Dependencies among Application Environments
Dear all, I got a new use case for the Application Environment from Tibor Kalman (working on InstantGrid). He would like to be able to discover if an Application Environment depends on other Application Environments in order to be used. Let's say that in a ComputingService, you have three installed application environments (which LocalID are AE1, AE2 and AE3). It could happen that a user wants to use AE1 for its job, but this will imply that AE1 has to use AE2 and AE3. The scheduler should be able to discover this in order to correctly submit the job. The dependency can be captured by referring to the LocalID of the application on which another application depends on. The questions are: 1. is there anybody else who has this requirement? 2. how could we model this in GLUE? option a. add directed association from Application Environment to Application Environment which with label "Depends On" option b. add multi-value Dependency attribute to Application Environment class (basically an implementation of the association in option a.) option c. suggests usage of auxiliary entities Please, send your comments on this issue. Cheers, Sergio -- Sergio Andreozzi INFN-CNAF, Tel: +39 051 609 2860 Viale Berti Pichat, 6/2 Fax: +39 051 609 2746 40126 Bologna (Italy) Web: http://www.cnaf.infn.it/~andreozzi
I am not sure that this is required as we are advertising environments and not software. If A1 requires software from A2 to be installed, then publishing A1 would mean that A2 would have been installed. In my resource selection I want to use A1. If A2 has not been installed then the application will fail which is an operations issue and the problem of the person managing the software installation. If I need A1 and A2 then I will ask for them both. Laurence Sergio Andreozzi wrote:
Dear all,
I got a new use case for the Application Environment from Tibor Kalman (working on InstantGrid). He would like to be able to discover if an Application Environment depends on other Application Environments in order to be used.
Let's say that in a ComputingService, you have three installed application environments (which LocalID are AE1, AE2 and AE3). It could happen that a user wants to use AE1 for its job, but this will imply that AE1 has to use AE2 and AE3. The scheduler should be able to discover this in order to correctly submit the job.
The dependency can be captured by referring to the LocalID of the application on which another application depends on.
The questions are:
1. is there anybody else who has this requirement?
2. how could we model this in GLUE?
option a. add directed association from Application Environment to Application Environment which with label "Depends On" option b. add multi-value Dependency attribute to Application Environment class (basically an implementation of the association in option a.) option c. suggests usage of auxiliary entities
Please, send your comments on this issue.
Cheers, Sergio
glue-wg-bounces@ogf.org
[mailto:glue-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Sergio Andreozzi said: He would like to be able to discover if an Application Environment depends on other Application Environments in order to be used.
As Laurence says, I don't see why you need to discover it: if you want to use application AE1 you match on AE1, and assume that whatever is needed for that to work will be installed. If this is actually about job preparation then I think we've already discussed that: jobs should discover the details of the local environment once they start running, e.g. from an application setup script (the name of which can be advertised). Stephen
This use case can easily be handled by letting the module (or the necessary setup script for the application) set up the needed environment for the job. I think we can safely assume that all the needed applications will also be installed by the sys admin if he/she wants to get software A1 working. One example I can think of is the BEAST application used by our bioinformatics users. It's an application written in Java and requires that the java module also gets loaded when the beast module is loaded. On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Sergio Andreozzi < sergio.andreozzi@cnaf.infn.it> wrote:
Dear all,
I got a new use case for the Application Environment from Tibor Kalman (working on InstantGrid). He would like to be able to discover if an Application Environment depends on other Application Environments in order to be used.
Let's say that in a ComputingService, you have three installed application environments (which LocalID are AE1, AE2 and AE3). It could happen that a user wants to use AE1 for its job, but this will imply that AE1 has to use AE2 and AE3. The scheduler should be able to discover this in order to correctly submit the job.
The dependency can be captured by referring to the LocalID of the application on which another application depends on.
The questions are:
1. is there anybody else who has this requirement?
2. how could we model this in GLUE?
option a. add directed association from Application Environment to Application Environment which with label "Depends On" option b. add multi-value Dependency attribute to Application Environment class (basically an implementation of the association in option a.) option c. suggests usage of auxiliary entities
Please, send your comments on this issue.
Cheers, Sergio
-- Sergio Andreozzi INFN-CNAF, Tel: +39 051 609 2860 Viale Berti Pichat, 6/2 Fax: +39 051 609 2746 40126 Bologna (Italy) Web: http://www.cnaf.infn.it/~andreozzi<http://www.cnaf.infn.it/%7Eandreozzi>
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Hi Tibor, we have annotated and closed this issue here: http://forge.ogf.org/sf/go/artf6162 It is recommended that the dependency should not be captured in the model; but they should be addressed in different ways, e.g.: 1. the user should be aware about these dependecies and it should express all the needed application environment in the job submission request 2. (SUGGESTED) the script/module which set up the primary application, should be instrumented to load also all the required applications is this satisfying for your use case? Cheers, Sergio Gerson Galang ha scritto:
This use case can easily be handled by letting the module (or the necessary setup script for the application) set up the needed environment for the job. I think we can safely assume that all the needed applications will also be installed by the sys admin if he/she wants to get software A1 working.
One example I can think of is the BEAST application used by our bioinformatics users. It's an application written in Java and requires that the java module also gets loaded when the beast module is loaded.
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Sergio Andreozzi <sergio.andreozzi@cnaf.infn.it <mailto:sergio.andreozzi@cnaf.infn.it>> wrote:
Dear all,
I got a new use case for the Application Environment from Tibor Kalman (working on InstantGrid). He would like to be able to discover if an Application Environment depends on other Application Environments in order to be used.
Let's say that in a ComputingService, you have three installed application environments (which LocalID are AE1, AE2 and AE3). It could happen that a user wants to use AE1 for its job, but this will imply that AE1 has to use AE2 and AE3. The scheduler should be able to discover this in order to correctly submit the job.
The dependency can be captured by referring to the LocalID of the application on which another application depends on.
The questions are:
1. is there anybody else who has this requirement?
2. how could we model this in GLUE?
option a. add directed association from Application Environment to Application Environment which with label "Depends On" option b. add multi-value Dependency attribute to Application Environment class (basically an implementation of the association in option a.) option c. suggests usage of auxiliary entities
Please, send your comments on this issue.
Cheers, Sergio
-- Sergio Andreozzi INFN-CNAF, Tel: +39 051 609 2860 Viale Berti Pichat, 6/2 Fax: +39 051 609 2746 40126 Bologna (Italy) Web: http://www.cnaf.infn.it/~andreozzi <http://www.cnaf.infn.it/%7Eandreozzi>
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-- Sergio Andreozzi INFN-CNAF, Tel: +39 051 609 2860 Viale Berti Pichat, 6/2 Fax: +39 051 609 2746 40126 Bologna (Italy) Web: http://www.cnaf.infn.it/~andreozzi
Hi Sergio, hi All, thank you for forwarding the dependency-issue to the list and thanks to others for their suggestions. We use our own abstract information model to provide information about the grid resources. This model is really simple and has its own weaknesses, but can be used to describe both our hardware and software environments (with dependencies between the software elements). We use this information (now I mean the SW information) to: a; give an overview for the end users about the abstract software components they can use in their grid-workflows (or job submission) b; provide the necessary information for our grid workflow scheduler (which try to find HW-resources with the "real" applications installed) c; give an overview for the administrators about the applications they installed/should install The comments and solutions you suggested are all very useful, thanks a lot. Could you tell me, please, from where your users (who prepare the job submission scripts) and site administrators (who maintain your application environments and prepare the setup scripts) get the necessary SW environment information? Do you have any standard information model for helping them? Although I think it can be a part of the grid monitoring and information model, you could answer me in private mail, if you think it is an off-topic issue. Best regards, Tibor ==================================================================== Tibor Kalman (MSc. in Technical Informatics) E-mail:Tibor.Kalman@gwdg.de|Tel:+49 551/201-1541|Fax:+49 551/201-2150 GWDG|www.gwdg.de|Gesellschaft fuer wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH Goettingen|Am Fassberg 11, D-37077Goettingen|+495512011510|gwdg@gwdg.de| Geschaeftsfuehrer:Prof.Dr.BernhardNeumair| Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender:Prof.Dr.ChristianGriesinger| SitzDerGesellschaft:Goettingen|Registergericht:Goettingen| Handelsregister-Nr.B598 On Friday 14 March 2008 17.30, Sergio Andreozzi wrote:
Hi Tibor,
we have annotated and closed this issue here: http://forge.ogf.org/sf/go/artf6162
It is recommended that the dependency should not be captured in the model; but they should be addressed in different ways, e.g.:
1. the user should be aware about these dependecies and it should express all the needed application environment in the job submission request 2. (SUGGESTED) the script/module which set up the primary application, should be instrumented to load also all the required applications
is this satisfying for your use case?
Cheers, Sergio
Gerson Galang ha scritto:
This use case can easily be handled by letting the module (or the necessary setup script for the application) set up the needed environment for the job. I think we can safely assume that all the needed applications will also be installed by the sys admin if he/she wants to get software A1 working.
One example I can think of is the BEAST application used by our bioinformatics users. It's an application written in Java and requires that the java module also gets loaded when the beast module is loaded.
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Sergio Andreozzi <sergio.andreozzi@cnaf.infn.it <mailto:sergio.andreozzi@cnaf.infn.it>> wrote:
Dear all,
I got a new use case for the Application Environment from Tibor Kalman (working on InstantGrid). He would like to be able to discover if an Application Environment depends on other Application Environments in order to be used.
Let's say that in a ComputingService, you have three installed application environments (which LocalID are AE1, AE2 and AE3). It could happen that a user wants to use AE1 for its job, but this will imply that AE1 has to use AE2 and AE3. The scheduler should be able to discover this in order to correctly submit the job.
The dependency can be captured by referring to the LocalID of the application on which another application depends on.
The questions are:
1. is there anybody else who has this requirement?
2. how could we model this in GLUE?
option a. add directed association from Application Environment to Application Environment which with label "Depends On" option b. add multi-value Dependency attribute to Application Environment class (basically an implementation of the association in option a.) option c. suggests usage of auxiliary entities
Please, send your comments on this issue.
Cheers, Sergio
-- Sergio Andreozzi INFN-CNAF, Tel: +39 051 609 2860 Viale Berti Pichat, 6/2 Fax: +39 051 609 2746 40126 Bologna (Italy) Web: http://www.cnaf.infn.it/~andreozzi <http://www.cnaf.infn.it/%7Eandreozzi>
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participants (5)
-
Burke, S (Stephen) -
Gerson Galang -
Laurence Field -
Sergio Andreozzi -
Tibor Kalman