Ah,

So 9.3.2 talks only about the content region being zero length. I get that now. I was not reading the word "content" specifically enough.

I also get that the second numbered list under 9.3.2.1 can't discuss empty representation, because the content region has been identified as non-zero length.

I think there are still some problems here.

In 9.3.2, I believe it's point about delimited lengthKind is problematic. You don't even know whether you are scanning for a terminator or not unless you entertain whether nillable, empty/defaultable, or normal - because of nilValueDelimiterPolicy, emptyValueDelimiterPolicy, and initiator/terminator. It's not correct to just look for a separator (if there even is one) here. I think if the lengthKind is 'delimited', then you must consider the nil representation with framing, empty representation with framing, and normal representation with framing (for string and hexBinary), in order to even find, positively, the content region in order to say that it is zero length. This is particularly true if dfdl:initiator and dfdl:terminator are the same string.

Delimiter "immediately found" isn't even a valid concept for a non-nillable complexType, as one must recurse into the type. So I think we need to be clear that a non-nillable complex type is simply not ever considered "trivially zero length".

I think the clearest thing to fix 9.3.2 is for 'delimited' is to provide the case analysis:

'delimited' => if nillable, is content zero length after initiator and before terminator framing as required by nilValueDelimiterPolicy

if simpleType - is content zero length after initiator and before terminator framing framing as required by emptyValueDelimiterPolicy

if simpleType xs:string or xs:hexBinary - is content zero length after initiator and before terminator framing (if such framing is defined.)

otherwise - not trivially zero length.

I think 9.3.2.1 needs to make the implied point about being about the content only, and then about having the corresponding required framing explicit e.g., the first sentence could change to:

"If the content is length zero as described above, the representation is then established by checking, in order for:"

After the numbered lists, a concluding sentence can say "In all cases above establishing a representation includes that it must be surrounded by its corresponding initiator/terminator if required for that representation's framing based on dfdl:nilValueDelimiterPolicy, dfdl:emptyValueDelimiterPolicy, dfdl:initiator, and dfdl:terminator."

9.3.2.2 Similarly needs to specify that "Establishing nil representation includes that it must be surrounded by its corresponding initiator/terminator if required based on dfdl:nilValueDelimiterPolicy, dfdl:initiator, and dfdl:terminator."

Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | Tresys Technology | www.tresys.com

Please note: Contributions to the DFDL Workgroup's email discussions are subject to the OGF Intellectual Property Policy

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, Steve Hanson <smh@uk.ibm.com> wrote:

Mike

9.3.2.1

First numbered list. It's implicit, as is the non-reference to nilValueDelimiterPolicy for nil rep.
Second numbered list. Should not mention empty - can't be empty as not zero length.

Don't understand what you mean by empty rep is non-zero length. We are talking about the content region only here.

Regards

Steve Hanson
IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK
Architect, IBM DFDL
Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group
smh@uk.ibm.com
tel:+44-1962-815848
mob:+44-7717-378890
Note: I work Tuesday to Friday

From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com>
To: dfdl-wg@ogf.org
Date: 17/07/2018 15:11
Subject: [DFDL-WG] Spec correction ? - Section 9.3.2.1 - second list missing "empty" representation
Sent by: "dfdl-wg" <dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org>

In section 9.3.2.1, there are two numbered lists.

The first numbered list should qualify its mention of "empty representation" with "(when the emptyValueDelimiterPolicy and initiator and terminator policies are defined such that zero-length is allowed as the empty representation.)"

The second numbered list should mention nil (literal), nil (logical), empty, and normal representations.

It is missing discussion of non-zero-length "empty" representations (due to emptyValueDelimiterPolicy not none, and initiator and terminator defined such that the empty representation is non-zero length).

Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | Tresys Technology | www.tresys.com
Please note: Contributions to the DFDL Workgroup's email discussions are subject to the OGF Intellectual Property Policy
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