December 2005 - dfdl-wg - lists.ogf.org

Last telcon of 2005
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 21 Dec '05

21 Dec '05

Present ------- Martin Westhead Tara Talbott Bob McGrath Steve Hanson Geoff Judd We discussed Geoff's document comparing properties and variables. Martin is working on a proposal to combine these concepts and is promising to produce a document shortly after the new year to outline these ideas. We heard a summary from Mike on the scoping proposal that IBM is working on. ***Note: there will be no telcon on December 28th*** (The next call will be January 4th) Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays! Martin

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Telcon now
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 21 Dec '05

21 Dec '05

Sorry for the late reminder. Martin Conference call instructions: Number: 1-800-664-0771 At the automated answering system, press 0 for the operator. Ask for the "Daffodil working group" call.

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Properties and Variables
by Geoff Judd 21 Dec '05

21 Dec '05

Hi, I have attached a document the compares properties and variables It is intended to be used as the basis for a discussion at this afternoon's conference call. Regards, Geoff Judd Websphere MQ Integrator Development IBM UK Ltd Hursley Telephone: +44-1962-818461 E-mail: JUDDG(a)uk.ibm.com

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Notes from telcon
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 14 Dec '05

14 Dec '05

Present ------- Bob McGrath Martin Westhead Steve Hanson Geoff Judd Tara Talbott Items ----- 1. Planning for next GGF (February) I believe the deadline for meeting proposals is coming up soon. We need to get our act together and figure out our representation in Athens. At this point we do not have any definite attendees. Note: If no one can go it may be OK for us to skip this one? 2. Variable semantics Discussed the possible overlap between properties and variables. It is important to understand if there is a single mechanism that meets both requirements here. So can we meet the requirements of a variable with a user-defined property? Can we use the same scoping rules for both? 3. Ongoing review of tracker tasks Extensibility group is making progress, they had a good meeting last week and found a lot of opportunity with "hidden layer" semantics to help support read-modify-write cycles for DFDL.

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RE: [dfdl-wg] Telcon Notes
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 14 Dec '05

14 Dec '05

Hi Geoff, I'll certainly put this on the agenda. If anyone has anything else please let me know. Also some comments: 1. I'd like to understand how variables relate to parameters, specifically: a. Could we actually define variables to be user-defined parameters? (if not, why not?) b. If (a) doesn't work can we have variables use the same scoping rules as parameters? 2. In the extensibility group we have been talking about reference direction. It was proposed that XPaths in a DFDL document can only refer to elements higher up the document (i.e. backwards only) they cannot reference things below them (which will not yet have been parsed). With the use of "hidden layers" this can be done without loss of generality. I would suggest that variable references should work this way. I.e you are only allowed to refer to data that has already been parsed. Thanks, Martin _____ From: Geoff Judd [mailto:JUDDG@uk.ibm.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:34 AM To: Westhead, Martin (Martin) Cc: dfdl-wg(a)ggf.org Subject: Re: [dfdl-wg] Telcon Notes Martin, Please can you add a discussion of the semantics of DFDL Variables to the agenda of tomorrow's telecon. I have attached a document with some thoughts that I have had on the subject. Regards, Geoff Judd Websphere MQ Integrator Development IBM UK Ltd Hursley Telephone: +44-1962-818461 E-mail: JUDDG(a)uk.ibm.com "Westhead, Martin (Martin)" <westhead(a)avaya.com> Sent by: owner-dfdl-wg(a)ggf.org 30/11/2005 18:12 To <dfdl-wg(a)ggf.org> cc Subject [dfdl-wg] Telcon Notes Present ------- Mike Bekerle Tara Talbott Martin Westhead Geoff Judd Steve Hanson Bob McGrath Reports from Active Trackers ---------------------------- Scoping tracker is being worked on - no news. Extensibility group is moving forward - nothing to report yet Discussion of Geoff's documents ------------------------------- Variables doc Mike observed that variables could be used in place of his extensibility proposal on annotations. Martin asked about whether we wanted to include this in the standard. Is the complexity worth the addition - the feeling of the meeting was probably it was. Martin proposed that instead of binding a variable value to an element, the variable value should be set with an XPath expression. Discussed the question as to whether the variable value can be reset, whether it can/should be scoped in the same way as annotation attributes. Next step will be for Geoff to revise the document to look at cases where value may need to be reset and start to explore some of the semantic issues involved. Choices doc Discriminator type - what if discriminator is not a string? For efficiency can we handle discriminators that are integers? Suggest that instead of discriminators being computed to strings they are computed to an XPath value with its implied type so that numeric discriminators do need to be converted to strings. Wildcard docs Group seemed fairly happy with this proposal as it stands.

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Telcon tomorrow (Wednesday)
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 14 Dec '05

14 Dec '05

Preliminary Agenda ------------------ 1. Planning for next GGF (February) 2. Variable semantics 3. Ongoing review of tracker tasks Conference call instructions: Number: 1-800-664-0771 At the automated answering system, press 0 for the operator. Ask for the "Daffodil working group" call.

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Telcon Notes
by Westhead, Martin (Martin) 13 Dec '05

13 Dec '05

Present ------- Mike Bekerle Tara Talbott Martin Westhead Geoff Judd Steve Hanson Bob McGrath Reports from Active Trackers ---------------------------- Scoping tracker is being worked on - no news. Extensibility group is moving forward - nothing to report yet Discussion of Geoff's documents ------------------------------- Variables doc Mike observed that variables could be used in place of his extensibility proposal on annotations. Martin asked about whether we wanted to include this in the standard. Is the complexity worth the addition - the feeling of the meeting was probably it was. Martin proposed that instead of binding a variable value to an element, the variable value should be set with an XPath expression. Discussed the question as to whether the variable value can be reset, whether it can/should be scoped in the same way as annotation attributes. Next step will be for Geoff to revise the document to look at cases where value may need to be reset and start to explore some of the semantic issues involved. Choices doc Discriminator type - what if discriminator is not a string? For efficiency can we handle discriminators that are integers? Suggest that instead of discriminators being computed to strings they are computed to an XPath value with its implied type so that numeric discriminators do need to be converted to strings. Wildcard docs Group seemed fairly happy with this proposal as it stands.

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Re: [dfdl-wg] Tomorrow's telcon
by Jim Myers 07 Dec '05

07 Dec '05

Same here - and I may have only <=1.5 hours for the extensibility meeting... Jim At 09:40 AM 12/7/2005, Mike Beckerle wrote: > >I will be unable to make the 9am PST call today, though I will >participate in the extensibility telecon later in the day. > >Status here is that IBMers are rapidly converging on common mind >w.r.t. the scoping revisions, so that is moving along well. My goal >to have draft docs out to the broader WG is slipping, I realize, but >at least we are not without forward progress on the issues. > >...mikeb > >Mike Beckerle >STSM, Architect, Scalable Computing >IBM Software Group >Information Integration Solutions >Westborough, MA 01581 >voice and FAX 508-599-7148 >home/mobile office 508-915-4767 > > > > >Martin Westhead <martinwesthead(a)yahoo.co.uk> >Sent by: owner-dfdl-wg(a)ggf.org > >12/06/2005 11:12 PM >To >dfdl-wg(a)gridforum.org >cc >Subject >[dfdl-wg] Tomorrow's telcon > > > > > >Preliminary Agenda >------------------ > > - Review progress - what are the outstanding items for discussion, >what > is not gated on extension proposal? > - Goals for next GGF? > > >Conference call instructions: > >Number: 1-800-664-0771 >At the automated answering system, press 0 for the operator. >Ask for the "Daffodil working group" call. > James D. Myers Associate Director, Collaborative Systems, NCSA 1205 W. Clark St, MC-257 Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-1934 jimmyers(a)ncsa.uiuc.edu

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Tomorrow's telcon
by Martin Westhead 07 Dec '05

07 Dec '05

Preliminary Agenda ------------------ - Review progress - what are the outstanding items for discussion, what is not gated on extension proposal? - Goals for next GGF? Conference call instructions: Number: 1-800-664-0771 At the automated answering system, press 0 for the operator. Ask for the "Daffodil working group" call.

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Fw: location of the complexEndian example
by Mike Beckerle 06 Dec '05

06 Dec '05

Strange. I sent this some days ago, but it bounced back today complaining about the domain in dfdl-wg(a)ggf.org. Here is is again. I'll try gridforum.org domain this time. ...mikeb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From our call today, people asked where the complexEndian example went.... On gridforge, this zip file document https://forge.gridforum.org/docman2/ViewProperties.php?group_id=113&categor… contains files named testComplexNum1.* and testComplexNumTypedef1.* Those are the files with my original mock-ups about extensions to add a "complexEndian" attribute. ...mikeb "Westhead, Martin (Martin)" <westhead(a)avaya.com> Sent by: owner-dfdl-wg(a)ggf.org 11/30/2005 01:12 PM To <dfdl-wg(a)ggf.org> cc Subject [dfdl-wg] Telcon Notes Present ------- Mike Bekerle Tara Talbott Martin Westhead Geoff Judd Steve Hanson Bob McGrath Reports from Active Trackers ---------------------------- Scoping tracker is being worked on - no news. Extensibility group is moving forward - nothing to report yet Discussion of Geoff's documents ------------------------------- Variables doc Mike observed that variables could be used in place of his extensibility proposal on annotations. Martin asked about whether we wanted to include this in the standard. Is the complexity worth the addition - the feeling of the meeting was probably it was. Martin proposed that instead of binding a variable value to an element, the variable value should be set with an XPath expression. Discussed the question as to whether the variable value can be reset, whether it can/should be scoped in the same way as annotation attributes. Next step will be for Geoff to revise the document to look at cases where value may need to be reset and start to explore some of the semantic issues involved. Choices doc Discriminator type - what if discriminator is not a string? For efficiency can we handle discriminators that are integers? Suggest that instead of discriminators being computed to strings they are computed to an XPath value with its implied type so that numeric discriminators do need to be converted to strings. Wildcard docs Group seemed fairly happy with this proposal as it stands.

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