- dfdl-wg - lists.ogf.org

OGF DFDL Working Group call
by Steve Hanson 18 Apr '17

18 Apr '17

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OGF DFDL WG Call Agenda 2017-04-18
by Steve Hanson 18 Apr '17

18 Apr '17

Please find agenda for call on Redmine at https://redmine.ogf.org/dmsf_files/13552?download= Regards Steve Hanson IBM Hybrid Integration Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh(a)uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890

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OGF DFDL WG Call Minutes 2017-04-04
by Steve Hanson 04 Apr '17

04 Apr '17

Please find minutes from the above call at https://redmine.ogf.org/dmsf_files/13551?download= Next call April 18th Regards Steve Hanson IBM Hybrid Integration Architect, IBM DFDL, Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh(a)uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890

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Re: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:lengthKind='explicit' for elements of complex type, with dfdl:lengthUnits='characters' and a variable-width encoding
by Steve Hanson 04 Apr '17

04 Apr '17

The intent of the last sentence of erratum 3.9 is that the parser simply assumes the content of the complex element is valid text in the stated encoding, and reads the specified number of characters. If a decode error occurs, that's too bad, your model stated otherwise. So, no point in making this optional, it's straightforward to implement. Action 291 closed. Regards Steve Hanson IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh(a)uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl(a)gmail.com> Cc: "dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org" <dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org> Date: 04/04/2017 11:56 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases Some light on action 291 - see the last sentence of this extract from the original errata document (experience doc 1): 3.9. Section 12.3.5, 7.3.1, 7.3.2. The spec originally allows lengthKind ‘pattern’ to be used when the representation of the current element, or of a child element, is binary, but imposes restrictions on the encoding that can be in force. Clarify that the encoding property must be defined for the element (else schema definition error), and that a decoding processing error is possible if the match of the regex encounters data that does not decode in that encoding, dependent on the setting of encodingErrorPolicy. Remove section 12.3.5.1. Same clarifications needed for testKind ”pattern” property for asserts and discriminators. For consistency, the restriction that a complex element of specified length and lengthUnits ‘characters’ must have children that are all text and that have the same encoding as the complex element, is dropped So that explains how IBM DFDL's error message CTDV1524E came about, it was policing a restriction in the original GFD.174 spec, a restriction which no longer exists. IBM DFDL has not yet implemented the erratum. It wasn't an extra IBM restriction. Regards Steve Hanson IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh(a)uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl(a)gmail.com> Cc: "dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org" <dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org> Date: 14/09/2016 08:44 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases Actions 290 and 291 raised to investigate further - see minutes. Regards Steve Hanson IBM Integration Bus, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh(a)uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl(a)gmail.com> Cc: "dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org" <dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org> Date: 13/09/2016 13:14 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases Mike I am assuming that the processing for utf-16 'fixed' or 'variable' is entirely handled by ICU so there should be no coding overhead. IBM DFDL works ok for dfdl:lengthKind='explicit' for an element of complex type with dfdl:lengthUnits='characters' and dfdl:encoding="utf-8". But there are conditions the content of the complex type must satisfy otherwise an SDE results, such as: CTDV1524E : For a complex element, when 'lengthKind' is 'explicit' or 'prefixed', and 'lengthUnits' is characters, all simple child elements must have text representation, 'lengthUnits' set to 'characters' and the same encoding. So we insist that the properties of the children are consistent with the properties of the parent. If you recall, IBM DFDL does all these kinds of validation checks in a pre-processing phase. That seems a pretty sensible rule but I am not sure if the rule appears in the spec as such - I just had a quick look but didn't spot anything. So I guess I don't see a need for these things to be optional features? Regards Steve Hanson IBM Integration Bus, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh(a)uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl(a)gmail.com> To: "dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org" <dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org> Date: 10/08/2016 18:57 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases Sent by: "dfdl-wg" <dfdl-wg-bounces(a)ogf.org> Given the limited set of required encodings for a conforming DFDL processor, I believe dfdl:utf16Width='variable' should be an optional feature. That's just consistency with what is optional already. But it is also quite hard to implement. There are other situations that are very hard to implement, probably never used by real users, yet which are non optional in the spec: I would suggest that dfdl:lengthKind='explicit' for elements of complex type, with dfdl:lengthUnits='characters' and a variable-width encoding like utf-8 is very problematic to implement. I am pretty sure IBM DFDL has no implementation of this per email threads, and I know I don't want to implement this in Daffodil even though we're trying to be very comprehensive in the implementation eventually. I think implementations should be free to just not implement this. These sorts of cases often exist just because we're trying to preserve some orthogonality of composition in the language. So it's possible to do quite a few things that probably aren't ever needed by anyone, that reflect ill-defined data formats, etc. I'd rather not document a bunch of "non-conformances" for Daffodil or other implementations for these sorts of things. I'd like to say we don't implement them, but they're optional, and so that's allowed. Comments? Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | Tresys Technology | www.tresys.com Please note: Contributions to the DFDL Workgroup's email discussions are subject to the OGF Intellectual Property Policy -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU

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OGF DFDL WG Call Agenda 2017-04-04
by Steve Hanson 04 Apr '17

04 Apr '17

Please find agenda for call on Redmine at https://redmine.ogf.org/dmsf_files/13551?download= Regards Steve Hanson IBM Hybrid Integration Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh(a)uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890

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Confirmed: OGF DFDL Working Group call (4 Apr 15:00 GDT in IBM: Hursley DE3S09)
by Steve Hanson 04 Apr '17

04 Apr '17

Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU

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Proposed feature: lookup tables via simple type unions
by Mike Beckerle 04 Apr '17

04 Apr '17

A write up of the proposal, which we are prototyping in Daffodil, is here: https://opensource.ncsa.illinois.edu/confluence/display/DFDL/Enumerations+a… This is needed by a number of data formats we are working with where there are large enumerations having as many as 2000 members. Often these enumerations are a mixture where single values correspond to some enumerated strings, and ranges of values correspond to others. Using expressions to translate representation integers into strings is infeasible, as no constant-time case-statement-like construct is available in DFDL. Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | Tresys Technology | www.tresys.com Please note: Contributions to the DFDL Workgroup's email discussions are subject to the OGF Intellectual Property Policy <http://www.ogf.org/About/abt_policies.php>

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Re: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases
by Steve Hanson 04 Apr '17

04 Apr '17

Some light on action 291 - see the last sentence of this extract from the original errata document (experience doc 1): 3.9. Section 12.3.5, 7.3.1, 7.3.2. The spec originally allows lengthKind ‘pattern’ to be used when the representation of the current element, or of a child element, is binary, but imposes restrictions on the encoding that can be in force. Clarify that the encoding property must be defined for the element (else schema definition error), and that a decoding processing error is possible if the match of the regex encounters data that does not decode in that encoding, dependent on the setting of encodingErrorPolicy. Remove section 12.3.5.1. Same clarifications needed for testKind ”pattern” property for asserts and discriminators. For consistency, the restriction that a complex element of specified length and lengthUnits ‘characters’ must have children that are all text and that have the same encoding as the complex element, is dropped So that explains how IBM DFDL's error message CTDV1524E came about, it was policing a restriction in the original GFD.174 spec, a restriction which no longer exists. IBM DFDL has not yet implemented the erratum. It wasn't an extra IBM restriction. Regards Steve Hanson IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh(a)uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl(a)gmail.com> Cc: "dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org" <dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org> Date: 14/09/2016 08:44 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases Actions 290 and 291 raised to investigate further - see minutes. Regards Steve Hanson IBM Integration Bus, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh(a)uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM To: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl(a)gmail.com> Cc: "dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org" <dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org> Date: 13/09/2016 13:14 Subject: Re: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases Mike I am assuming that the processing for utf-16 'fixed' or 'variable' is entirely handled by ICU so there should be no coding overhead. IBM DFDL works ok for dfdl:lengthKind='explicit' for an element of complex type with dfdl:lengthUnits='characters' and dfdl:encoding="utf-8". But there are conditions the content of the complex type must satisfy otherwise an SDE results, such as: CTDV1524E : For a complex element, when 'lengthKind' is 'explicit' or 'prefixed', and 'lengthUnits' is characters, all simple child elements must have text representation, 'lengthUnits' set to 'characters' and the same encoding. So we insist that the properties of the children are consistent with the properties of the parent. If you recall, IBM DFDL does all these kinds of validation checks in a pre-processing phase. That seems a pretty sensible rule but I am not sure if the rule appears in the spec as such - I just had a quick look but didn't spot anything. So I guess I don't see a need for these things to be optional features? Regards Steve Hanson IBM Integration Bus, Hursley, UK Architect, IBM DFDL Co-Chair, OGF DFDL Working Group smh(a)uk.ibm.com tel:+44-1962-815848 mob:+44-7717-378890 From: Mike Beckerle <mbeckerle.dfdl(a)gmail.com> To: "dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org" <dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org> Date: 10/08/2016 18:57 Subject: [DFDL-WG] Suggest should be optional feature of DFDL - dfdl:utf16Width='variable' and other corner cases Sent by: "dfdl-wg" <dfdl-wg-bounces(a)ogf.org> Given the limited set of required encodings for a conforming DFDL processor, I believe dfdl:utf16Width='variable' should be an optional feature. That's just consistency with what is optional already. But it is also quite hard to implement. There are other situations that are very hard to implement, probably never used by real users, yet which are non optional in the spec: I would suggest that dfdl:lengthKind='explicit' for elements of complex type, with dfdl:lengthUnits='characters' and a variable-width encoding like utf-8 is very problematic to implement. I am pretty sure IBM DFDL has no implementation of this per email threads, and I know I don't want to implement this in Daffodil even though we're trying to be very comprehensive in the implementation eventually. I think implementations should be free to just not implement this. These sorts of cases often exist just because we're trying to preserve some orthogonality of composition in the language. So it's possible to do quite a few things that probably aren't ever needed by anyone, that reflect ill-defined data formats, etc. I'd rather not document a bunch of "non-conformances" for Daffodil or other implementations for these sorts of things. I'd like to say we don't implement them, but they're optional, and so that's allowed. Comments? Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | Tresys Technology | www.tresys.com Please note: Contributions to the DFDL Workgroup's email discussions are subject to the OGF Intellectual Property Policy -- dfdl-wg mailing list dfdl-wg(a)ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/dfdl-wg Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU

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clarification: unionMemberSchema
by Mike Beckerle 29 Mar '17

29 Mar '17

If I have nested union types (unions of unions) then does unionMemberSchema give the "innermost" schema component, or the "outermost"? This feature was added to DFDL to support PSVI infosets. My use case is not that, but in implementing this feature I want to make sure I am doing it consistently with what is needed for the original PSVI need. Specifically, if I have a valid Element Infoset Item for element 'u' below, does unionMemberSchema give a SCID for an outerUnion or innerUnion schema component? <element name="u"> <simpleType> <union memberTypes="outerUnion1 outerUnion2"/> </simpleType> </element> <simpleType name="outerUnion1"> <union memberTypes="innerUnion1 innerUnion2/> </simpleType> <simpleType name="outerUnion2"> <union memberTypes="innerUnion3 innerUnion4/> </simpleType> <simpleType name="innerUnion1"> <restriction base="xs:int"> ... </restriction> </simpleType> <simpleType name="innerUnion2"> <restriction base="xs:int"> ... </restriction> </simpleType> <simpleType name="innerUnion3"> <restriction base="xs:int"> ... </restriction> </simpleType> <simpleType name="innerUnion4"> <restriction base="xs:int"> ... </restriction> </simpleType> Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL Workgroup Co-Chair | Tresys Technology | www.tresys.com Please note: Contributions to the DFDL Workgroup's email discussions are subject to the OGF Intellectual Property Policy <http://www.ogf.org/About/abt_policies.php>

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Cancelled: OGF DFDL Working Group call
by Steve Hanson 20 Mar '17

20 Mar '17

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