Hi Mike I've been looking into IBM DFDL's treatment of property dfdl:utf16Width. While we claim to support 'variable' and have a few tests that use this, there is not the number of tests that I would expect to test the property fully. The intent to support 'variable' is clear in the code, though; for example, when parsing we check each char for being part of a surrogate pair and adjust length accordingly. The code uses java.nio.charset for its encoders & decoders, which we wrap in our own class which notes whether utf16 is fixed or variable, but this information is not passed to the encoder/decoder as there is no way to do so. Hmm. We will add some more tests and see if everything is behaving. Back to your original question, should 'variable' be an optional feature of the spec. I have discussed with implementation team members and we think that is a sensible thing to do. To handle surrogates does require extra code to be written, and for a minimal implementation it should not be necessary to do that. Regards Steve Hanson IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 Note: I work Tuesday to Friday From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> Cc: "dfdl-wg@ogf.org" <dfdl-wg@ogf.org> Date: 04/04/2017 11:56 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases Some light on action 291 - see the last sentence of this extract from the original errata document (experience doc 1): 3.9. Section 12.3.5, 7.3.1, 7.3.2. The spec originally allows lengthKind ‘pattern’ to be used when the representation of the current element, or of a child element, is binary, but imposes restrictions on the encoding that can be in force. Clarify that the encoding property must be defined for the element (else schema definition error), and that a decoding processing error is possible if the match of the regex encounters data that does not decode in that encoding, dependent on the setting of encodingErrorPolicy. Remove section 12.3.5.1. Same clarifications needed for testKind ”pattern” property for asserts and discriminators. For consistency, the restriction that a complex element of specified length and lengthUnits ‘characters’ must have children that are all text and that have the same encoding as the complex element, is dropped So that explains how IBM DFDL's error message CTDV1524E came about, it was policing a restriction in the original GFD.174 spec, a restriction which no longer exists. IBM DFDL has not yet implemented the erratum. It wasn't an extra IBM restriction. Regards Steve Hanson IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> Cc: "dfdl-wg@ogf.org" <dfdl-wg@ogf.org> Date: 14/09/2016 08:44 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases Actions 290 and 291 raised to investigate further - see minutes. Regards Steve Hanson IBM Integration Bus, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> Cc: "dfdl-wg@ogf.org" <dfdl-wg@ogf.org> Date: 13/09/2016 13:14 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases Mike I am assuming that the processing for utf-16 'fixed' or 'variable' is entirely handled by ICU so there should be no coding overhead. IBM DFDL works ok for dfdl:lengthKind='explicit' for an element of complex type with dfdl:lengthUnits='characters' and dfdl:encoding="utf-8". But there are conditions the content of the complex type must satisfy otherwise an SDE results, such as: CTDV1524E : For a complex element, when 'lengthKind' is 'explicit' or 'prefixed', and 'lengthUnits' is characters, all simple child elements must have text representation, 'lengthUnits' set to 'characters' and the same encoding. So we insist that the properties of the children are consistent with the properties of the parent. If you recall, IBM DFDL does all these kinds of validation checks in a pre-processing phase. That seems a pretty sensible rule but I am not sure if the rule appears in the spec as such - I just had a quick look but didn't spot anything. So I guess I don't see a need for these things to be optional features? Regards Steve Hanson IBM Integration Bus, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh@uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com> To: "dfdl-wg@ogf.org" <dfdl-wg@ogf.org> Date: 10/08/2016 18:57 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases Sent by: "dfdl-wg" <dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org> Given the limited set of required encodings for a conforming DFDL processor, I believe dfdl:utf16Width='variable' should be an optional feature. That's just consistency with what is optional already. But it is also quite hard to implement. There are other situations that are very hard to implement, probably never used by real users, yet which are non optional in the spec: I would suggest that dfdl:lengthKind='explicit' for elements of complex type, with dfdl:lengthUnits='characters' and a variable-width encoding like utf-8 is very problematic to implement. I am pretty sure IBM DFDL has no implementation of this per email threads, and I know I don't want to implement this in Daffodil even though we're trying to be very comprehensive in the implementation eventually. I think implementations should be free to just not implement this. These sorts of cases often exist just because we're trying to preserve some orthogonality of composition in the language. So it's possible to do quite a few things that probably aren't ever needed by anyone, that reflect ill-defined data formats, etc. I'd rather not document a bunch of "non-conformances" for Daffodil or other implementations for these sorts of things. I'd like to say we don't implement them, but they're optional, and so that's allowed. Comments? Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | Tresys Technology | www.tresys.com Please note: Contributions to the DFDL Workgroup's email discussions are subject to the OGF Intellectual Property Policy -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU