Members of BES, I apologize for acting hastely on this issue. As Ian pointed out, he was merely querying as to the order of the author lists. I can honestly say that, as for my part, names on the author list were ordered randomly. I merely took the list as it was and inserted names either at the end, or as the mouse happened to land. If there are official rules governing this type of thing, then those rules should be applied. I think it would be best if someone else took the pen to the document on this one as I am not sure which 5 people the list should be paired down to (which I understand from Ian is the author limit suggested by IETF). If my name ends up on the list, then I graciously accept the honor, but I neither require nor expect that. -Mark

-----Original Message----- From: ogsa-bes-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-bes-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Ian Foster Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:27 PM To: mark@mark-morgan.org Cc: 'Mail list for ogsa-bes-wg working group' Subject: Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] New document

Mark

I asked you what criteria were applied to selecting and ordering authors, and mentioned that at least for ietf rfcs only 5 authors are allowed--not sure if this applies in ogf.

While I think alphabetical is often easy, I certainly don't want to be first author. I also don't want my name on the list if yours isn't--that would be quite inappropriate.

Ian

Mark Morgan wrote:

...

Apparently I greatly offended Mr. Ian Foster who felt that his position on the author list didn't represent either his effort, or the IETF rules (which until today I didn't know). I have uploaded a new document which alphabatizes the names and have removed myself from the author list. Please see document version 31, now located in gridforge.

-Mark

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--

Ian Foster, Director, Computation Institute Argonne National Laboratory & University of Chicago Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439 Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637 Tel: +1 630 252 4619. Web: www.ci.uchicago.edu. Globus Alliance: www.globus.org.

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Mark, Being guilty of being the primary author/editor of a number of documents where more than 3 people appear on the Editors/Authors list, let me emphasize Hiro's comment that this is a recommendation/request. It is always difficult to remove people's names from the front page once they make it there. In brief, if you can find a way to trim down the list fine, but don't let this stop you from going to public comment.

From observation here is what I would recommend. About ordering, alphabetize. If you are making a distinction between authors/editors, you could choose to put the editors first on the list. (So Editors are alphabetized, and the rest are alphabetized.) If people agree that someone has done a lot more work than anyone else (so he is the primary editor or author) then it is also ok to put them first and then alphabetize the rest.

If you find that you really really want to put more than one person out-of-order then I think you have successfully split the long list into the names that should be on the front and the ones that should be put in the Contributors section. Just my 2c. Andreas Hiro Kishimoto wrote:

Hi Mark and Ian,

...

If there are official rules governing this type of thing, then those rules should be applied.

The following is the GFSG's recommendation and is described in the latest OGF document template in chapter 4. There is no hard limit up to 5, but soft limit up to 3 instead.

https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc8278

...

The actual Authors (or Editors) listed on the title page are those committed to taking permanent stewardship for this document – receiving communication in the future and otherwise being responsive to its content. The GFSG recommends at most three Author/Editors be listed on the title page, unless there are compelling reasons to list more.

I don't know there is any ordering recommendation by OGF Editor or GFSG.

Thanks, ---- Hiro Kishimoto

Mark Morgan wrote:

...

Members of BES,

I apologize for acting hastely on this issue. As Ian pointed out, he was merely querying as to the order of the author lists. I can honestly say that, as for my part, names on the author list were ordered randomly. I merely took the list as it was and inserted names either at the end, or as the mouse happened to land. If there are official rules governing this type of thing, then those rules should be applied. I think it would be best if someone else took the pen to the document on this one as I am not sure which 5 people the list should be paired down to (which I understand from Ian is the author limit suggested by IETF). If my name ends up on the list, then I graciously accept the honor, but I neither require nor expect that.

-Mark

...

-----Original Message----- From: ogsa-bes-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-bes-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Ian Foster Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:27 PM To: mark@mark-morgan.org Cc: 'Mail list for ogsa-bes-wg working group' Subject: Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] New document

Mark

I asked you what criteria were applied to selecting and ordering authors, and mentioned that at least for ietf rfcs only 5 authors are allowed--not sure if this applies in ogf.

While I think alphabetical is often easy, I certainly don't want to be first author. I also don't want my name on the list if yours isn't--that would be quite inappropriate.

Ian

Mark Morgan wrote:

...

Apparently I greatly offended Mr. Ian Foster who felt that his position on the author list didn't represent either his effort, or the IETF rules (which until today I didn't know). I have uploaded a new document which alphabatizes the names and have removed myself from the author list. Please see document version 31, now located in gridforge. -Mark

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--

Ian Foster, Director, Computation Institute Argonne National Laboratory & University of Chicago Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439 Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637 Tel: +1 630 252 4619. Web: www.ci.uchicago.edu. Globus Alliance: www.globus.org.

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-- ogsa-bes-wg mailing list ogsa-bes-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogsa-bes-wg

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For what its worth, attached is a figure showing the distribution of author numbers for the published GFD documents (documents in any other stage of the doc pipeline are not included). The red line shows the number of authors, the green line the same for those docs where the author list was alphabetical sorted. The latter is likely to include author lists which are accidentically sorted (e.g. for one author ;-) ). There seems to be no policy enforcement indeed :-) Very small numbers (1,2) are obviously preferred. Cheers, Andre. Quoting [Stephen M Pickles] (Feb 05 2007):

From: Stephen M Pickles <Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk> To: Andreas Savva <andreas.savva@jp.fujitsu.com>, "mark@mark-morgan.org" <mark@mark-morgan.org> Cc: Greg Newby <newby@arsc.edu>, Mail list for ogsa-bes-wg working group <ogsa-bes-wg@ogf.org> Subject: Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] New document

All,

Greg Newby, the OGF editor, has given me advice on this.

OGF policy is not particularly prescriptive. The revised GFD #1 (still in draft) will specify three as a good number for authors, and five as a reasonable (but not hard) maximum, and will advise that the Contributor section be used for others.

Greg also takes the view (and the GFSG supports this) that anyone listed as an author must individually be willing to take full responsibility for the document, now and forever. This will go into the revised GFD #1, too. It's the important part, in Greg's view.

OGF is silent on the ordering of authors.

Hope this helps,

Stephen

...

-----Original Message----- From: ogsa-bes-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-bes-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Savva Sent: 05 February 2007 06:10 To: mark@mark-morgan.org Cc: Greg Newby; 'Mail list for ogsa-bes-wg working group' Subject: Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] New document

Mark,

Being guilty of being the primary author/editor of a number of documents where more than 3 people appear on the Editors/Authors list, let me emphasize Hiro's comment that this is a recommendation/request. It is always difficult to remove people's names from the front page once they make it there.

In brief, if you can find a way to trim down the list fine, but don't let this stop you from going to public comment.

...

From observation here is what I would recommend. About ordering, alphabetize. If you are making a distinction between authors/editors, you could choose to put the editors first on the list. (So Editors are alphabetized, and the rest are alphabetized.) If people agree that someone has done a lot more work than anyone else (so he is the primary editor or author) then it is also ok to put them first and then alphabetize the rest.

If you find that you really really want to put more than one person out-of-order then I think you have successfully split the long list into the names that should be on the front and the ones that should be put in the Contributors section.

Just my 2c. Andreas

...

Hi Mark and Ian,

...

If there are official rules governing this type of thing, then those rules should be applied.

The following is the GFSG's recommendation and is described in the latest OGF document template in chapter 4. There is no hard limit up to 5, but soft limit up to 3 instead.

https://forge.gridforum.org/sf/go/doc8278

...

The actual Authors (or Editors) listed on the title page are those committed to taking permanent stewardship for this document - receiving communication in the future and otherwise being responsive to its content. The GFSG recommends at most three Author/Editors be listed on the title page, unless there are compelling reasons to list more.

I don't know there is any ordering recommendation by OGF Editor or GFSG.

Thanks, ---- Hiro Kishimoto

Mark Morgan wrote:

...

Members of BES,

I apologize for acting hastely on this issue. As Ian

Hiro Kishimoto wrote: pointed out, he was

...

...

merely querying as to the order of the author lists. I can honestly say that, as for my part, names on the author list were ordered randomly. I merely took the list as it was and inserted names either at the end, or as the mouse happened to land. If there are official rules governing this type of thing, then those rules should be applied. I think it would be best if someone else took the pen to the document on this one as I am not sure which 5 people the list should be paired down to (which I understand from Ian is the author limit suggested by IETF). If my name ends up on the list, then I graciously accept the honor, but I neither require nor expect that.

-Mark

...

-----Original Message----- From: ogsa-bes-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-bes-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Ian Foster Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:27 PM To: mark@mark-morgan.org Cc: 'Mail list for ogsa-bes-wg working group' Subject: Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] New document

Mark

I asked you what criteria were applied to selecting and ordering authors, and mentioned that at least for ietf rfcs only 5 authors are allowed--not sure if this applies in ogf.

While I think alphabetical is often easy, I certainly don't want to be first author. I also don't want my name on the list if yours isn't--that would be quite inappropriate.

Ian

Mark Morgan wrote:

...

Apparently I greatly offended Mr. Ian Foster who felt that his position on the author list didn't represent either his effort, or the IETF rules (which until today I didn't know). I have uploaded a new document which alphabatizes the names and have removed myself from the author list. Please see document version 31, now located in gridforge. -Mark

-- ogsa-bes-wg mailing list ogsa-bes-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogsa-bes-wg

--

Ian Foster, Director, Computation Institute Argonne National Laboratory & University of Chicago Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439 Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637 Tel: +1 630 252 4619. Web: www.ci.uchicago.edu. Globus Alliance: www.globus.org.

-- ogsa-bes-wg mailing list ogsa-bes-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogsa-bes-wg

-- ogsa-bes-wg mailing list ogsa-bes-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogsa-bes-wg

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-- ogsa-bes-wg mailing list ogsa-bes-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogsa-bes-wg -- "So much time, so little to do..." -- Garfield