All, A question has arisen regarding the network provision at OGF20 and EGEE-UF 2. Is anyone likely to be running a demonstration in the exhibition that will involve incoming connections? We need to be able to provide up to 900 or so IP addresses. If all connections will be outgoing, it should be possible to do this using Network Address Translation. If some connections will be incoming, then it is likely that real IP addresses will be needed. An early response will be very helpful. Obtaining 900+ real IP addresses will require some negotiation and cannot be guaranteed at this stage. Adopting a hybrid solution of NAT for wireless and real IP addresses for wired ethernet to the booths is possible, but would add complexity to the network design and configuration. Stephen PS We're assuming IPV6 will not be required. ==================== Stephen M. Pickles ==================== Technical Director, National Grid Service Manchester Computing Room G49.1, Kilburn Building The University of Manchester tel: +44 161 275 5974 Oxford Road fax: +44 161 275 6800 Manchester M13 9PL stephen.pickles@manchester.ac.uk
Hi Stephen, I forward this request to the more technical people who I hope can answer your questions. Best regards, Kristina -----Original Message----- From: Stephen M Pickles [mailto:Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk] Sent: 08 February 2007 14:29 To: ogf20pc@ogf.org; Kristina Ulrika Gunne; Steven Newhouse Subject: Network question All, A question has arisen regarding the network provision at OGF20 and EGEE-UF 2. Is anyone likely to be running a demonstration in the exhibition that will involve incoming connections? We need to be able to provide up to 900 or so IP addresses. If all connections will be outgoing, it should be possible to do this using Network Address Translation. If some connections will be incoming, then it is likely that real IP addresses will be needed. An early response will be very helpful. Obtaining 900+ real IP addresses will require some negotiation and cannot be guaranteed at this stage. Adopting a hybrid solution of NAT for wireless and real IP addresses for wired ethernet to the booths is possible, but would add complexity to the network design and configuration. Stephen PS We're assuming IPV6 will not be required. ==================== Stephen M. Pickles ==================== Technical Director, National Grid Service Manchester Computing Room G49.1, Kilburn Building The University of Manchester tel: +44 161 275 5974 Oxford Road fax: +44 161 275 6800 Manchester M13 9PL stephen.pickles@manchester.ac.uk
Hi Stephen et al., In general we do not require inbound connectivity. The typical pattern is connecting and driving the demo via a web service located elsewhere. I would like that the connection for demo (~20) could be copper instead of wifi to protect them from network instabilities. Since anyway a "cable" has to pulled to the exhibition room, this should not add to the complexity (and cost) in any significant way. I agree on the assumption of IPv4 only. What is the uplink capacity you are negotiating? With my best regards, Massimo -----Original Message----- From: Kristina Ulrika Gunne Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 14:31 To: Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk; ogf20pc@ogf.org; Steven Newhouse Cc: Massimo Lamanna; Erwin Laure Subject: RE: Network question Importance: High Hi Stephen, I forward this request to the more technical people who I hope can answer your questions. Best regards, Kristina -----Original Message----- From: Stephen M Pickles [mailto:Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk] Sent: 08 February 2007 14:29 To: ogf20pc@ogf.org; Kristina Ulrika Gunne; Steven Newhouse Subject: Network question All, A question has arisen regarding the network provision at OGF20 and EGEE-UF 2. Is anyone likely to be running a demonstration in the exhibition that will involve incoming connections? We need to be able to provide up to 900 or so IP addresses. If all connections will be outgoing, it should be possible to do this using Network Address Translation. If some connections will be incoming, then it is likely that real IP addresses will be needed. An early response will be very helpful. Obtaining 900+ real IP addresses will require some negotiation and cannot be guaranteed at this stage. Adopting a hybrid solution of NAT for wireless and real IP addresses for wired ethernet to the booths is possible, but would add complexity to the network design and configuration. Stephen PS We're assuming IPV6 will not be required. ==================== Stephen M. Pickles ==================== Technical Director, National Grid Service Manchester Computing Room G49.1, Kilburn Building The University of Manchester tel: +44 161 275 5974 Oxford Road fax: +44 161 275 6800 Manchester M13 9PL stephen.pickles@manchester.ac.uk
Hi Massimo, In general, I would have thought that demos would not require inbound connectivity. I'm trying to flush out any exceptions to the general case now. We are already planning on wired connections to the demonstrations. There will be some cost implications due to cabling and ducting and getting wires to each demonstration and each exhibition booth that needs it. (The cost is not negligible if the venues' default costing model -- per each -- is applied, so we'll have to work on that.) We're negotiating on the basis of 1 Gbps. This is consistent with scaling up usage traces from OGF19 last week, and assuming that GGF16 was over-provisioned at 2 x 1 Gbps. Stephen
-----Original Message----- From: Massimo Lamanna [mailto:Massimo.Lamanna@cern.ch] Sent: 08 February 2007 16:49 To: Kristina Ulrika Gunne; Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk; ogf20pc@ogf.org; Steven Newhouse Cc: Erwin Laure; Massimo Lamanna Subject: RE: Network question
Hi Stephen et al., In general we do not require inbound connectivity. The typical pattern is connecting and driving the demo via a web service located elsewhere.
I would like that the connection for demo (~20) could be copper instead of wifi to protect them from network instabilities. Since anyway a "cable" has to pulled to the exhibition room, this should not add to the complexity (and cost) in any significant way.
I agree on the assumption of IPv4 only.
What is the uplink capacity you are negotiating?
With my best regards, Massimo
-----Original Message----- From: Kristina Ulrika Gunne Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 14:31 To: Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk; ogf20pc@ogf.org; Steven Newhouse Cc: Massimo Lamanna; Erwin Laure Subject: RE: Network question Importance: High
Hi Stephen,
I forward this request to the more technical people who I hope can answer your questions.
Best regards,
Kristina
-----Original Message----- From: Stephen M Pickles [mailto:Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk] Sent: 08 February 2007 14:29 To: ogf20pc@ogf.org; Kristina Ulrika Gunne; Steven Newhouse Subject: Network question
All,
A question has arisen regarding the network provision at OGF20 and EGEE-UF 2.
Is anyone likely to be running a demonstration in the exhibition that will involve incoming connections?
We need to be able to provide up to 900 or so IP addresses. If all connections will be outgoing, it should be possible to do this using Network Address Translation. If some connections will be incoming, then it is likely that real IP addresses will be needed.
An early response will be very helpful. Obtaining 900+ real IP addresses will require some negotiation and cannot be guaranteed at this stage. Adopting a hybrid solution of NAT for wireless and real IP addresses for wired ethernet to the booths is possible, but would add complexity to the network design and configuration.
Stephen
PS We're assuming IPV6 will not be required.
==================== Stephen M. Pickles ====================
Technical Director, National Grid Service Manchester Computing Room G49.1, Kilburn Building The University of Manchester tel: +44 161 275 5974 Oxford Road fax: +44 161 275 6800 Manchester M13 9PL stephen.pickles@manchester.ac.uk
There are many times I have needed real IP's for demos as NATs do not support all connection models but I'm not giving a demo! Often it requires special tweaks of the client and/or good NAT configuration to enable connections. UDP can be especially hard for server side messages to get back to client Stephen M Pickles wrote:
Hi Massimo,
In general, I would have thought that demos would not require inbound connectivity. I'm trying to flush out any exceptions to the general case now.
We are already planning on wired connections to the demonstrations. There will be some cost implications due to cabling and ducting and getting wires to each demonstration and each exhibition booth that needs it. (The cost is not negligible if the venues' default costing model -- per each -- is applied, so we'll have to work on that.)
We're negotiating on the basis of 1 Gbps. This is consistent with scaling up usage traces from OGF19 last week, and assuming that GGF16 was over-provisioned at 2 x 1 Gbps.
Stephen
-----Original Message----- From: Massimo Lamanna [mailto:Massimo.Lamanna@cern.ch] Sent: 08 February 2007 16:49 To: Kristina Ulrika Gunne; Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk; ogf20pc@ogf.org; Steven Newhouse Cc: Erwin Laure; Massimo Lamanna Subject: RE: Network question
Hi Stephen et al., In general we do not require inbound connectivity. The typical pattern is connecting and driving the demo via a web service located elsewhere.
I would like that the connection for demo (~20) could be copper instead of wifi to protect them from network instabilities. Since anyway a "cable" has to pulled to the exhibition room, this should not add to the complexity (and cost) in any significant way.
I agree on the assumption of IPv4 only.
What is the uplink capacity you are negotiating?
With my best regards, Massimo
-----Original Message----- From: Kristina Ulrika Gunne Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 14:31 To: Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk; ogf20pc@ogf.org; Steven Newhouse Cc: Massimo Lamanna; Erwin Laure Subject: RE: Network question Importance: High
Hi Stephen,
I forward this request to the more technical people who I hope can answer your questions.
Best regards,
Kristina
-----Original Message----- From: Stephen M Pickles [mailto:Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk] Sent: 08 February 2007 14:29 To: ogf20pc@ogf.org; Kristina Ulrika Gunne; Steven Newhouse Subject: Network question
All,
A question has arisen regarding the network provision at OGF20 and EGEE-UF 2.
Is anyone likely to be running a demonstration in the exhibition that will involve incoming connections?
We need to be able to provide up to 900 or so IP addresses. If all connections will be outgoing, it should be possible to do this using Network Address Translation. If some connections will be incoming, then it is likely that real IP addresses will be needed.
An early response will be very helpful. Obtaining 900+ real IP addresses will require some negotiation and cannot be guaranteed at this stage. Adopting a hybrid solution of NAT for wireless and real IP addresses for wired ethernet to the booths is possible, but would add complexity to the network design and configuration.
Stephen
PS We're assuming IPV6 will not be required.
==================== Stephen M. Pickles ====================
Technical Director, National Grid Service Manchester Computing Room G49.1, Kilburn Building The University of Manchester tel: +44 161 275 5974 Oxford Road fax: +44 161 275 6800 Manchester M13 9PL stephen.pickles@manchester.ac.uk
_______________________________________________ ogf20pc mailing list ogf20pc@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf20pc
-- : : Geoffrey Fox gcf@indiana.edu FAX 8128567972 http://www.infomall.org : Phones Cell 812-219-4643 Home 8123239196 Lab 8128567977 : SkypeIn 812-669-0772 with voicemail, International cell 8123910207
Hi Stephen, I can link you with my networking guys that did both the EGEE-3 conference and the GGF16 in Athens. For those we got 4 class C addresses (a bit more than a thousand IPs). Indeed it takes some negotiation with the national registry, but it is a standard procedure. Your hybrid solution is also ok (and maybe more secure) but indeed adds to the complexity. Let's take the rest off line, All the best, Fotis Stephen M Pickles wrote:
All,
A question has arisen regarding the network provision at OGF20 and EGEE-UF 2.
Is anyone likely to be running a demonstration in the exhibition that will involve incoming connections?
We need to be able to provide up to 900 or so IP addresses. If all connections will be outgoing, it should be possible to do this using Network Address Translation. If some connections will be incoming, then it is likely that real IP addresses will be needed.
An early response will be very helpful. Obtaining 900+ real IP addresses will require some negotiation and cannot be guaranteed at this stage. Adopting a hybrid solution of NAT for wireless and real IP addresses for wired ethernet to the booths is possible, but would add complexity to the network design and configuration.
Stephen
PS We're assuming IPV6 will not be required.
==================== Stephen M. Pickles ====================
Technical Director, National Grid Service Manchester Computing Room G49.1, Kilburn Building The University of Manchester tel: +44 161 275 5974 Oxford Road fax: +44 161 275 6800 Manchester M13 9PL stephen.pickles@manchester.ac.uk
_______________________________________________ ogf20pc mailing list ogf20pc@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf20pc
-- Fotis Karayannis, Dr. Eng. Infrastructure Development and Planning Manager Greek Research & Technology Network-GRNET S.A. http://www.grnet.gr 56, Mesogion Ave., Ampelokipi 4th Floor, Technical Department GR11527 Athens Phone : +30 210 7474241 (direct) +30 210 7474254 Fax : +30 210 7474490 Mobile: +30 6977 606169
Thanks, Fotis. Did you have a known requirement for real IP addresses? Or did you do it that way just to be safe? Best regards, Stephen PS All - we're also assuming that no-one will need multicast support. Speak now or forever hold your peace!
-----Original Message----- From: Fotis Karayannis [mailto:fkara@grnet.gr] Sent: 08 February 2007 15:07 To: Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk Cc: ogf20pc@ogf.org; Kristina Ulrika Gunne; Steven Newhouse; Spiros Athanasakis; GRNET Admin support Subject: Re: [ogf20pc] Network question
Hi Stephen, I can link you with my networking guys that did both the EGEE-3 conference and the GGF16 in Athens. For those we got 4 class C addresses (a bit more than a thousand IPs). Indeed it takes some negotiation with the national registry, but it is a standard procedure.
Your hybrid solution is also ok (and maybe more secure) but indeed adds to the complexity. Let's take the rest off line, All the best, Fotis
Stephen M Pickles wrote:
All,
A question has arisen regarding the network provision at OGF20 and EGEE-UF 2.
Is anyone likely to be running a demonstration in the exhibition that will involve incoming connections?
We need to be able to provide up to 900 or so IP addresses. If all connections will be outgoing, it should be possible to do this using Network Address Translation. If some connections will be incoming, then it is likely that real IP addresses will be needed.
An early response will be very helpful. Obtaining 900+ real IP addresses will require some negotiation and cannot be guaranteed at this stage. Adopting a hybrid solution of NAT for wireless and real IP addresses for wired ethernet to the booths is possible, but would add complexity to the network design and configuration.
Stephen
PS We're assuming IPV6 will not be required.
==================== Stephen M. Pickles ====================
Technical Director, National Grid Service Manchester Computing Room G49.1, Kilburn Building The University of Manchester tel: +44 161 275 5974 Oxford Road fax: +44 161 275 6800 Manchester M13 9PL stephen.pickles@manchester.ac.uk
_______________________________________________ ogf20pc mailing list ogf20pc@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf20pc
-- Fotis Karayannis, Dr. Eng. Infrastructure Development and Planning Manager Greek Research & Technology Network-GRNET S.A. http://www.grnet.gr
56, Mesogion Ave., Ampelokipi 4th Floor, Technical Department GR11527 Athens Phone : +30 210 7474241 (direct) +30 210 7474254 Fax : +30 210 7474490 Mobile: +30 6977 606169
Hi Stephen, no it is the second. It was easy for us to get the addresses and wanted to be safe. Multicast is required for AccessGrid and similar streaming/conferencing apps (although multicast/unicast bridges can work out ok), but I don't know if there are any such requirements. All the best, Fotis Stephen M Pickles wrote:
Thanks, Fotis.
Did you have a known requirement for real IP addresses? Or did you do it that way just to be safe?
Best regards,
Stephen
PS All - we're also assuming that no-one will need multicast support. Speak now or forever hold your peace!
-----Original Message----- From: Fotis Karayannis [mailto:fkara@grnet.gr] Sent: 08 February 2007 15:07 To: Stephen.Pickles@manchester.ac.uk Cc: ogf20pc@ogf.org; Kristina Ulrika Gunne; Steven Newhouse; Spiros Athanasakis; GRNET Admin support Subject: Re: [ogf20pc] Network question
Hi Stephen, I can link you with my networking guys that did both the EGEE-3 conference and the GGF16 in Athens. For those we got 4 class C addresses (a bit more than a thousand IPs). Indeed it takes some negotiation with the national registry, but it is a standard procedure.
Your hybrid solution is also ok (and maybe more secure) but indeed adds to the complexity. Let's take the rest off line, All the best, Fotis
Stephen M Pickles wrote:
All,
A question has arisen regarding the network provision at OGF20 and EGEE-UF 2.
Is anyone likely to be running a demonstration in the exhibition that will involve incoming connections?
We need to be able to provide up to 900 or so IP addresses. If all connections will be outgoing, it should be possible to do this using Network Address Translation. If some connections will be incoming, then it is likely that real IP addresses will be needed.
An early response will be very helpful. Obtaining 900+ real IP addresses will require some negotiation and cannot be guaranteed at this stage. Adopting a hybrid solution of NAT for wireless and real IP addresses for wired ethernet to the booths is possible, but would add complexity to the network design and configuration.
Stephen
PS We're assuming IPV6 will not be required.
==================== Stephen M. Pickles ====================
Technical Director, National Grid Service Manchester Computing Room G49.1, Kilburn Building The University of Manchester tel: +44 161 275 5974 Oxford Road fax: +44 161 275 6800 Manchester M13 9PL stephen.pickles@manchester.ac.uk
_______________________________________________ ogf20pc mailing list ogf20pc@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf20pc
-- Fotis Karayannis, Dr. Eng. Infrastructure Development and Planning Manager Greek Research & Technology Network-GRNET S.A. http://www.grnet.gr
56, Mesogion Ave., Ampelokipi 4th Floor, Technical Department GR11527 Athens Phone : +30 210 7474241 (direct) +30 210 7474254 Fax : +30 210 7474490 Mobile: +30 6977 606169
-- Fotis Karayannis, Dr. Eng. Infrastructure Development and Planning Manager Greek Research & Technology Network-GRNET S.A. http://www.grnet.gr 56, Mesogion Ave., Ampelokipi 4th Floor, Technical Department GR11527 Athens Phone : +30 210 7474241 (direct) +30 210 7474254 Fax : +30 210 7474490 Mobile: +30 6977 606169
participants (5)
-
Fotis Karayannis -
Geoffrey Fox -
Kristina Ulrika Gunne -
Massimo Lamanna -
Stephen M Pickles