Jakob, Ill just add that curation and preservation are definitely a driver my participation, and that of my colleagues at NCSA, in the DFDL specification effort over the years been funded by the US DOE and now the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) with preservation of scientific data as a key use case. In addition to participating in the spec effort at highly varying levels over the years and working on DFDL parsers (an older non-standard parser (Defuddle) and one of the two Steve mentions that is not yet out), weve been doing some work to plug it in as an iRODS microservice as part of a collaboration with SHAMAN. (Mostly demonstration/prototype use versus any real deployment at this point.) Our NARA project has also been thinking about how to extend the idea of DFDL to and RDF-level logical model, though the only implementation we currently have for that is to do Defuddle to an pre-DFDL XML model followed by a GRDDL step to get to RDF. Its very exciting to see the DFDL spec being finalized. Theres been a tremendous amount of effort from the people on this list to make it happen (kudos to those who have brought it to final form!) and, as Steve says, hopefully that energy can now turn towards documentation and building momentum in various communities. Im hoping it will take off in NSFs DataNet program for example and would like to encourage other curation/preservation efforts to participate in the specification process and to coordinate in building DFDL format descriptor libraries, contributing to open source DFDL parsers, etc. Cheers, Jim James D. Myers, PhD Associate Director, Cyberenvironments National Center for Supercomputing Applications University of Illinois @ Urbana Champaign 217-244-1934 jimmyers@ncsa.uiuc.edu From: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Steve Hanson Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 3:09 AM To: Jakob Voss Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Publication and notation of DFDL Hello Jakob Thank you for your comments. Although it has been under development for several years, the specification DFDL is only now nearing completion. Two implementations are in progress but neither is (yet) publicly available. Now that the spec is complete, we are working on a DFDL primer which will make the language more accessible. A dedicated set of web pages within the OGF site is a good idea and is something we will look into for the future. One of the goals of DFDL is to leverage existing XML technologies in order to make interoperability with XML very easy. Hence the use of XML Schema subset and XPath subset. This was considered to outweigh the any disadvantages caused by lack of XML experience by DFDL authors. Regards Steve Hanson Strategy, Common Transformation & DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL WG IBM SWG, Hursley, UK, smh@uk.ibm.com, tel +44-(0)1962-815848 From: "Jakob Voss" <Jakob.Voss@gbv.de> To: <dfdl-wg@ogf.org> Date: 31/08/2010 18:56 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Publication and notation of DFDL Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org _____ Hi, I stumbled upon DFDL searching about data archaeology - very interesting and relevant work! Is it already applied in practise for information preservation in libraries and archives? Unfortunately DFDL is not documented very well, compared to standards of W3C and similar institutions. Do you plan to set up a website with a more readable description of DFDL like other popular standards? json.org is one of the good examples because it describes the JSON standard easy to understand and with links to implementations. My second question is about the notation of DFDL. Has anyone tried to create a notation that is not based on XML? For instance Notation 3 is much more readable than RDF/XML and Backus-Naur-Form is more readable than a grammar formally defined in mathematical formulas. Especially if you describe non-XML formats it is a barrier to set up the whole XML framework stack in oder to use DFDL. I think that DFDL has strong potential but in the current form (both the way it is documented and its notation) it does not encourage potential users to adopt it. Cheers Jakob Voss -- Verbundzentrale des GBV (VZG) Digitale Bibliothek - Jakob Voß Platz der Goettinger Sieben 1 37073 Goettingen - Germany +49 (0)551 39-10242 <http://www.gbv.de/> http://www.gbv.de jakob.voss@gbv.de -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org <http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg> http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg _____ Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU