Jeff W.Boote wrote:
A protocol specification should indicate more than the valid messages. It should also define the context in which those messages are valid. If it is possible to cleanly separate the messages from some of the underlying support we receive from soap/http than we should structure it that way. (I believe to a large degree this is possible.)

But, I also think it is absolutely reasonable for us to indicate specifically which lower layer transport we are using once we get to some of the more intricate issues. For example, I would much rather depend on soap and/or http for authentication headers than define that in our messages. If we separate this cleanly, I think we can indicate that we are only doing a 'full' protocol specification for using these messages in a soap/http context and that future protocol specifications can indicate how they are applicable for other transports.

Will this strategy work for people?
Perhaps indeed the protocol should be documented on different levels.  My view is currently
- I am reluctant of locking everything down to SOAP, on the basis of existing implementation. 
- There are number of (non-perfsonar) services nowadays that offer both SOAP and REST interface. The goal of this duality is not interoperability, but flexibility and ease of adoption. A service can offer both, and let the clients decide which one to use. This might be a reasonable goal for NMC.
- Security related (and perhaps other) solutions may rely on transport protocol, and this should be documented , yet not locking the possible solutions to a single protocol.

Best regards,
Nina

On Feb 18, 2010, at 4:44 PM, Michael Bischoff wrote:

If implementation A uses SOAP based webservices and
implementation B uses RESTful webservices they do not operate. So I
think it should be specified, preferably in a different (short)
document.

On that basis I disagree. There might well be a implementation C that 
provides both a SOAP and RESTfull interface. Since that just starts the
best of breed game as far as transport is concerned. Freedom here
promotes adoption.

I do not believe this is true, but perhaps I don't understand what you are trying to say. In my opinion, freedom to 'do it however you want' does not promote adoption, it hinders interoperability which in turn makes development difficult and implementations buggy. This hinders adoption in the long run.

My issue with not specifying it is that there might be two implementations
who both have a SOAP-based interface but bind it differently. That leads to
a bickering game, where no one benefits - which is a treat to adoption

This sounds more like you agree with what I just said... So, I'm pretty sure I don't understand your point.

jeff


- Michael

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Freek Dijkstra <Freek.Dijkstra@sara.nl> wrote:
Jason wrote:

> Specifying details regarding a specific implementation of an NMC-
> capable
> framework (like perfSONAR or something completely different) does not
> seem correct to me.  I still believe that we do not want to box
> ourselves in by saying "use SOAP over HTTP because that's what the
> first
> generation used".  The strength of this work should lie in the
> specification and meaning of the XML

I agree with your second statement. However, I also believe that our
aim is to define a standard so that different implementations can work
together. If implementation A uses SOAP based webservices and
implementation B uses RESTful webservices they do not operate. So I
think it should be specified, preferably in a different (short)
document. Otherwise you may just as well argue that "you do not need
to specify the XML syntax, just because that's what the first
generation uses"

Regards,
Freek


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