Sharing this discussion on XML rendering... -------- Message original -------- Sujet: Re: XML for OCCI Date : Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:03:22 +0200 De : Augusto Ciuffoletti <augusto.ciuffoletti@gmail.com> Pour : Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr> You can certainly share with the group. I'm elaborating an answer, that I'll post to the group. 2013/9/24 Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr <mailto:jean.parpaillon@free.fr>> Hi Augusto, Le 24/09/2013 10:06, Augusto Ciuffoletti a écrit : > Jean, > > sorry for not being at your presentation: I concentrated on the OGF > session, and I did not consider other good reasons to participate. > No harm: I'm really interested in contributing to OCCI specifications and I have no doubt we have another occasion to meet ! On my side, I have seen your spec about monitoring I consider a really important topic but I am now more focusing on core and renderings parts. > I always started from the assumption that the "true" rendering was HTML, > which is definitely not a simplifying assumption. The JSON and XML > renderings open entirely new horizons. > > I submit you two problems I have with the monitoring API: > > -) one is subtyping mixins, binding their semantic (not simply their > syntax): this is done by introducing tagging mixins, and then saying > that a mixin related with a certain tag must have "certain" attributes > Mixin can also have their own attributes, isn't it enough ? Can you give me an example ? I must admit mixin is a concept I'm not really confortable with. I consider they should be use to add attributes to a resource when is does not make sense to have a separate id for it, but I may be wrong. > -) the other is describing such "certain" attributes: their value is > used to establish a relationship with complementary attributes in > another entity, which is the desired "semantic" (like a "port_number" > attribute) Ok, this is a problem not specific to mixins, IMO. Attributes typing in general should be more advanced in OCCI and, in particular, an attribute could be an OCCI type. My proposal does not handle yet this complex type, even if think it is necessary to handle it. As a quick draft of proposal, I think the following should work: <occi:kind term="manifest" scheme="http://example.org/myschemas#" > <occi:rel term="resource" scheme="http://schemas.ogf.org/occi/infrastructure#" /> <occi:attribute name="nodes" type="occi:entityAttr" minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded" > <occi:rel term="compute" scheme="http://schemas.ogf.org/infrastructure#" /> </occi:attribute> </occi:kind> .. my proposal is missing the definition of "entityAttr", which would be: <xs:complexType name="entityAttr" > <xs:sequence> <xs:element name="rel" type="occi:relatedType" /> </xs:sequence> </xs:complexType> We could then validate the following resource: <occi:resource id="...." > <occi:kind term="manifest" scheme="http://example.org/myschemas#" /> <occi:attribute name="nodes > <occi:value>/path/to/compute/resource</occi:value> <occi:value>/path/to/another/compute/resource</occi:value> </occi:attribute> </occi:resource> Of course, this would imply some code to implement it (it is not pure XSD), but the information is there. > > I see no way to introduce this in an xml schema, but I've never tried > to. In these days, I'm thinking to RDF. Any opinion about this? > I have never used RDF. Anyway, thank for the occasion to provide concrete example of complex attributes. Do you mind I forward this to occi-wg list for comments ? Best regards, Jean > > -- > Augusto Ciuffoletti > Via Milano 118 > 38122 - Trento -- Jean Parpaillon Open Source Consultant Phone: +33 6 30 10 92 86 <tel:%2B33%206%2030%2010%2092%2086> im: jean.parpaillon@gmail.com <mailto:jean.parpaillon@gmail.com> skype: jean.parpaillon linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanparpaillon/en -- Augusto Ciuffoletti Via Milano 118 38122 - Trento
Sharing this discussion on XML rendering...
-------- Message original -------- Sujet: Re: XML for OCCI Date : Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:03:22 +0200 De : Augusto Ciuffoletti <augusto.ciuffoletti@gmail.com> Pour : Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr>
You can certainly share with the group. I'm elaborating an answer, that I'll post to the group.
2013/9/24 Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr <mailto:jean.parpaillon@free.fr>>
Hi Augusto,
Le 24/09/2013 10:06, Augusto Ciuffoletti a écrit : > Jean, > > sorry for not being at your presentation: I concentrated on the OGF > session, and I did not consider other good reasons to participate. >
No harm: I'm really interested in contributing to OCCI specifications and I have no doubt we have another occasion to meet !
On my side, I have seen your spec about monitoring I consider a really important topic but I am now more focusing on core and renderings parts.
> I always started from the assumption that the "true" rendering was HTML, > which is definitely not a simplifying assumption. The JSON and XML > renderings open entirely new horizons. > > I submit you two problems I have with the monitoring API: > > -) one is subtyping mixins, binding their semantic (not simply
I think it would be really cool to have an XML data-format for OCCI :) Priority wise I would like to see the protocol vs data-format split first though. When that is done the JSON spec could finally be released and an XML data-format would be much easier to accomplish as well. Just my two cents. regards, Ralf On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:10:38 +0200, Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr> wrote: their
> syntax): this is done by introducing tagging mixins, and then
saying
> that a mixin related with a certain tag must have "certain" > attributes >
Mixin can also have their own attributes, isn't it enough ? Can you give me an example ? I must admit mixin is a concept I'm not really confortable with. I consider they should be use to add attributes to
a
resource when is does not make sense to have a separate id for it,
but
I may be wrong.
> -) the other is describing such "certain" attributes: their value
is
> used to establish a relationship with complementary attributes in > another entity, which is the desired "semantic" (like a
"port_number"
> attribute)
Ok, this is a problem not specific to mixins, IMO. Attributes typing
in
general should be more advanced in OCCI and, in particular, an attribute could be an OCCI type. My proposal does not handle yet this complex type, even if think it
is
necessary to handle it. As a quick draft of proposal, I think the following should work:
<occi:kind term="manifest" scheme="http://example.org/myschemas#" > <occi:rel term="resource" scheme="http://schemas.ogf.org/occi/infrastructure#" /> <occi:attribute name="nodes" type="occi:entityAttr" minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded" > <occi:rel term="compute" scheme="http://schemas.ogf.org/infrastructure#" /> </occi:attribute> </occi:kind>
.. my proposal is missing the definition of "entityAttr", which would be: <xs:complexType name="entityAttr" > <xs:sequence> <xs:element name="rel" type="occi:relatedType" /> </xs:sequence> </xs:complexType>
We could then validate the following resource:
<occi:resource id="...." > <occi:kind term="manifest" scheme="http://example.org/myschemas#"
/>
<occi:attribute name="nodes > <occi:value>/path/to/compute/resource</occi:value> <occi:value>/path/to/another/compute/resource</occi:value> </occi:attribute> </occi:resource>
Of course, this would imply some code to implement it (it is not
pure
XSD), but the information is there.
> > I see no way to introduce this in an xml schema, but I've never
tried
> to. In these days, I'm thinking to RDF. Any opinion about this? >
I have never used RDF. Anyway, thank for the occasion to provide concrete example of
complex
attributes. Do you mind I forward this to occi-wg list for comments ?
Best regards, Jean
> > -- > Augusto Ciuffoletti > Via Milano 118 > 38122 - Trento
-- Jean Parpaillon Open Source Consultant Phone: +33 6 30 10 92 86 <tel:%2B33%206%2030%2010%2092%2086> im: jean.parpaillon@gmail.com <mailto:jean.parpaillon@gmail.com> skype: jean.parpaillon linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanparpaillon/en
Hi Ralph, Le 24/09/2013 13:36, Ralf Nyren a écrit :
I think it would be really cool to have an XML data-format for OCCI :)
Priority wise I would like to see the protocol vs data-format split first though.
Is there some draft on that topic ? I have some (early) draft about OCCI use with XMPP protocol. I may try to propose some ideas when I will implement the XML rendering on HTTP and XMPP. What other protocol are you thinking about ? websocket ?
When that is done the JSON spec could finally be released and an XML data-format would be much easier to accomplish as well.
Just my two cents.
regards, Ralf
Regards, Jean
Sharing this discussion on XML rendering...
-------- Message original -------- Sujet: Re: XML for OCCI Date : Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:03:22 +0200 De : Augusto Ciuffoletti <augusto.ciuffoletti@gmail.com> Pour : Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr>
You can certainly share with the group. I'm elaborating an answer, that I'll post to the group.
2013/9/24 Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr <mailto:jean.parpaillon@free.fr>>
Hi Augusto,
Le 24/09/2013 10:06, Augusto Ciuffoletti a écrit : > Jean, > > sorry for not being at your presentation: I concentrated on the OGF > session, and I did not consider other good reasons to participate. >
No harm: I'm really interested in contributing to OCCI specifications and I have no doubt we have another occasion to meet !
On my side, I have seen your spec about monitoring I consider a really important topic but I am now more focusing on core and renderings parts.
> I always started from the assumption that the "true" rendering was HTML, > which is definitely not a simplifying assumption. The JSON and XML > renderings open entirely new horizons. > > I submit you two problems I have with the monitoring API: > > -) one is subtyping mixins, binding their semantic (not simply
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:10:38 +0200, Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr> wrote: their
> syntax): this is done by introducing tagging mixins, and then
saying
> that a mixin related with a certain tag must have "certain" > attributes >
Mixin can also have their own attributes, isn't it enough ? Can you give me an example ? I must admit mixin is a concept I'm not really confortable with. I consider they should be use to add attributes to
a
resource when is does not make sense to have a separate id for it,
but
I may be wrong.
> -) the other is describing such "certain" attributes: their value
is
> used to establish a relationship with complementary attributes in > another entity, which is the desired "semantic" (like a
"port_number"
> attribute)
Ok, this is a problem not specific to mixins, IMO. Attributes typing
in
general should be more advanced in OCCI and, in particular, an attribute could be an OCCI type. My proposal does not handle yet this complex type, even if think it
is
necessary to handle it. As a quick draft of proposal, I think the following should work:
<occi:kind term="manifest" scheme="http://example.org/myschemas#" > <occi:rel term="resource" scheme="http://schemas.ogf.org/occi/infrastructure#" /> <occi:attribute name="nodes" type="occi:entityAttr" minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded" > <occi:rel term="compute" scheme="http://schemas.ogf.org/infrastructure#" /> </occi:attribute> </occi:kind>
.. my proposal is missing the definition of "entityAttr", which would be: <xs:complexType name="entityAttr" > <xs:sequence> <xs:element name="rel" type="occi:relatedType" /> </xs:sequence> </xs:complexType>
We could then validate the following resource:
<occi:resource id="...." > <occi:kind term="manifest" scheme="http://example.org/myschemas#"
/>
<occi:attribute name="nodes > <occi:value>/path/to/compute/resource</occi:value> <occi:value>/path/to/another/compute/resource</occi:value> </occi:attribute> </occi:resource>
Of course, this would imply some code to implement it (it is not
pure
XSD), but the information is there.
> > I see no way to introduce this in an xml schema, but I've never
tried
> to. In these days, I'm thinking to RDF. Any opinion about this? >
I have never used RDF. Anyway, thank for the occasion to provide concrete example of
complex
attributes. Do you mind I forward this to occi-wg list for comments ?
Best regards, Jean
> > -- > Augusto Ciuffoletti > Via Milano 118 > 38122 - Trento
-- Jean Parpaillon Open Source Consultant Phone: +33 6 30 10 92 86 <tel:%2B33%206%2030%2010%2092%2086> im: jean.parpaillon@gmail.com <mailto:jean.parpaillon@gmail.com> skype: jean.parpaillon linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanparpaillon/en
-- Jean Parpaillon Open Source Consultant Phone: +33 6 30 10 92 86 im: jean.parpaillon@gmail.com skype: jean.parpaillon linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanparpaillon/en
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 10:11:39 +0200, Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr> wrote:
Hi Ralph,
Le 24/09/2013 13:36, Ralf Nyren a écrit :
I think it would be really cool to have an XML data-format for OCCI :)
Priority wise I would like to see the protocol vs data-format split first though.
Is there some draft on that topic ?
Not anything in draft status yet but there is a start in the "protocol-data-format-split" branch.
I have some (early) draft about OCCI use with XMPP protocol. I may try to propose some ideas when I will implement the XML rendering on HTTP and XMPP. What other protocol are you thinking about ? websocket ?
The first thing would be to split up the current http_rendering into two documents, one describing purely the HTTP protocol parts and the other describing the text/plain data-format. This makes the whole thing decoupled so that new data-formats like e.g. JSON and XML can be added without the risk of creating incompatibilities at the HTTP layer. regards, Ralf
When that is done the JSON spec could finally be released and an XML data-format would be much easier to accomplish as well.
Just my two cents.
regards, Ralf
Regards, Jean
Sharing this discussion on XML rendering...
-------- Message original -------- Sujet: Re: XML for OCCI Date : Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:03:22 +0200 De : Augusto Ciuffoletti <augusto.ciuffoletti@gmail.com> Pour : Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr>
You can certainly share with the group. I'm elaborating an answer, that I'll post to the group.
2013/9/24 Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr <mailto:jean.parpaillon@free.fr>>
Hi Augusto,
Le 24/09/2013 10:06, Augusto Ciuffoletti a écrit : > Jean, > > sorry for not being at your presentation: I concentrated on the OGF > session, and I did not consider other good reasons to participate. >
No harm: I'm really interested in contributing to OCCI specifications and I have no doubt we have another occasion to meet !
On my side, I have seen your spec about monitoring I consider a really important topic but I am now more focusing on core and renderings parts.
> I always started from the assumption that the "true" rendering was HTML, > which is definitely not a simplifying assumption. The JSON and XML > renderings open entirely new horizons. > > I submit you two problems I have with the monitoring API: > > -) one is subtyping mixins, binding their semantic (not simply
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:10:38 +0200, Jean Parpaillon <jean.parpaillon@free.fr> wrote: their
> syntax): this is done by introducing tagging mixins, and then
saying
> that a mixin related with a certain tag must have "certain" > attributes >
Mixin can also have their own attributes, isn't it enough ? Can you give me an example ? I must admit mixin is a concept I'm not really confortable with. I consider they should be use to add attributes to
a
resource when is does not make sense to have a separate id for it,
but
I may be wrong.
> -) the other is describing such "certain" attributes: their value
is
> used to establish a relationship with complementary attributes in > another entity, which is the desired "semantic" (like a
"port_number"
> attribute)
Ok, this is a problem not specific to mixins, IMO. Attributes typing
in
general should be more advanced in OCCI and, in particular, an attribute could be an OCCI type. My proposal does not handle yet this complex type, even if think it
is
necessary to handle it. As a quick draft of proposal, I think the following should work:
<occi:kind term="manifest" scheme="http://example.org/myschemas#" > <occi:rel term="resource" scheme="http://schemas.ogf.org/occi/infrastructure#" /> <occi:attribute name="nodes" type="occi:entityAttr" minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded" > <occi:rel term="compute" scheme="http://schemas.ogf.org/infrastructure#" /> </occi:attribute> </occi:kind>
.. my proposal is missing the definition of "entityAttr", which would be: <xs:complexType name="entityAttr" > <xs:sequence> <xs:element name="rel" type="occi:relatedType" /> </xs:sequence> </xs:complexType>
We could then validate the following resource:
<occi:resource id="...." > <occi:kind term="manifest" scheme="http://example.org/myschemas#"
/>
<occi:attribute name="nodes > <occi:value>/path/to/compute/resource</occi:value> <occi:value>/path/to/another/compute/resource</occi:value> </occi:attribute> </occi:resource>
Of course, this would imply some code to implement it (it is not
pure
XSD), but the information is there.
> > I see no way to introduce this in an xml schema, but I've never
tried
> to. In these days, I'm thinking to RDF. Any opinion about this? >
I have never used RDF. Anyway, thank for the occasion to provide concrete example of
complex
attributes. Do you mind I forward this to occi-wg list for comments ?
Best regards, Jean
> > -- > Augusto Ciuffoletti > Via Milano 118 > 38122 - Trento
-- Jean Parpaillon Open Source Consultant Phone: +33 6 30 10 92 86 <tel:%2B33%206%2030%2010%2092%2086> im: jean.parpaillon@gmail.com <mailto:jean.parpaillon@gmail.com> skype: jean.parpaillon linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanparpaillon/en
participants (2)
-
Jean Parpaillon -
Ralf Nyren