Action 253 - delimiters - misleading phrasing - was: Re: Fw: DL11A #3: (Question)[1](Open)(English)need clarification
There are two issues raised in the email thread started by Oya Argun. Let's look at the second one first since it is quickly addressed. This is just a typographical error "proceed" should be precede. The offending sentence was: On parsing the dfdl:escapeCharacter and dfdl:escapeEscapeCharacter are removed from the data, unless the dfdl:escapeCharacter is preceded or the dfdl:escapeEscapeCharacter does not *proceed* the dfdl:escapeCharacter. I have already made the above correction to the draft-gwdrp-dfdl-v1.0.4-r07.docx draft of the spec. The other issue requires us to reword the text, as the material identified as hard to translate is actually misleading and should be cleaned up. Suggested Erratum: In the description of the dfdl:initiator property, the sentence "The initiator with the longest match is the one that is selected as having been 'found', with length-ties being resolved so that the matching initiator is selected that is first in the order written in the schema." should be dropped. In the description of the dfdl:terminator property, the sentence "The terminator with the longest match is the one that is selected as having been 'found', with length-ties being resolved so that the matching terminator is selected that is first in the order written in the schema." should be dropped. Add this sentence: "This property can be used to determine the length of an element as described in Section 12.3.2 dfdl:lengthKind 'delimited'." In the description of the dfdl:separator property, the sentence "The separator with the longest match is the one that is selected as having been 'found', with length-ties being resolved so that the matching separator is selected that is first in the order written in the schema." should be dropped. Add this sentence: "This property can be used to determine the length of an element as described in Section 12.3.2 dfdl:lengthKind 'delimited'." It is a separate issue whether we consider the description of how lengthKind delimited works in 12.3.2 to be adequate or not, and that is out of scope for this particular action item/erratum. The above suggested erratum text gets rid of the misleading language from the descriptions of the properties. Let's discuss whether improvement to 12.3.2 is required on the next DFDL WG call. ...mikeb Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | Tresys Technology | www.tresys.com Please note: Contributions to the DFDL Workgroup's email discussions are subject to the OGF Intellectual Property Policy<http://www.ogf.org/About/abt_policies.php> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Steve Hanson <smh@uk.ibm.com> wrote:
Regards
Steve Hanson Architect, *IBM DFDL*<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/se-dfdl/index.html> Co-Chair, *OGF DFDL Working Group* <http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/> IBM SWG, Hursley, UK *smh@uk.ibm.com* <smh@uk.ibm.com> tel:+44-1962-815848 ----- Forwarded by Steve Hanson/UK/IBM on 11/04/2014 15:36 -----
From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Kevin Safford/UK/IBM@IBMGB, Cc: Alex Wood1/UK/IBM@IBMGB, "Mike Beckerle" <mbeckerle@tresys.com> Date: 06/03/2014 16:32 Subject: Re: Fw: DL11A #3: (Question)[1](Open)(English)need clarification ------------------------------
Kevin
1) When the dfdl:initiator property is a list of values, and the data matches more than one value, then the longest value is the one selected. Example: data is aaa12345, dfdl:initiator is "aa aaa", then aaa is the match as it is longest. However if the data matches more than one value and the values have the same length, then the one that is declared earlier in the list is selected.
I have to say that I am struggling to come up with an example where it actually makes a material difference, because if it matches multiple of the same length, then surely they must be equivalent anyway? Maybe white space has an effect here. Mike Beckerle crafted these words, perhaps he can give an example. (Note that same words occur dfdl:terminator and dfdl:separator).
2) Agree, and have added to the Minor Editorial public comment on Redmine.
Regards
Steve Hanson Architect, *IBM DFDL*<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/se-dfdl/index.html> Co-Chair, *OGF DFDL Working Group* <http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/> IBM SWG, Hursley, UK *smh@uk.ibm.com* <smh@uk.ibm.com> tel:+44-1962-815848
From: Kevin Safford/UK/IBM To: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM@IBMGB, Alex Wood1/UK/IBM@IBMGB, Date: 06/03/2014 14:40 Subject: Fw: DL11A #3: (Question)[1](Open)(English)need clarification ------------------------------
Hi
I need some input from you chaps on this translation query.
Could you suggest a rephrase, or explanation of point 1?
Point 2 I assume is a typo for precede. It's present in the spec. Can you confirm?
Regards
*Kevin Safford* Information Developer I work Mondays to Thursdays only. ------------------------------ *Phone:* 44-1962-819217 * E-mail:* *SAFFORDS@uk.ibm.com* <SAFFORDS@uk.ibm.com> * My web site: **sites.google.com/site/kevinsafford*<https://sites.google.com/site/kevinsafford> * Find me on:* [image: Twitter: https://twitter.com/KevSaff]<https://twitter.com/KevSaff>
Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom
----- Forwarded by Kevin Safford/UK/IBM on 06/03/2014 14:37 -----
From: tctadm@cn.ibm.com To: undisclosed-recipients:;, Date: 06/03/2014 10:01 Subject: DL11A #3: (Question)[1](Open)(English)need clarification ------------------------------
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*https://www.ibm.com/software/globalization/translationcommunications/BaseServlet.wss?taskName=ReadArticlePre&prrefnum=-1&arrefnum=7701628499*<https://www.ibm.com/software/globalization/translationcommunications/BaseServlet.wss?taskName=ReadArticlePre&prrefnum=-1&arrefnum=7701628499> *Project code* DL11A *Project admin* terrychu *Article subject* need clarification *Article type* Question *Category name* English/Source files - PII,DL11AAAP002_Tooling *Testcase/Filename/IU * plugins/com.ibm.dfdl.help/f1/dfdlPorperties.xml *Current status* Open *Priority level * 1 *Stop-Ship* English:n/a *Originator * English *Opened* by oya.argun@superonline.com / Trans. Vendor, Turkey / English (oyargun) 2014-03-06 10:00:25 Hello,
1)The initiator with the longest match is the one that is selected as having been 'found', with length-ties being resolved so that the matching initiator is selected that is first in the order written in the schema.
I am afraid this string is very complex, please re-phrase it if possible or provide a comprehensive explanation.
2) In the following string I could not quite understand this phrase: 'or the dfdl:escapeEscapeCharacter does not proceed the dfdl:escapeCharacter'. What is meant by 'proceed' here?"
On parsing the dfdl:escapeCharacter and dfdl:escapeEscapeCharacter are removed from the data, unless the dfdl:escapeCharacter is preceded or the dfdl:escapeEscapeCharacter does not proceed the dfdl:escapeCharacter.
Thanks in advance Oya
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Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
Mike Taking initiator as an example, your change results in: "When parsing, the list of values is processed in a greedy manner, meaning it takes all the initiators, that is, each of the string literals in the white space separated list, and matches them each against the data. In each case the longest possible match is found. Once a matching initiator is found, no other matches will be subsequently attempted (ie, there is no backtracking)." I prefer a slight variation, which deletes the sentence before the one you delete, but retains the first part of the sentence you delete: "When parsing, the list of values is processed in a greedy manner, meaning it takes all the initiators, that is, each of the string literals in the white space separated list, and matches them each against the data. The initiator with the longest match is the one that is selected as 'found'. Once a matching initiator is found, no other matches will be subsequently attempted (ie, there is no backtracking)." Regards Steve Hanson Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group IBM SWG, Hursley, UK smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> To: "dfdl-wg@ogf.org" <dfdl-wg@ogf.org>, Date: 14/04/2014 14:49 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Action 253 - delimiters - misleading phrasing - was: Re: Fw: DL11A #3: (Question)[1](Open)(English)need clarification Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org There are two issues raised in the email thread started by Oya Argun. Let's look at the second one first since it is quickly addressed. This is just a typographical error "proceed" should be precede. The offending sentence was: On parsing the dfdl:escapeCharacter and dfdl:escapeEscapeCharacter are removed from the data, unless the dfdl:escapeCharacter is preceded or the dfdl:escapeEscapeCharacter does not proceed the dfdl:escapeCharacter. I have already made the above correction to the draft-gwdrp-dfdl-v1.0.4-r07.docx draft of the spec. The other issue requires us to reword the text, as the material identified as hard to translate is actually misleading and should be cleaned up. Suggested Erratum: In the description of the dfdl:initiator property, the sentence "The initiator with the longest match is the one that is selected as having been 'found', with length-ties being resolved so that the matching initiator is selected that is first in the order written in the schema." should be dropped. In the description of the dfdl:terminator property, the sentence "The terminator with the longest match is the one that is selected as having been 'found', with length-ties being resolved so that the matching terminator is selected that is first in the order written in the schema." should be dropped. Add this sentence: "This property can be used to determine the length of an element as described in Section 12.3.2 dfdl:lengthKind 'delimited'." In the description of the dfdl:separator property, the sentence "The separator with the longest match is the one that is selected as having been 'found', with length-ties being resolved so that the matching separator is selected that is first in the order written in the schema." should be dropped. Add this sentence: "This property can be used to determine the length of an element as described in Section 12.3.2 dfdl:lengthKind 'delimited'." It is a separate issue whether we consider the description of how lengthKind delimited works in 12.3.2 to be adequate or not, and that is out of scope for this particular action item/erratum. The above suggested erratum text gets rid of the misleading language from the descriptions of the properties. Let's discuss whether improvement to 12.3.2 is required on the next DFDL WG call. ...mikeb Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | Tresys Technology | www.tresys.com Please note: Contributions to the DFDL Workgroup's email discussions are subject to the OGF Intellectual Property Policy On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Steve Hanson <smh@uk.ibm.com> wrote: Regards Steve Hanson Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group IBM SWG, Hursley, UK smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 ----- Forwarded by Steve Hanson/UK/IBM on 11/04/2014 15:36 ----- From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Kevin Safford/UK/IBM@IBMGB, Cc: Alex Wood1/UK/IBM@IBMGB, "Mike Beckerle" <mbeckerle@tresys.com> Date: 06/03/2014 16:32 Subject: Re: Fw: DL11A #3: (Question)[1](Open)(English)need clarification Kevin 1) When the dfdl:initiator property is a list of values, and the data matches more than one value, then the longest value is the one selected. Example: data is aaa12345, dfdl:initiator is "aa aaa", then aaa is the match as it is longest. However if the data matches more than one value and the values have the same length, then the one that is declared earlier in the list is selected. I have to say that I am struggling to come up with an example where it actually makes a material difference, because if it matches multiple of the same length, then surely they must be equivalent anyway? Maybe white space has an effect here. Mike Beckerle crafted these words, perhaps he can give an example. (Note that same words occur dfdl:terminator and dfdl:separator). 2) Agree, and have added to the Minor Editorial public comment on Redmine. Regards Steve Hanson Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group IBM SWG, Hursley, UK smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 From: Kevin Safford/UK/IBM To: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM@IBMGB, Alex Wood1/UK/IBM@IBMGB, Date: 06/03/2014 14:40 Subject: Fw: DL11A #3: (Question)[1](Open)(English)need clarification Hi I need some input from you chaps on this translation query. Could you suggest a rephrase, or explanation of point 1? Point 2 I assume is a typo for precede. It's present in the spec. Can you confirm? Regards Kevin Safford Information Developer I work Mondays to Thursdays only. Phone: 44-1962-819217 E-mail: SAFFORDS@uk.ibm.com My web site: sites.google.com/site/kevinsafford Find me on: Hursley Park Hursley, SO21 2JN United Kingdom ----- Forwarded by Kevin Safford/UK/IBM on 06/03/2014 14:37 ----- From: tctadm@cn.ibm.com To: undisclosed-recipients:;, Date: 06/03/2014 10:01 Subject: DL11A #3: (Question)[1](Open)(English)need clarification *** This mail is sent by TCT system automatically. Please do NOT reply to this ID. *** Click here to read the article and response: https://www.ibm.com/software/globalization/translationcommunications/BaseServlet.wss?taskName=ReadArticlePre&prrefnum=-1&arrefnum=7701628499 Project code DL11A Project admin terrychu Article subject need clarification Article type Question Category name English/Source files - PII,DL11AAAP002_Tooling Testcase/Filename/IU plugins/com.ibm.dfdl.help/f1/dfdlPorperties.xml Current status Open Priority level 1 Stop-Ship English:n/a Originator English Opened by oya.argun@superonline.com / Trans. Vendor, Turkey / English (oyargun) 2014-03-06 10:00:25 Hello, 1)The initiator with the longest match is the one that is selected as having been 'found', with length-ties being resolved so that the matching initiator is selected that is first in the order written in the schema. I am afraid this string is very complex, please re-phrase it if possible or provide a comprehensive explanation. 2) In the following string I could not quite understand this phrase: 'or the dfdl:escapeEscapeCharacter does not proceed the dfdl:escapeCharacter'. What is meant by 'proceed' here?" On parsing the dfdl:escapeCharacter and dfdl:escapeEscapeCharacter are removed from the data, unless the dfdl:escapeCharacter is preceded or the dfdl:escapeEscapeCharacter does not proceed the dfdl:escapeCharacter. Thanks in advance Oya ------------------------ Welcome to the TCT website: ------------------------ https://www.ibm.com/software/globalization/translationcommunications/index.j... Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
participants (2)
-
Mike Beckerle -
Steve Hanson