OGF DFDL: What Other Materials needed for Updated submission of DFDL to ISO
Alan, When DFDL was first submitted as a PAS standard to ISO, besides the OGF DFDL document itself, I believe there was additional material also that was part of making up the overall submission package. I'm a bit unclear on what materials are part of OGF being accepted as a PAS submitter, and where that material ends, versus which materials accompanied the specific PAS submission of DFDL. I.e., which materials would also need to be updated if a revised DFDL version were submitted. Can you advise on what these additional documents would be to make up a complete submission "package"? An update to DFDL is quite possibly in the works, not imminently, but in a year or so, but I am retiring at the end of 2025 so will be less active going forward. I want to set the stage on what all is involved in creating an updated DFDL spec., beyond just the spec itself, for those still working on it. Thank you for any info Mike Beckerle Apache Daffodil PMC | daffodil.apache.org OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | www.ogf.org/ogf/doku.php/standards/dfdl/dfdl Owl Cyber Defense | www.owlcyberdefense.com
Good morning Mike, Thanks for the question. Let us look into this and get back to you about the process for updates. As I recall, more interactivity with the relevant ISO working group is expected for ongoing updates compared to the initial submission. Alan On Nov 11, 2025, at 6:53 AM, Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle@apache.org> wrote: This email originated outside TTU. Please exercise caution<https://askit.ttu.edu/phishing>! Alan, When DFDL was first submitted as a PAS standard to ISO, besides the OGF DFDL document itself, I believe there was additional material also that was part of making up the overall submission package. I'm a bit unclear on what materials are part of OGF being accepted as a PAS submitter, and where that material ends, versus which materials accompanied the specific PAS submission of DFDL. I.e., which materials would also need to be updated if a revised DFDL version were submitted. Can you advise on what these additional documents would be to make up a complete submission "package"? An update to DFDL is quite possibly in the works, not imminently, but in a year or so, but I am retiring at the end of 2025 so will be less active going forward. I want to set the stage on what all is involved in creating an updated DFDL spec., beyond just the spec itself, for those still working on it. Thank you for any info Mike Beckerle Apache Daffodil PMC | daffodil.apache.org<http://daffodil.apache.org/> OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | www.ogf.org/ogf/doku.php/standards/dfdl/dfdl<http://www.ogf.org/ogf/doku.php/standards/dfdl/dfdl> Owl Cyber Defense | www.owlcyberdefense.com<http://www.owlcyberdefense.com/> -- dfdl-wg mailing list -- dfdl-wg@lists.ogf.org To unsubscribe send an email to dfdl-wg-leave@lists.ogf.org %(web_page_url)slistinfo/%(_internal_name)s
Hi Mike, Just an update on our process. As you know, as per https://ogf.org/documents/GFD.152.pdf we can publish any errata as needed with a suitable annotation and header update but without a document number update, if the changes fall under the categories mentioned in section 8 of that document. As it says there, "This errata process is not intended to be a mechanism for obsoleting prior versions of a document. If substantial updates are needed, a new document should be created and brought through the complete editorial review process." The process is normally supervised bye the OGF Editor. Due to the recent untimely passing of Greg Newby, which we all deeply mourn, the Editor position will need to be filled by someone else; meanwhile the GFSG can supervise this process. The quickest thing to do would be to select a path for the DFDL update on the OGF side and get started producing this. We are up for renewal on our OGF ISO PAS status. I don't anticipate any difficulties. The application is out for JTC 1 member ballot, which closes 12/23/2025. The document you found and linked on the DFDL GitHub, https://jtc1info.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/SD-9-Guide-to-the-Transposit... is the right one, so please let me know any thoughts you may have after reading through that as well. Let us know of any assistance you need or questions we can help resolve thorough our ISO contacts as you proceed in this process. Thanks, Alan Sill, Ph.D Managing Director, High Performance Computing Center Adjunct Professor of Physics and Astronomy Texas Tech University Drane 159, MS 4-1167 http://www.hpcc.ttu.edu Co-Director, NSF Center for Cloud and Autonomic Computing https://nsfcac.org President, Open Grid Forum https://www.ogf.org e-mail: Alan.Sill@ttu.edu ph. 806-834-5940 On Nov 11, 2025, at 7:18 AM, Sill, Alan <alan.sill@ttu.edu> wrote: Good morning Mike, Thanks for the question. Let us look into this and get back to you about the process for updates. As I recall, more interactivity with the relevant ISO working group is expected for ongoing updates compared to the initial submission. Alan On Nov 11, 2025, at 6:53 AM, Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle@apache.org> wrote: This email originated outside TTU. Please exercise caution<https://askit.ttu.edu/phishing>! Alan, When DFDL was first submitted as a PAS standard to ISO, besides the OGF DFDL document itself, I believe there was additional material also that was part of making up the overall submission package. I'm a bit unclear on what materials are part of OGF being accepted as a PAS submitter, and where that material ends, versus which materials accompanied the specific PAS submission of DFDL. I.e., which materials would also need to be updated if a revised DFDL version were submitted. Can you advise on what these additional documents would be to make up a complete submission "package"? An update to DFDL is quite possibly in the works, not imminently, but in a year or so, but I am retiring at the end of 2025 so will be less active going forward. I want to set the stage on what all is involved in creating an updated DFDL spec., beyond just the spec itself, for those still working on it. Thank you for any info Mike Beckerle Apache Daffodil PMC | daffodil.apache.org<http://daffodil.apache.org/> OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | www.ogf.org/ogf/doku.php/standards/dfdl/dfdl<http://www.ogf.org/ogf/doku.php/standards/dfdl/dfdl> Owl Cyber Defense | www.owlcyberdefense.com<http://www.owlcyberdefense.com/> -- dfdl-wg mailing list -- dfdl-wg@lists.ogf.org To unsubscribe send an email to dfdl-wg-leave@lists.ogf.org %(web_page_url)slistinfo/%(_internal_name)s
Thanks Alan, I can add these thoughts to this discussion: * An updated PAS submission of DFDL is considered a new ISO doc. There is no provision for an update with a changes-log page or like that. OGF has that, but ISO PAS doesn't. This works out fine for us. We create an updated OGF GFD.240 with errata fixed, change log page added. Having done that we can create the ISO-formatted version thereof without an errata/change log page, and submit it for ISO approval. The OGF version change log is exactly the additional documentation they need to understand the delta beyond the formatting changes. * I also found this: https://github.com/OpenGridForum/ISO-PAS-process/blob/main/DFDL-ISO-Process/... An update to this document would clearly be required as part of an ISO DFDL update submission, but is not a lot of work. This would explain the purpose of the update which is ISO formatting, and while we're at it typo/format corrections and 6 (roughly) errata corrections. There are two things to finesse here: That document refers to WG3 and WG5 within SC38 of JTC1 as places we intend to engage at ISO JTC1. We've not engaged with those workgroups. A few emails over a year ago with the head of SC38 is all we've done. That document also refers to a goal of machine-readable specification (in XML) with spec doc generated from it. We've not realized this goal, so this machine-readable spec source would remain a goal for the future. Next step is to create the new GFD.240 with updates. This is quite close. There are two open tickets for creating a clickable property index from an alphabetical list of DFDL properties to their spec locations, and to fix numerous cross references in the document that MS-Word does not automatically create hyperlinks for in the PDF or HTML versions of the document. These are mostly clerical MS-Word driving work. All errata are in and all known minor/typo corrections. Once we have these last things in hand we can update ISO-PAS-Explanatory-Report-For-OGF-DFDL.md <https://github.com/OpenGridForum/ISO-PAS-process/blob/main/DFDL-ISO-Process/ISO-PAS-Explanatory-Report-For-OGF-DFDL.md> and prepare an ISO submission for the update. On Tue, Nov 11, 2025 at 8:18 AM Sill, Alan <Alan.Sill@ttu.edu> wrote:
Good morning Mike,
Thanks for the question. Let us look into this and get back to you about the process for updates. As I recall, more interactivity with the relevant ISO working group is expected for ongoing updates compared to the initial submission.
Alan
On Nov 11, 2025, at 6:53 AM, Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle@apache.org> wrote:
This email originated outside TTU. Please exercise caution <https://askit.ttu.edu/phishing>!
Alan,
When DFDL was first submitted as a PAS standard to ISO, besides the OGF DFDL document itself, I believe there was additional material also that was part of making up the overall submission package.
I'm a bit unclear on what materials are part of OGF being accepted as a PAS submitter, and where that material ends, versus which materials accompanied the specific PAS submission of DFDL. I.e., which materials would also need to be updated if a revised DFDL version were submitted.
Can you advise on what these additional documents would be to make up a complete submission "package"?
An update to DFDL is quite possibly in the works, not imminently, but in a year or so, but I am retiring at the end of 2025 so will be less active going forward. I want to set the stage on what all is involved in creating an updated DFDL spec., beyond just the spec itself, for those still working on it.
Thank you for any info
Mike Beckerle Apache Daffodil PMC | daffodil.apache.org OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | www.ogf.org/ogf/doku.php/standards/dfdl/dfdl Owl Cyber Defense | www.owlcyberdefense.com
-- dfdl-wg mailing list -- dfdl-wg@lists.ogf.org To unsubscribe send an email to dfdl-wg-leave@lists.ogf.org %(web_page_url)slistinfo/%(_internal_name)s
On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 12:00 PM Sill, Alan <Alan.Sill@ttu.edu> wrote:
Hi Mike,
Just an update on our process. As you know, as per https://ogf.org/documents/GFD.152.pdf we can publish any errata as needed with a suitable annotation and header update but without a document number update, if the changes fall under the categories mentioned in section 8 of that document. As it says there, "This errata process is not intended to be a mechanism for obsoleting prior versions of a document. If substantial updates are needed, a new document should be created and brought through the complete editorial review process." The process is normally supervised bye the OGF Editor. Due to the recent untimely passing of Greg Newby, which we all deeply mourn, the Editor position will need to be filled by someone else; meanwhile the GFSG can supervise this process. The quickest thing to do would be to select a path for the DFDL update on the OGF side and get started producing this.
We are up for renewal on our OGF ISO PAS status. I don't anticipate any difficulties. The application is out for JTC 1 member ballot, which closes 12/23/2025. The document you found and linked on the DFDL GitHub, https://jtc1info.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/SD-9-Guide-to-the-Transposit... is the right one, so please let me know any thoughts you may have after reading through that as well. Let us know of any assistance you need or questions we can help resolve thorough our ISO contacts as you proceed in this process.
Thanks,
Alan Sill, Ph.D Managing Director, High Performance Computing Center Adjunct Professor of Physics and Astronomy Texas Tech University Drane 159, MS 4-1167 http://www.hpcc.ttu.edu
Co-Director, NSF Center for Cloud and Autonomic Computing https://nsfcac.org
President, Open Grid Forum https://www.ogf.org
e-mail: Alan.Sill@ttu.edu ph. 806-834-5940
On Nov 11, 2025, at 7:18 AM, Sill, Alan <alan.sill@ttu.edu> wrote:
Good morning Mike,
Thanks for the question. Let us look into this and get back to you about the process for updates. As I recall, more interactivity with the relevant ISO working group is expected for ongoing updates compared to the initial submission.
Alan
On Nov 11, 2025, at 6:53 AM, Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle@apache.org> wrote:
This email originated outside TTU. Please exercise caution <https://askit.ttu.edu/phishing>!
Alan,
When DFDL was first submitted as a PAS standard to ISO, besides the OGF DFDL document itself, I believe there was additional material also that was part of making up the overall submission package.
I'm a bit unclear on what materials are part of OGF being accepted as a PAS submitter, and where that material ends, versus which materials accompanied the specific PAS submission of DFDL. I.e., which materials would also need to be updated if a revised DFDL version were submitted.
Can you advise on what these additional documents would be to make up a complete submission "package"?
An update to DFDL is quite possibly in the works, not imminently, but in a year or so, but I am retiring at the end of 2025 so will be less active going forward. I want to set the stage on what all is involved in creating an updated DFDL spec., beyond just the spec itself, for those still working on it.
Thank you for any info
Mike Beckerle Apache Daffodil PMC | daffodil.apache.org OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | www.ogf.org/ogf/doku.php/standards/dfdl/dfdl Owl Cyber Defense | www.owlcyberdefense.com
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Sill, Alan