January 2005 - jsdl-wg - lists.ogf.org

DataStaging revision
by Andreas Savva 31 Jan '05

31 Jan '05

Hi, I've done a revision of the DataStaging section (attached) and added some simple examples. (The changes are relative to 0.6.) If this is the sort of thing we are after I'll ask Darren to merge it in. This revision relates to the following actions from last week's minutes: > 1) Place an example in the Spec for directory delimiting > CF: From point 2 in last weeks minutes > (Andreas) > 2. How would you suggest to specify a logical file name: using > predefined syntax or using a special > attribute in the FileName element? Can a whole directory be specified > as well? > Group> You can specify either one. > (Action Item) We need to show an example of that in the spec. Only '/' > can be used as a delimiter for > directories and files in the filepath. and > 2) More exaples for File staging - we have some of these on GridForge, > they need to be merged in. > (Andreas, Steve) And I also made this change. We can discuss it again today (for the 3rd time) if necessary. > 3) Add to spec that overwrite is a commonly used value for CreationFlag > CF: From point 4 in last weeks minutes -- Andreas Savva Fujitsu Laboratories Ltd

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Re: [jsdl-wg] Re: JSDL?
by Chee-Kian Koh 26 Jan '05

26 Jan '05

Donal, On a similar note, what is the current status of JSDL? Roughly when can we expect the final release to be ready? Sorry, I've not been following closely the mailing list. Thanks. ----------------------------------------- Melvin Koh Chee Kian Grid Research Engineer Asia Pacific Science & Technology Center Sun Microsystems Inc. Website: http://apstc.sun.com.sg/ ----------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donal K. Fellows" <donal.k.fellows(a)manchester.ac.uk> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:07 pm Subject: [jsdl-wg] Re: JSDL? > Chin Chee-Kai wrote: > > I was browsing around for GGF13 when I chanced upon JSDL > > archived discussions on JSDL. You appear to be answering > > some of the questions so I thought I could write to you > > for my perhaps overly-simplistic question: > > > > What is JSDL? Is it some kind of Job Service Description > > Language? The team appears to be designing a kind of > > resource description XSD schema. > > JSDL stands for Job Submission Description Language, and it's > purpose is > to describe simple job descriptions. By simple, I mean a single > invocation of some program (or a webservice or an SQL lookup or > whateverelse you want to do with extensibility), with possibly some > files staged > in beforehand and staged out afterwards. > > We are aware that it is an incomplete solution to the general > problem of > job and workflow running on the grid. This because we envisage other > languages that mix into JSDL or wrap around JSDL to provide these > extended sets of functionality; we're trying to keep the focus of JSDL > itself small so that we can achieve a defined task in as short a > time as > possible. This is covered in the specification (see Figure 2) > though it > needs some more explanatory text. > > > Could you give some pointers on JSDL, latest alpha/beta/full > > versions of XSDs available, or any info to me please? > > The documents at https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/jsdl-wg/docman/ > are a out of date, but not very far out of date. There are aspects of > the document though that may change before we do a final release. To > understand these, you'll probably need to attend the teleconference. > Contact details for that are sent out on the JSDL mailing list (which > this message is cc'ed to) and can be looked up in the archive of > the > mailing list on the JSDL website. > http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/jsdl-wg/threads.html > > Donal. > >

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JSDL: Help with Minutes
by Ali Anjomshoaa 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Can someone please print off the pdf minutes from today. I can't seem to do this, again! Cheers, Ali -- ---------------------------------------------------- |epcc| - Ali Anjomshoaa EPCC, University of Edinburgh James Clerk Maxwell Building Mayfield Road E-mail: ali(a)epcc.ed.ac.uk Edinburgh EH9 3JZ Phone: + 44 (0) 131 651 3388 United Kingdom Fax: + 44 (0) 131 650 6555 -------------------------------------------------------------

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Meeting Minutes
by Darren Pulsipher 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

<<s36x064rq4w8dh.pdf>> Here are the minutes from January 25, 2005 Darren

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Re: JSDL?
by Donal K. Fellows 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Chin Chee-Kai wrote: > I was browsing around for GGF13 when I chanced upon JSDL > archived discussions on JSDL. You appear to be answering > some of the questions so I thought I could write to you > for my perhaps overly-simplistic question: > > What is JSDL? Is it some kind of Job Service Description > Language? The team appears to be designing a kind of > resource description XSD schema. JSDL stands for Job Submission Description Language, and it's purpose is to describe simple job descriptions. By simple, I mean a single invocation of some program (or a webservice or an SQL lookup or whatever else you want to do with extensibility), with possibly some files staged in beforehand and staged out afterwards. We are aware that it is an incomplete solution to the general problem of job and workflow running on the grid. This because we envisage other languages that mix into JSDL or wrap around JSDL to provide these extended sets of functionality; we're trying to keep the focus of JSDL itself small so that we can achieve a defined task in as short a time as possible. This is covered in the specification (see Figure 2) though it needs some more explanatory text. > Could you give some pointers on JSDL, latest alpha/beta/full > versions of XSDs available, or any info to me please? The documents at https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/jsdl-wg/docman/ are a out of date, but not very far out of date. There are aspects of the document though that may change before we do a final release. To understand these, you'll probably need to attend the teleconference. Contact details for that are sent out on the JSDL mailing list (which this message is cc'ed to) and can be looked up in the archive of the mailing list on the JSDL website. http://www-unix.gridforum.org/mail_archive/jsdl-wg/threads.html Donal.

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JSDL 1/25
by Darren Pulsipher 24 Jan '05

24 Jan '05

When: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 07:00-08:30 (GMT-07:00) Mountain Time (US & Canada). *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* You have been invited to a Microsoft Office Live Meeting. At the time of the meeting, click on the following link to attend: http://www.placeware.com/rm/cadence/attend?id=JSDL125&pw=629922 Meeting Title: JSDL 1/25 Audio Information: x3000 Passcode 6447 If you cannot click the meeting link above, or it does not work, please do the following: Browse to: http://www.placeware.com/rm/cadence/attend Type your name Type the Meeting ID as: JSDL125 Type the Password as: 629922 _________________________ Dial In Numbers Phone Numbers: Belgium - 0800-7053 Bezeq - 1-800-940-1786 France - 0800-903109 Germany - 0800-1815765 Hong Kong - 800-968932 Italy - 800874509 Japan - 00531123656 Korea-Tele - 00798-14-800-0512 Netherlands - 0800-0225447 Singapore - 800-1200766 Sweden - 020-7905043 Taiwan - 00801-13-8546 UK - 0800961294 US - 800-933-3594 ______________________________________________________________________________ Darren Pulsipher has invited you to a MeetingPlace e-Conference (Mtg ID 6447) on JAN, 25 2005 at 7:00 AM America/Denver. If provided, use the following password: Call 1 408 894 3000. Enter Mtg ID 6447 when prompted. For more information about this MeetingPlace e-Conference, contact: Darren Pulsipher, 408-895-4537 _______________________________________________________________________________

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Assessing Igor's Proposal
by Donal K. Fellows 21 Jan '05

21 Jan '05

Thanks Igor for your submission. Unfortunately it needed enough consideration that it couldn't be discussed at the telecon on the 18th (all we could really do was acknowledge its existence and tell me to study it further) but here's some impressions from a, well, second run through. :^) [BTW, it seems sometimes below like I think not very well of you, Igor. This isn't true. I'm just coming to the problem from quite a different direction so my perspective is quite at variance. So don't get cross!] By major point in Igor's proposal: > 1) Provide a documented-oriented schema I do not entirely understand what this is in comparison to what we've got. > 2) Provide naming for external reference support I've no objection in principle to this, but I wonder how it interacts with what we use 'id' attributes for internally (which I know is quite unusual in the XML world, especially as they aren't of xsd:ID type). Perhaps they'd be better off called 'name' attributes anyway. :^) Note that the JSDL Profile semantics require non-uniqueness of names. More on this later. > 3) Make everything externally referencable I'm much less happy with this; the various parts of a JSDL (especially if you omit the Profiles) are not generally seperable, and Profiles only really make sense when applied to a particular JobDescription. Given that, it is the JobDescription that is of most interest as far as I can see. However that's a singleton in a JSDL document, so I'm not sure how useful it is to be able to refer to it independently of the document. None of this prevents someone from defining their own language which includes elements from JSDL. :^) Note that I suspect that what I've just said is fairly likely to be controversial. If anyone has a different opinion, please speak up! (The throwaway comments about a CIM XML schema amused me. CIM really isn't organized in a way to make such tasks easy.) > 4) Rearrange the term structure I'm not keen on rearranging the structure so that Resource, Application, User and DataStaging elements appear outside JobDescription and Profile elements. But grouping the various subtypes of Application contents together into their own namespaces seems much more reasonable. I'm not sure how much is going to be shared (and hence in the master namespace) at this stage... Given all that, even the outline of structural changes you propose feels semantically "violent" to us as it potentially denudes elements of their basic context. :^) 5) The conclusion Some of the points made in that conclusion are somewhat of a red-rag to a bull. Given that we already have a document structure and rules (and reasons for that structure and its associated rules) it feels more than a touch condescending. OK, back to Profiles. Profiles are groups of restrictions, alternatives and clarifications for aspects of a Job (e.g. so you can describe how to run it on both SMP machines and clusters) and they don't specify the whole of a job. In theory, you could keep them in a separate document from the JobDescription element I suppose, but I can't see why because there is no reason at all to suppose that any Profile would be applicable to multiple jobs. There is absolutely no reason to be able to name separate components of a Profile; the names are there for a separate reason. The Fundamental Model of JSDL Profile Processing: When applying a Profile to a JobDescription, the matching is done first by type of component element of the profile and then by name/id of the element. This allows for both replacement of elements and adding to lists of elements, both behaviours that are useful. (I've probably messed up the description here). When a Profile is applied, it must always be applied in its entirety though an accepting JSDL processing agent always has a free pick of what profile (from those supplied) to apply. (By contrast, expanding JPAs add profiles, so allowing software agents like resource brokers or superschedulers to apply domain-specific knowledge to a job instead of requiring primary JSDL authors to understand the entire state of the system.) The end-point of such processing is a profile-free document that is consumed by something like a batch queue and which is taken as directions to execute a particular job. Does anyone else have anything to add? Please? :^) And have I missed anything significant or read too much into what was there? Donal.

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[Fwd: [cddlm] API issue: JSDL support]
by Andreas Savva 21 Jan '05

21 Jan '05

FYI. (For those not on the cddlm list.)

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Updated Limit Specification
by Donal K. Fellows 19 Jan '05

19 Jan '05

Here (as I promised in the last telecon) is the updated limit specification (it's a replacement for section 5.7.2 of the spec). It tightens up the meaning of what limits should be (it gives pretty strong statement about how to impose them!) and adds two examples too. One point of note about limits is that processes usually just get sent a signal or get an error out of a system call when they are exceeded. This gives the application a chance to modify its behaviour or clean up after itself, and is distinct from having a job managing engine decide that a process has taken too long and blowing the process out of the water with a SIGKILL... :^) Donal.

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meeting minutes
by Donal K. Fellows 18 Jan '05

18 Jan '05

Meeting minutes from 18 Jan 2005

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