May 2005 - ogsa-bes-bof - lists.ogf.org

mailing list switch over request
by Hiro Kishimoto 26 May '05

26 May '05

Hi all, Since OGSA-BES-WG(a)ggf.org is now setup. I think it is time to stop using *-bof list. Please switch over to the OFFICIAL list. Thanks, ---- Hiro Kishimoto

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[Fwd: JSDL specification and schema snapshots (draft 19)]
by Andreas Savva 26 May '05

26 May '05

New jsdl spec and schema snapshots are available for those interested. -- Andreas Savva

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Re: [ogsa-wg] Perhaps useful input to BES discussion
by Karl Czajkowski 26 May '05

26 May '05

I agree with Donal's assessment. Particularly, GRAM is very much a container interface in my view. If and what interface(s) are provided by the job code itself are totally outside the scope of GRAM. The fact that we rendered individual "job" resources is a result of our WSRF-style rendering of the container state for a slight abstraction of POSIX/HPC jobs: each "job" is a logical container that corresponds to one submission relationship and its delivery status. As I have explained, I think this relationship and the logical container is our best point of interop regarding the semantics of the larger scope container or "managed execution pool". The more you try to talk about the global state of the container, the more you run into differences in local scheduling strategies, authorization policies, etc. By the way, this submission relationship is precisely what we would be representing as agreements if we were to provide a JSDL+WS-Agreement rendering of BES. As I tried to advocate at the BES BOF in Seoul and later on telecons, I think the right approach is to always have a container interface and then have a completely separate notion of the job (application) service endpoints if appropriate. At most, I think a BES container could represent a rendezvous point or "mini registry" where some applications MAY want to publish their other contact information for the sake of bootstrapping distributed application environments. In other cases, information will be threaded through the submission language and/or job code itself to go off and join the "application registry in the sky"... This discussion is orthogonal to the discussion of rendering styles for the container state(s). Personally, I am disappointed that the BES discussions seem mired in this rendering-style discussion, because it is certainly not specific nor even particularly related to execution management. If OGSA does not find a path forward, I think there is little hope of getting consensus in all the different activities where it matters: specific concrete renderings of functionality that can be used to get better interoperability between Grid software products. The community really does not need more abstract standards or "patterns"... it needs concrete message formats that can support interoperability now and as the overall Grid environment continues to evolve. karl On May 26, Donal K. Fellows loaded a tape reading: > Hiro Kishimoto wrote: > >- We think MJFS corresponds to container instead of Job Manager. > >- MJFS and others cover most of "container" interface but not all. > >For example, BES-WG will define check-pointing interface which > >is not supported by GRAM. > >- GRAM covers "job" interface, which is out of BES-WG's scope. > > That's funny, because that does not meet my recollection of the > discussion in the BES f2f. Instead, I believe that we agreed that the > definition of a common base set of activity port types was going to be > probably impossible. There seemed to be substantial agreement that the > definition of job managability interfaces for "POSIX activities" (i.e. > those derived from a JSDL POSIXApplication) was both worthwhile and > in-scope. OK, I may have misinterpreted what was said, but that was > definitely my impression. > > I'd also equivocate over checkpointing somewhat, as I got the impression > that that was an example of something that people felt to be part of an > "Advanced Execution Service" (we were seeking to distinguish between > Basic and Advanced at the time). > > Donal Fellows. -- Karl Czajkowski karlcz(a)univa.com

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Perhaps useful input to BES discussion
by Ian Foster 26 May '05

26 May '05

Dear All: I am sending this draft document in case it is relevant to the OGSA-WG and/or BES discussions. In this document, I use a simple example (a skeleton execution service) to compare and contrast four approaches to representing state, namely WSRF, WS-Transfer, REST, and "state id." I haven't sent this earlier because I'd hoped to integrate numerous comments that I've received from Savas and others. I hope to do so in the next week or two, but perhaps this draft is still of interest. Regards -- Ian. _______________________________________________________________ Ian Foster www.mcs.anl.gov/~foster Math & Computer Science Div. Dept of Computer Science Argonne National Laboratory The University of Chicago Argonne, IL 60439, U.S.A. Chicago, IL 60637, U.S.A. Tel: 630 252 4619 Fax: 630 252 1997 Globus Alliance, www.globus.org

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RE: Dial-in number for London F2F meeting
by Hiro Kishimoto 22 May '05

22 May '05

Hi all, It turns out that the meeting room at IC does not have phone line. Thus a phone bridge is not working. If you plan to dial in, we may try to use skype instead. Sorry for any inconvenience. ---- Hiro Kishimoto > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ogsa-wg(a)ggf.org [mailto:owner-ogsa-wg@ggf.org] On Behalf Of Hiro > Kishimoto > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 4:11 AM > To: 'ogsa-wg' > Subject: [ogsa-wg] Dial-in number for London F2F meeting > > Hi all, > > Dial-in number for London F2F meeting is as follows. These numbers > work for Sunday through Thursday. This is provided by Fujitsu > Laboratories of Europe. Thanks Dave for your support. > > UK toll free: 0808 1005145 > US toll free: 1866 2485984 > JP toll free: 0034 800400552 > Pass code: 2051278 > > See "BT MeetMe Global Access numbers sheet" for another countries. > > Thanks, > ---- > Hiro Kishimoto >

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Agenda for BES on Sunday
by Andrew Grimshaw 19 May '05

19 May '05

AGENDA Objective: Not only discuss - but write the draft BES specification for subsequent tuning prior to GGF in Chicago. 10:00-10:30 Organization Grimshaw Introductions Agenda bashing 10:30-11:00 - Overall Service Structure Grimshaw What are the parts? E.g., service "factory-like" components - see original document, "management" aspects, etc. There will be a strawman presented 11:00-12:15 Submit/create/info/destroy interface - see existing documents Short background on JSDL Steve McGough (Note: please read the current JSDL specification before arriving) JSDL "profile" to use, i.e., what subset of JSDL do we expect BES to understand 12:15-12:30 Recap and summarize 12:30-13:30 Short lunch and informal discussions 13:30-15:00 "Management" aspects of BES containers Resource model presentation by Fred Maciel - 30 min 15:00-15:15 Break 15:15-16:30 Break up into groups and write sections 16:30-18:00 Integrate and discuss sections 18:00-21:00 Beer, dinner, and gossip

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BES telecon
by Andrew Grimshaw 19 May '05

19 May '05

All, Recall there is no telecom this week. (I had thought there was - but on checking last week's mail there is not.) We will be sending out an agenda for Sunday later this afternoon. Note: we will be starting at 10 am, not 9:00. Andrew

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Agenda for May 12 call
by Andrew Grimshaw 09 May '05

09 May '05

All, Attached are the (short) minutes from the last call. Note: The call-in information has changed!!! Toll-free dial-in: 1-877-422-0036 Toll/International dial-in: 1-314-655-1412 Tie-line dial-in: 422-0036 Participant passcode: 496684 Proposed Agenda: Agenda bashing Continue agreement discussion 20 - minutes Discussion of the question of "how basic is basic?" Steven asked a good question on the call two weeks ago. To paraphrase, is for example, file staging out of scope - because file staging is itself a service that would be invoked and managed by a "job manager". I'll give a more precise definition on the call. Note this is the last call before the F2F on Sunday in London. Steven, do we have a local yet? Andrew

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Agenda for Thursday May 5th BES telecon
by Andrew Grimshaw 02 May '05

02 May '05

All, We had a very good telecom last Thursday. Mark Morgan will be sending out the minutes early next week. I am attaching the powerpoint that we worked on. We decided to discuss "agreement" on the next telecom. Karl Czajkowski is going to send us a link to the most recent document that we should read. I also recommend reading the most recent JSDL documents. Agenda: Agenda bashing Approve minutes Presentation of WS-Agreement - Karl can you do this? Discussion

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