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org [<a =
href=3D"mailto:owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org%5d">mailto:owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org]</
a=
...
On Behalf Of =
<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Marvin
Theimer</st1:PersonName> Sent: 05 May 2006 = 01:48 
To: ogsa-wg@ggf.org 
Subject: [ogsa-wg] =
Initial draft of HPC profile working group charter 
Hi;   Enclosed is an initial draft of the
OGSA HPC profile working group = charter.
 This will be brought up for discussion at the HPC profile BoF at =
the upcoming GGF17 conferenece in <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Tokyo</st1:place></st1:City>.
 In the mean time, please feel free to comment on the draft via =
email to this mailing list.   Thanks, 
Marvin.<o:p></o:p>

</blockquote>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt; font-family:Verdana'><br> <br>
-- <br>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<br>
Dr. David Wallom<br>
Technical Manager<br>
<st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Oxford</st1:place></st1:City>
e-Research Centre<br>
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">University</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName
w:st=3D"on">Oxford</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><br>
c/o OUCS<br>
<st1:Street w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on">13 Banbury =
Road</st1:address></st1:Street><br>
<st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Oxford</st1:place></st1:City><br>
OX2 6NN<br>
<br>
Tel  : +44 (0)1865 283378<br>
email: david.wallom@ierc.ox.ac.uk<br>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C67218.107EBCFE--

Dave Berry

tags

participants (1)