Property 'occursStopValueKind' has its origins in the analogous property 'nullValueKind'. They are both trying to solve the same kind of out-of-band problem. I would suspect that many users would be happier considering their array as being terminated by an out-of-band stop value rather than by some odd looking markup which combines a separator with a text value. You will notice in your example that you have had to duplicate the occurs separator in two properties, which immediately says to me that it's the wrong approach. Also, having literal and logical stop values gives us a bit more flexibility. We may decide that stop values are considered data and give rise to an API event. I think this needs more discussion, we need to take into account the unparser side. Regards, Steve Steve Hanson WebSphere Message Brokers Hursley, UK Internet: smh@uk.ibm.com Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848 "Simon Parker" <simon.parker@polarlake.com> Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org 30/08/2007 12:16 To <dfdl-wg@ogf.org> cc Subject Re: [DFDL-WG] V3 of length/occurs simplification proposal Hmmm... I wasn't around for 'occursStopValueKind', so excuse me if I miss the point. Here's a question and a tentative answer I was playing with recently: What's the difference between stopValue and terminator? 'terminator' can be used to scan a stream of characters or bits without parsing elements 'stopValue' can be used to scan a sequence of parsed elements. Its datatype must be the same as the array element. If I'm right, then Steve's example is invalid because "done" is not an integer. To make it valid, either: - the stopValue must be an 'int' such as -1, or - the out-of-band value "done" or "|done" must be a terminator for an enclosing construct as follows. Change this: <element name="x" type="int" maxOccurs="unbounded" dfdl:occursSeparator="|" dfdl:occursKind="stopValue" dfdl:stopValue="done" dfdl:occursStopValueKind="literal" dfdl:representation="text"/> to this: <sequence dfdl:lengthKind="delimited" dfdl:terminator="|done" dfdl:applies="hereonly"> <element name="x" type="int" maxOccurs="unbounded" dfdl:occursSeparator="|" dfdl:occursKind="endOfData" dfdl:representation="text"/> </sequence> If I'm wrong, then what is the correct answer to the question? --- If we change the name of the property 'stopValue', then I would find these candidates consistent with similar concepts elsewhere: occursTerminator occursTerminatorValue terminatorValue Simon From: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org] On Behalf Of Mike Beckerle Sent: 29 August 2007 19:52 To: Steve Hanson Cc: dfdl-wg@ogf.org; dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] V3 of length/occurs simplification proposal Seems like occursStopValueKind="literal" only applies to representation="text". With that caveat, I think I agree we need to be able to say <element name="x" type="int" maxOccurs="unbounded" dfdl:occursSeparator="|" dfdl:occursKind="stopValue" dfdl:stopValue="done" dfdl:occursStopValueKind="literal" dfdl:representation="text"/> Then this would be valid 3 occurences for element x. 2|3|4|done I think we shoudl rename dfdl:stopValue to dfdl:occursStopValue for consistency. Mike Beckerle STSM, Architect, Scalable Computing IBM Software Group Information Platform and Solutions Westborough, MA 01581 direct: voice and FAX 508-599-7148 assistant: Pam Riordan priordan@us.ibm.com 508-599-7046 Steve Hanson <smh@uk.ibm.com> 08/29/2007 01:32 PM To Mike Beckerle/Worcester/IBM@IBMUS cc dfdl-wg@ogf.org, dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org Subject Re: [DFDL-WG] V3 of length/occurs simplification proposal Mike - looking at an old level of the spec, we had a occursStopValueKind property, with enums 'logical', 'literal' and 'missing'. Analogous to nullvalueKInd property. I'm sure we want to handle 'missing' differently but the literal v logical distinction is required. How are we proposing to cover this? Regards, Steve Steve Hanson WebSphere Message Brokers Hursley, UK Internet: smh@uk.ibm.com Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848 Mike Beckerle <beckerle@us.ibm.com> Sent by: dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org 29/08/2007 16:29 To dfdl-wg@ogf.org cc Subject [DFDL-WG] V3 of length/occurs simplification proposal Based on minutes from last week's meeting I've updated to v3 the proposal for simplifying length/occurs properties. Changes are marked with comments. -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg@ogf.org http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU