9.4.2.2 Simple element (xs:string or xs:hexBinary) Required occurrence: If the element has a default value then an item is added to the infoset using the default value, otherwise an item is added to the Infoset using empty string (type xs:string) or empty hexBinary (type xs:hexBinary) as the value. Optional occurrence: If dfdl:emptyValueDelimiterPolicy is not 'none' then an item is added to the Infoset using empty string (type xs:string) or empty hexBinary (type xs:hexBinary) as the value, otherwise nothing is added to the Infoset. Note: To prevent unwanted empty strings or empty hexBinary values from being added to the Infoset, use XSD minLength > '0' and a dfdl:assert that uses the dfdl:checkConstraints() function, to raise a processing error. 9.2.2 Empty Representation An element occurrence has an empty representation if the occurrence does not have a nil representation and it conforms to the grammar for SimpleEmptyElementRep or ComplexEmptyElementRep. Specifically, the EmptyElementInitiator and EmptyElementTerminator regions must be conformant with dfdl:emptyValueDelimiterPolicy and the occurrence's content in the data stream is of length zero. (If non-conformant it is not a processing error and the representation is not empty). LeadingAlignment, TrailingAlignment, PrefixLength regions may be present. Regards Steve Hanson IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 Note: I work Tuesday to Friday From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> To: Steve Hanson <smh@uk.ibm.com> Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 01/08/2018 15:13 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] clarification: on suppressed ZL string/hexBinary - do we keep variable assignments? To follow up then, I have assumed that dfdl:emptyValueDelimiterPolicy isn't even examined unless the element has default="..." i.e., a non-zero-length default value specified. I.e., without a default value, there is no concept of emptiness as distinct from "normal" representation. Are you suggesting that it is also used to control when an empty string (or empty hexbinary) is accepted as a normal representation value for an optional element, vs. treated as a missing value? That's a reasonable interpretation that I would support, but I don't know that the spec says that anywhere, so we need to add a sentence. (Unless I'm missing where this is stated.) I have also thought that dfdl:emptyValueDelimiterPolicy must be combined with dfdl:initiator and dfdl:terminator. If the combination of these is such that the empty representation is zero-length, that is what creates the situation of interest here, where it is ambiguous whether the value is the official empty representation or is the normal representation that just so happens to be of zero length. That is, there's no special significance to the 'none' EVDP property value. For example, if dfdl:emptyValueDelimiterPolicy is 'both', but dfdl:initiator="" and dfdl:terminator="", then that's just as good as dfdl:emptyValueDelimiterPolicy='none' in terms of whatever effect this has on a decision about normal vs. missing. Does this match your understanding? Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | Tresys Technology | www.tresys.com Please note: Contributions to the DFDL Workgroup's email discussions are subject to the OGF Intellectual Property Policy On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 9:26 AM, Steve Hanson <smh@uk.ibm.com> wrote: Whether to add a zero-length string or hexBinary to the infoset for an optional element depends on the setting of emptyValueDelimiterPolicy. A setting of 'none' stops it from being added. Regardless, it does not give a processing error, so is therefore known-to-exist, and therefore does not cause backtracking, so preserving discriminators and variables. Regards Steve Hanson IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 Note: I work Tuesday to Friday From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Date: 24/07/2018 15:15 Subject: [DFDL-WG] clarification: on suppressed ZL string/hexBinary - do we keep variable assignments? Sent by: "dfdl-wg" <dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org> In some situations we parse and get a successful zero-length parse for a string or hexBinary. But because the occurrence is optional, we do NOT add an element to the infoset. In that case, what happens to side-effects that occurred during the successful parse. There are two possible kinds of side-effects. Variables can be set, and a discriminator can be set to true. It seems to me that if a discriminator is set, then that *must* be preserved, and in that case it would seem the variable settings should be retained as well. Comments? Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | Tresys Technology | www.tresys.com Please note: Contributions to the DFDL Workgroup's email discussions are subject to the OGF Intellectual Property Policy -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU