The error message is because you don't make forward progress through the data with potentially unbounded occurrences.

I think you just said, “MBTK prevents an infinite loop.” That makes sense.

If there are delimiters then model those and you might not get the error.

I think you just said, “To let MBTK know when it should stop checking, you need a terminator of some sort.” That also makes sense. So I added a terminator (%NL;) here: [cid:image001.png@01CE19A9.EAD10F60] Good news: That fixed the problem, so long as my input is “abc”. Bad news: This breaks if the input is any other legal value, such as “abbc” or “cba” or “b”. The problem for all of these is that my dear friend, checkConstraints, is not implemented yet, thus I can’t prevent the parser from slurping up the wrong character. I don’t know how anyone can build a non-trivial DFDL schema that involves any sort of choice without this method; I swear, it must be the single most important thing you guys have created for DFDL. Until checkConstraints is implemented, I’m not really able to test this schema with MBTK. Thanks so much for your help answering my questions, Steve! From: Steve Hanson [mailto:smh@uk.ibm.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:46 PM To: Garriss Jr., James P. Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org; dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] unordered sequence with constrained occurrences James, The error message is because you don't make forward progress through the data with potentially unbounded occurrences. Is this because you are using a cut-down schema? If there are delimiters then model those and you might not get the error. Once you have processed the array you can use asserts to check the count. However IBM DFDL does not implement the count functions yet. Give me a couple of days to look at this more closely. I have a customer visit tomorrow hence the delay. Regards Steve Hanson Architect, Data Format Description Language (DFDL) Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Grouphttp://www.ogf.org/dfdl/ IBM SWG, Hursley, UK smh@uk.ibm.commailto:smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 From: "Garriss Jr., James P." mailto:jgarriss@mitre.org> To: "dfdl-wg@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org" mailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org>, Date: 05/03/2013 16:19 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] unordered sequence with constrained occurrences Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org ________________________________ Hmmm, maybe not. I said:

The unordered sequence can be modeled with a data array

Yet when implemented in MBTK, it throws a fatal error: fatal: CTDP3148E: Infinite loop at offset 3: The DFDL parser cannot process array element 'ABCarray' because maxOccurs is unbounded and the length of the previous occurrence was zero. I think what happens is that on the last pass through the array, it doesn’t find a, b, or c, so it throws a fatal error. So is this a bug in MBTK? Or can DFDL not model an unordered sequence? Or am I just doing it wrong? Here’s a sample DFDL schemas that illustrates the point: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/dfdl-1.0/" xmlns:fmt="http://www.ibm.com/dfdl/GeneralPurposeFormat" xmlns:ibmSchExtn="http://www.ibm.com/schema/extensions" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"> http://www.ibm.com/dfdl/GeneralPurposeFormat" schemaLocation="IBMdefined/GeneralPurposeFormat.xsd" /> xsd:complexType xsd:annotation http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> xsd:complexType xsd:annotation http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> Test with “abc” as sample input. From: Garriss Jr., James P. Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 8:43 AM To: dfdl-wg@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org Subject: unordered sequence with constrained occurrences Suppose text data has 3 constructs: a, b, and c. • a must occur 1 time • b can occur 0 or 1 time • c can occur any number of times, 0 or more These 3 constructs can appear in any order. So these are valid inputs: abc a bcccca But these are not: ccbcc abbc abcabc Can data like this be modeled with DFDL? The unordered sequence can be modeled with a data array, like this: Array (0 to unbounded) Sequence a (0 to 1) b (0 to 1) c (0 to 1) /Sequence /Array But I don’t know how to constrain the total number of occurrences. Appreciate any ideas!-- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU

Suppose I’m modeling IMF headers, many of which can have the exact same form, stuff like: From: john@doe.com To: jane@gmail.com Return-Path: bob@yahoo.com Etc. Remember that these can be in any order, so they are an unordered sequence. The way that we’ve modeled these headers so far, the “From:” and “To:” and so on have been initiators; they aren’t elements. But when I use our workaround for an unordered sequence, which requires discriminators, I am in trouble. Because the thing that discriminates all of these headers is an initiator, not an element. So, it seems to me that I need to change all my headers so that the “From:” and “To:” and such are no longer initiators but elements. Does that sound right? The more I work with this workaround, the more hackish it feels, and the more I think that unordered sequences should be part of DFDL 1.0. Maybe? From: Steve Hanson [mailto:smh@uk.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 4:16 AM To: Garriss Jr., James P. Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org; dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] unordered sequence with constrained occurrences James, The checkConstraints function is just a convenience that saves you having to duplicate constraints in an assert or discriminator. For now, just duplicate the constraint as a discriminator. This works fine as long as you can express the constraint as a DFDL expression, which with your example you can. I've tested your xsd exactly as you supplied below (without the terminator) on my latest MBTK and it parses 'abc' fine. I don't see the infinite loop error. We did have some bugs in that area where the check was being applied too strictly which we fixed. [cid:image001.gif@01CE1A70.87F87730] I then tried with 'cba' which parsed without error, except of course that the values ended up in the wrong elements. So I added discriminators to check that the elements matched their fixed value, and 'cba' then parsed into the correct elements. xsd:annotation http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> dfdl:discriminator{. eq 'b'} [cid:image002.gif@01CE1A70.87F87730] I then tried with more complex strings, such as 'cbabaccba', and they all parsed ok. [cid:image003.gif@01CE1A70.87F87730] To make the infoset more symmetric, with one child per array occurrence, you can use a choice instead of a sequence. [cid:image004.gif@01CE1A70.87F87730] Making that change then results in: [cid:image005.gif@01CE1A70.87F87730] Here's the xsd with discriminators and choices. See if it works with your MBTK. If you are still hitting the infinite loop error then add the %NL; terminator to the array element. This will parse data of the form: c b a b a c c b a Regards Steve Hanson Architect, Data Format Description Language (DFDL) Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Grouphttp://www.ogf.org/dfdl/ IBM SWG, Hursley, UK smh@uk.ibm.commailto:smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 From: "Garriss Jr., James P." mailto:jgarriss@mitre.org> To: "dfdl-wg@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org" mailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org>, Date: 05/03/2013 19:15 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] unordered sequence with constrained occurrences Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org ________________________________

The error message is because you don't make forward progress through the data with potentially unbounded occurrences.

I think you just said, “MBTK prevents an infinite loop.” That makes sense.

If there are delimiters then model those and you might not get the error.

I think you just said, “To let MBTK know when it should stop checking, you need a terminator of some sort.” That also makes sense. So I added a terminator (%NL;) here: [cid:image006.png@01CE1A70.87F87730] Good news: That fixed the problem, so long as my input is “abc”. Bad news: This breaks if the input is any other legal value, such as “abbc” or “cba” or “b”. The problem for all of these is that my dear friend, checkConstraints, is not implemented yet, thus I can’t prevent the parser from slurping up the wrong character. I don’t know how anyone can build a non-trivial DFDL schema that involves any sort of choice without this method; I swear, it must be the single most important thing you guys have created for DFDL. Until checkConstraints is implemented, I’m not really able to test this schema with MBTK. Thanks so much for your help answering my questions, Steve! From: Steve Hanson [mailto:smh@uk.ibm.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:46 PM To: Garriss Jr., James P. Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org; dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] unordered sequence with constrained occurrences James, The error message is because you don't make forward progress through the data with potentially unbounded occurrences. Is this because you are using a cut-down schema? If there are delimiters then model those and you might not get the error. Once you have processed the array you can use asserts to check the count. However IBM DFDL does not implement the count functions yet. Give me a couple of days to look at this more closely. I have a customer visit tomorrow hence the delay. Regards Steve Hanson Architect, Data Format Description Language (DFDL) Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Grouphttp://www.ogf.org/dfdl/ IBM SWG, Hursley, UK smh@uk.ibm.commailto:smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 From: "Garriss Jr., James P." mailto:jgarriss@mitre.org> To: "dfdl-wg@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org" mailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org>, Date: 05/03/2013 16:19 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] unordered sequence with constrained occurrences Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org ________________________________ Hmmm, maybe not. I said:

The unordered sequence can be modeled with a data array

Yet when implemented in MBTK, it throws a fatal error: fatal: CTDP3148E: Infinite loop at offset 3: The DFDL parser cannot process array element 'ABCarray' because maxOccurs is unbounded and the length of the previous occurrence was zero. I think what happens is that on the last pass through the array, it doesn’t find a, b, or c, so it throws a fatal error. So is this a bug in MBTK? Or can DFDL not model an unordered sequence? Or am I just doing it wrong? Here’s a sample DFDL schemas that illustrates the point: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/dfdl-1.0/" xmlns:fmt="http://www.ibm.com/dfdl/GeneralPurposeFormat" xmlns:ibmSchExtn="http://www.ibm.com/schema/extensions" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"> http://www.ibm.com/dfdl/GeneralPurposeFormat" schemaLocation="IBMdefined/GeneralPurposeFormat.xsd" /> xsd:complexType xsd:annotation http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> xsd:complexType xsd:annotation http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> Test with “abc” as sample input. From: Garriss Jr., James P. Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 8:43 AM To: dfdl-wg@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org Subject: unordered sequence with constrained occurrences Suppose text data has 3 constructs: a, b, and c. • a must occur 1 time • b can occur 0 or 1 time • c can occur any number of times, 0 or more These 3 constructs can appear in any order. So these are valid inputs: abc a bcccca But these are not: ccbcc abbc abcabc Can data like this be modeled with DFDL? The unordered sequence can be modeled with a data array, like this: Array (0 to unbounded) Sequence a (0 to 1) b (0 to 1) c (0 to 1) /Sequence /Array But I don’t know how to constrain the total number of occurrences. Appreciate any ideas!-- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU-- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.orgmailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU

James The purpose of a discriminator is to check that the data matches the model at a 'point of uncertainty' such as a choice branch or an optional element or a variable occurence array. If there is no discriminator then any processing error causes the parser to backtrack and try the next thing in the model. If there is a discriminator and it evaluates to false then the parser again backtracks and tries the next thing in the model. If it evaluates to true, then the parser knows for sure it is in the right place in the model - and crucially that any subsequent processing error is a hard error and does not cause backtracking at that point of uncertainty. In the 'abc' example you gave, there are no initiators, so a discriminator must be used that looks at the data content. But if you have an initiator, like IMF headers have, you can use the initiator to do the discrimination. Set property dfdl:initiatedContent 'yes' on the choice itself. This acts just like a discriminator when an initiator matches and will stop backtracking happening. You no longer need the discriminators. xsd:complexType If the %NL; is not always going to be present, and the data content of one element can be terminated by the initiator of the next element, then you need to use lengthKind 'pattern' as Mike showed in his mail. (It wasn't clear to me whether that was the same or different IMF data). Regards Steve Hanson Architect, Data Format Description Language (DFDL) Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group IBM SWG, Hursley, UK smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 From: "Garriss Jr., James P." To: "dfdl-wg@ogf.org" , Date: 06/03/2013 19:05 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] unordered sequence with constrained occurrences Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Suppose I’m modeling IMF headers, many of which can have the exact same form, stuff like: From: john@doe.com To: jane@gmail.com Return-Path: bob@yahoo.com Etc. Remember that these can be in any order, so they are an unordered sequence. The way that we’ve modeled these headers so far, the “From:” and “To:” and so on have been initiators; they aren’t elements. But when I use our workaround for an unordered sequence, which requires discriminators, I am in trouble. Because the thing that discriminates all of these headers is an initiator, not an element. So, it seems to me that I need to change all my headers so that the “From:” and “To:” and such are no longer initiators but elements. Does that sound right? The more I work with this workaround, the more hackish it feels, and the more I think that unordered sequences should be part of DFDL 1.0. Maybe? From: Steve Hanson [mailto:smh@uk.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 4:16 AM To: Garriss Jr., James P. Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org; dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] unordered sequence with constrained occurrences James, The checkConstraints function is just a convenience that saves you having to duplicate constraints in an assert or discriminator. For now, just duplicate the constraint as a discriminator. This works fine as long as you can express the constraint as a DFDL expression, which with your example you can. I've tested your xsd exactly as you supplied below (without the terminator) on my latest MBTK and it parses 'abc' fine. I don't see the infinite loop error. We did have some bugs in that area where the check was being applied too strictly which we fixed. I then tried with 'cba' which parsed without error, except of course that the values ended up in the wrong elements. So I added discriminators to check that the elements matched their fixed value, and 'cba' then parsed into the correct elements. xsd:annotation http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> dfdl:discriminator{. eq 'b'} I then tried with more complex strings, such as 'cbabaccba', and they all parsed ok. To make the infoset more symmetric, with one child per array occurrence, you can use a choice instead of a sequence. Making that change then results in: Here's the xsd with discriminators and choices. See if it works with your MBTK. If you are still hitting the infinite loop error then add the %NL; terminator to the array element. This will parse data of the form: c b a b a c c b a Regards Steve Hanson Architect, Data Format Description Language (DFDL) Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group IBM SWG, Hursley, UK smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 From: "Garriss Jr., James P." To: "dfdl-wg@ogf.org" , Date: 05/03/2013 19:15 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] unordered sequence with constrained occurrences Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org

The error message is because you don't make forward progress through the data with potentially unbounded occurrences.

I think you just said, “MBTK prevents an infinite loop.” That makes sense.

If there are delimiters then model those and you might not get the error.

I think you just said, “To let MBTK know when it should stop checking, you need a terminator of some sort.” That also makes sense. So I added a terminator (%NL;) here: Good news: That fixed the problem, so long as my input is “abc”. Bad news: This breaks if the input is any other legal value, such as “abbc” or “cba” or “b”. The problem for all of these is that my dear friend, checkConstraints, is not implemented yet, thus I can’t prevent the parser from slurping up the wrong character. I don’t know how anyone can build a non-trivial DFDL schema that involves any sort of choice without this method; I swear, it must be the single most important thing you guys have created for DFDL. Until checkConstraints is implemented, I’m not really able to test this schema with MBTK. Thanks so much for your help answering my questions, Steve! From: Steve Hanson [mailto:smh@uk.ibm.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:46 PM To: Garriss Jr., James P. Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org; dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] unordered sequence with constrained occurrences James, The error message is because you don't make forward progress through the data with potentially unbounded occurrences. Is this because you are using a cut-down schema? If there are delimiters then model those and you might not get the error. Once you have processed the array you can use asserts to check the count. However IBM DFDL does not implement the count functions yet. Give me a couple of days to look at this more closely. I have a customer visit tomorrow hence the delay. Regards Steve Hanson Architect, Data Format Description Language (DFDL) Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group IBM SWG, Hursley, UK smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 From: "Garriss Jr., James P." To: "dfdl-wg@ogf.org" , Date: 05/03/2013 16:19 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] unordered sequence with constrained occurrences Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Hmmm, maybe not. I said:

The unordered sequence can be modeled with a data array

Yet when implemented in MBTK, it throws a fatal error: fatal: CTDP3148E: Infinite loop at offset 3: The DFDL parser cannot process array element 'ABCarray' because maxOccurs is unbounded and the length of the previous occurrence was zero. I think what happens is that on the last pass through the array, it doesn’t find a, b, or c, so it throws a fatal error. So is this a bug in MBTK? Or can DFDL not model an unordered sequence? Or am I just doing it wrong? Here’s a sample DFDL schemas that illustrates the point: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/dfdl-1.0/" xmlns:fmt="http://www.ibm.com/dfdl/GeneralPurposeFormat" xmlns:ibmSchExtn="http://www.ibm.com/schema/extensions" xmlns:xsd=" http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"> http://www.ibm.com/dfdl/GeneralPurposeFormat" schemaLocation="IBMdefined/GeneralPurposeFormat.xsd" /> xsd:complexType xsd:annotation http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/ "> xsd:complexType xsd:annotation http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/"> Test with “abc” as sample input. From: Garriss Jr., James P. Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 8:43 AM To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Subject: unordered sequence with constrained occurrences Suppose text data has 3 constructs: a, b, and c. · a must occur 1 time · b can occur 0 or 1 time · c can occur any number of times, 0 or more These 3 constructs can appear in any order. So these are valid inputs: abc a bcccca But these are not: ccbcc abbc abcabc Can data like this be modeled with DFDL? The unordered sequence can be modeled with a data array, like this: Array (0 to unbounded) Sequence a (0 to 1) b (0 to 1) c (0 to 1) /Sequence /Array But I don’t know how to constrain the total number of occurrences. Appreciate any ideas!-- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU