On 08/13/2017 11:17 AM, jim bell wrote:

Sort of an armed "Guardian Angels" operation.

You're describing the OG Black Panther Party. Then black people in the US were systematically disarmed post-60s rat-infested ghettoed burning. Someone pointed out all that 'tactical' gear and bacon at Charlottesville indicated the "United" crowd was middle class and can afford that, and a $1500 dollar Ar replica. Someone just making ends meet working 3 fast food joint jobs can't. "But Saturday Night, well ain't that special. They got the constitution on the run." Gil Scott-Heron, "Gun" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9cfTKTDXTw

From a conservative magazine, New Republic:

Gun Control Is “Racist”? The NRA would know By Adam Winkler February 4, 2013 National Rifle Association President David Keene stirred controversy Saturday by insisting that gun control’s origins were racist. “You know, when you go back in history,” Keene told the Daily Caller, “the initial wave of [gun laws] was instituted after the Civil War to deny blacks the ability to defend themselves.” Keene’s history is off by at least century—gun control existed in the American colonies and in the founding era—but nonetheless Keene points to an ugly truth about American history: Gun control has historically been used for racist purposes. And the NRA’s president should know: His organization was intimately involved in this history, promoting gun control laws that were tainted with racism... Full: https://newrepublic.com/article/112322/gun-control-racist Rr

*From:* Leigh Meyers

...

Redneck Revolt is a national network of community defense projects from a broad spread of political, religious, and cultural backgrounds. It is a pro-worker,

At first glance, using the term "pro-worker" suggests 'anyone who has a job'. THAT would sound very inclusive, wouldn't it? But from extensive experience reading, I've found generally this is used to mean, "blue-collar workers". I really have to wonder about people who insert code-words and code-phrases in their speech. Sounds like the same old "class-struggle" nonsense we've been hearing from Communists and Socialists for 120+ years. The same Communists and Socialists who were responsible for well over half of the government-caused deaths around the world in the 20th century.

I should also point out that the kind of people who speak and write like this tend to be PC (politically-correct), which makes me want to prod them by reminding them that "pro-worker" could be construed as rudely excluding people who take welfare-checks. Are they trying to be hostile in this way? At least, there's an inconsistency here. But we know they aren't hostile to welfare-check recipients. Rather, they are simply being selective in their targeted audience. Divide and conquer. And their website, below, confirms this. Class this, class that.

...

anti-racist organization

My working definition of "racist" tends to be, "Anybody who thinks race is important". Sadly, the term "anti-racist" is generally used as yet another code-word, used to imply "leftist". Will you be mystified when I tell you that I think that leftists are some of the biggest "racists" there are? Do you understand why?

...

that focuses on working class liberation from the oppressive systems which dominate our lives.

Uh, pardon me, but why only "working class liberation"? And do you mean, "everybody who has a job", or "just blue-collar workers". And why don't you say you want to 'liberate' welfare-recipients, too? Or retired people? Or children? What do you think made them welfare-recipients in the first place? Are they not worthy of being liberated as well? Okay, I know, I know, you are engaging in selective marketing here.

Tell you what. 22 years ago, I figured out a method that would truly and completely liberate everyone from the oppressive systems which dominate our lives. I called it, "Assassination Politics". (AP for short) https://cryptome.org/ap.htm and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_market Maybe it will scare you, because I claim it will completely eliminate governments as we know them, and anybody who has a warm place in his heart for having a large, intrusive government will find this outcome truly terrifying. Read the essay and tell us all if you are terrified. ×

...

In states where it is legal to practice armed community defense, many branches choose to become John Brown Gun Clubs, training ourselves and our communities in defense and mutual aid.

On the one hand, I'd say that's great. Sounds like a militia. I wonder, however, if there is any recognition here that historically, the left has been strongly anti-gun, and has extensively spoken against the formation and operation of militias. Are you ignoring those facts? Do you recognize the inconsistency? Maybe you should, first, explicitly acknowledge this major error, and then work to fix it?

Maybe your first project should be Chicago, with its famous level of murders. Sort of an armed "Guardian Angels" operation. Are you hostile to the people who are doing those murders? If not, why not? And maybe you won't be able to carry guns in the open, exactly due to the restrictive gun laws in Chicago? The very same restrictive gun laws that keep ordinary, law-abiding citizens from carrying guns, laws that somehow don't seem to prevent the criminal-class from carry guns.

Maybe you ought to advocate for a change in gun laws, so that American government would actually obey and respect the rights guaranteed to all Americans by the 2nd Amendment. My understanding is that when the 2nd Amendment was written, in 1789, and ratified, in 1791, the only people prohibited from keeping and bearing arms were people who were already convicted of a death-penalty offense: Such crimes were called "felonies", those so restricted were called "felons". Problem is, over the next 200 years, the definition of "felony" changed, ultimately being a crime punishable by a year or more in prison. Do you really think the Founding Fathers intended that this be the proper definition of "felony", and that anyone so convicted be prohibited from owning guns?

(One exception: Blacks were not allowed to own guns in the pre-Civil war period. But the reason given was that they were not considered "citizens". One argument made about the Dred Scott Supreme Court decision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford is that if blacks were declared citizens, they would have the right to own guns.) ×

...

This project was founded in June 2016, by several members of previous similar community defense formations in Kansas and Colorado. We have 30+ vetted branches, united under our common goals as outlined in our principles, and organized through a collaboratively built national network.

...

https://www.redneckrevolt.org/

I checked it. Clearly a lefty screed. You are obviously not ready to solve any problem, let alone all of them.

Jim Bell

...

Rr

...

Ps. The 60s. "Rising Up Angry", Radical 'Greasers'

...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Up_Angry

On 08/13/2017 10:18 PM, jim bell wrote:

*From:* Razer

On 08/13/2017 11:17 AM, jim bell wrote:

...

...

...

Sort of an armed "Guardian Angels" operation. [...]

...

From a conservative magazine, New Republic:

...

Gun Control Is “Racist”? The NRA would know By Adam Winkler February 4, 2013

...

National Rifle Association President David Keene stirred controversy Saturday by insisting that gun control’s origins were racist. “You know, >when you go back in history,” Keene told the Daily Caller, “the initial wave of [gun laws] was instituted after the Civil War to deny blacks the >ability to defend themselves.” Keene’s history is off by at least century—gun control existed in the American colonies and in the founding era—

I wish people who made that these claims would provide details.

Do your own research. These are magazine articles, not white(snigger) papers.

As for "the American colonies", well that was of course when we were "colonies": We existed under British law. Laws then would have been only weakly relevant. As for "the founding era", that would be very relevant, but what were those restrictions?

With the Civil War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War ending, and the question of the rights of freed slaves to carry arms and to belong to militia came to the attention of the federal courts. In response to the problems freed slaves faced in the Southern states, the Fourteenth Amendment was drafted.

When the Fourteenth Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Cons... was drafted, Representative John A. Bingham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bingham of Ohio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio used the Court's own phrase "privileges and immunities of citizens" to include the first Eight Amendments of the Bill of Rights under its protection and guard these rights against state legislation.^[20] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_States#cite_note-Ke...

The debate in the Congress on the Fourteenth Amendment after the Civil War also concentrated on what the Southern States were doing to harm the newly freed slaves. One particular concern was the disarming of former slaves.

The Second Amendment attracted serious judicial attention with the Reconstruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_era_of_the_United_States era case of /United States v. Cruikshank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cruikshank/ which ruled that the Privileges or Immunities Clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privileges_or_Immunities_Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment did not cause the Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment, to limit the powers of the State governments, stating that the Second Amendment "has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government."

Akhil Reed Amar notes in the /Yale Law Journal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale_Law_Journal/, the basis of Common Law for the first ten amendments of the U.S. Constitution, which would include the Second Amendment, "following John Randolph Tucker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Randolph_Tucker_%281823%E2%80%931897%29's famous oral argument in the 1887 Chicago anarchist Haymarket Riot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_Riot case, /Spies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Spies v. Illinois/":

Though originally the first ten Amendments were adopted as limitations on Federal power, yet in so far as they secure and recognize fundamental rights—common law rights—of the man, they make them privileges and immunities of the man as citizen of the United States...^[21] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_States#cite_note-21 ^:1270

Breyer's dissent in McDonald v. Chicago, https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf , gives some examples, but mostly they seem to prohibit discharge of firearms in cities.

There is no indication that there would be an actual prosecution for such a discharge, if it was done for the purpose of self-defense.

Tell that to some black kid who gets killed defending himself with a bag of skittles instead of a tec9. But lets talk about the real problem. Institutional racism, by intent and design, and it's built into your Rich White Men's |c̶o̶n̶s̶t̶i̶p̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ constitution. http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/08/charlottesville-what-you-wish-upon-othe... https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/america-fixates-on-500-assholes-instead-o... |

There is also the point that only in 2010 was it specifically ruled that the right specified in the 2nd Amendment was "incorporated" to cover the states, rather than the Federal government. Most of those Amendments were not thought to cover the states until the late 19th century, if then.

Jim Bell

[...]

...

Full: https://newrepublic.com/article/112322/gun-control-racist

...

Rr

...

*From:* Leigh Meyers mailto:g2s@riseup.net

...

Redneck Revolt is a national network of community defense projects from a broad spread of political, religious, and cultural backgrounds. It is a pro-worker,

At first glance, using the term "pro-worker" suggests 'anyone who has a job'. THAT would sound very inclusive, wouldn't it? But from extensive experience reading, I've found generally this is used to mean, "blue-collar workers". I really have to wonder about people who insert code-words and code-phrases in their speech. Sounds like the same old "class-struggle" nonsense we've been hearing from Communists and Socialists for 120+ years. The same Communists and Socialists who were responsible for well over half of the government-caused deaths around the world in the 20th century.

I should also point out that the kind of people who speak and write like this tend to be PC (politically-correct), which makes me want to prod them by reminding them that "pro-worker" could be construed as rudely excluding people who take welfare-checks. Are they trying to be hostile in this way? At least, there's an inconsistency here. But we know they aren't hostile to welfare-check recipients. Rather, they are simply being selective in their targeted audience. Divide and conquer. And their website, below, confirms this. Class this, class that.

...

anti-racist organization

My working definition of "racist" tends to be, "Anybody who thinks race is important". Sadly, the term "anti-racist" is generally used as yet another code-word, used to imply "leftist". Will you be mystified when I tell you that I think that leftists are some of the biggest "racists" there are? Do you understand why?

...

that focuses on working class liberation from the oppressive systems which dominate our lives.

Uh, pardon me, but why only "working class liberation"? And do you mean, "everybody who has a job", or "just blue-collar workers". And why don't you say you want to 'liberate' welfare-recipients, too? Or retired people? Or children? What do you think made them welfare-recipients in the first place? Are they not worthy of being liberated as well? Okay, I know, I know, you are engaging in selective marketing here.

Tell you what. 22 years ago, I figured out a method that would truly and completely liberate everyone from the oppressive systems which dominate our lives. I called it, "Assassination Politics". (AP for short) https://cryptome.org/ap.htm and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_market Maybe it will scare you, because I claim it will completely eliminate governments as we know them, and anybody who has a warm place in his heart for having a large, intrusive government will find this outcome truly terrifying. Read the essay and tell us all if you are terrified. ×

...

In states where it is legal to practice armed community defense, many branches choose to become John Brown Gun Clubs, training ourselves and our communities in defense and mutual aid.

On the one hand, I'd say that's great. Sounds like a militia. I wonder, however, if there is any recognition here that historically, the left has been strongly anti-gun, and has extensively spoken against the formation and operation of militias. Are you ignoring those facts? Do you recognize the inconsistency? Maybe you should, first, explicitly acknowledge this major error, and then work to fix it?

Maybe your first project should be Chicago, with its famous level of murders. Sort of an armed "Guardian Angels" operation. Are you hostile to the people who are doing those murders? If not, why not? And maybe you won't be able to carry guns in the open, exactly due to the restrictive gun laws in Chicago? The very same restrictive gun laws that keep ordinary, law-abiding citizens from carrying guns, laws that somehow don't seem to prevent the criminal-class from carry guns.

Maybe you ought to advocate for a change in gun laws, so that American government would actually obey and respect the rights guaranteed to all Americans by the 2nd Amendment. My understanding is that when the 2nd Amendment was written, in 1789, and ratified, in 1791, the only people prohibited from keeping and bearing arms were people who were already convicted of a death-penalty offense: Such crimes were called "felonies", those so restricted were called "felons". Problem is, over the next 200 years, the definition of "felony" changed, ultimately being a crime punishable by a year or more in prison. Do you really think the Founding Fathers intended that this be the proper definition of "felony", and that anyone so convicted be prohibited from owning guns?

(One exception: Blacks were not allowed to own guns in the pre-Civil war period. But the reason given was that they were not considered "citizens". One argument made about the Dred Scott Supreme Court decision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford is that if blacks were declared citizens, they would have the right to own guns.) ×

...

This project was founded in June 2016, by several members of previous similar community defense formations in Kansas and Colorado. We have 30+ vetted branches, united under our common goals as outlined in our principles, and organized through a collaboratively built national network.

...

https://www.redneckrevolt.org/

I checked it. Clearly a lefty screed. You are obviously not ready to solve any problem, let alone all of them.

Jim Bell

...

Rr

...

Ps. The 60s. "Rising Up Angry", Radical 'Greasers'

...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Up_Angry

I tried a few at random; all 404 errors.           Jim Bell From: juan To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [vanity post] A whole new meaning to 'Rr' On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 08:56:21 -0700 Leigh Meyers wrote:

https://www.redneckrevolt.org/

https://static.parastorage.com/services/santa/1.2367.29 https://www.redneckrevolt.org/.replace(/%5Bxy%5D/g, https://frog.wix.com/bt?src=29&evid=334234&pn=1&et=1&v=1.2367.29&msid=0d37a3423429d-b23450d-43-8ae5-7609430452348&vgfe4323si= https://www.redneckrevolt.org/ https://www.redneckrevolt.org/.split( https:/// https://www.redneckrevolt.org/bam.nr-data.net https://static.parastorage.com/ https://static.parastorage.com/services/wix-users/2.660.0 https://frog.wix.com/ https://users.wix.com/ https://premium.wix.com/ https://static.wixstatic.com/ https://frog.wix.com/plebs https://todo/ https://users.wix.com/wix-users https://static.parastorage.com/services/wix-public/1.231.0 https://www.wix.com/ https://www.wix.com/my-account https://www.wix.com/new/account https://www.redneckrevolt.org/wix.com https://static.wixstatic.com/media https://music.wixstatic.com/mp3 https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd https://assets.wix.com/common-services/notification/invoke https://static.parastorage.com/wix_blob http://editor.wix.com/html https://users.wix.com/wix-sm https://static.parastorage.com/services/santa-versions/1.419.0 https://static.parastorage.com/services/dbsm-viewer-app/1.106.0

On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 09:25:11PM -0300, Juan wrote:

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 00:00:59 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote:

...

I tried a few at random; all 404 errors.     

Haha. Sorry I didn't explain. That's a (partial) list of javascript scripts that get executed* if you visit the site.

I thought it was funny that a 'redneck' site uses the lastest javashit malware 'technology'.

https://noscript.net/

*in your browser, without your consent.

Given how Leighstein (new nom de plumage) just "loves" redneck "fascists" so much he hails for them to all be summarily executed on the streets, I assume this is a fishing expedition of some sorts. And anyway, since it's so easy it is to determine one person's thoughts and true intentions (and therefore fuhrther actions) based on their wearing a swastika peace wheel coopted as NAZI regalia, and since that's so easy, it's then self evidently logical to exterminate them for their beliefs, because, in the immortal words of Pichai Sundararajan, alternative beliefs about commonly held politically correct social dogmas is "Not, OK!" We bin told, whigger! We bin reaaally told dis time!

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 18:12:03 -0700 Razer wrote:

On 08/13/2017 05:25 PM, juan wrote:

...

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 00:00:59 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote:

...

I tried a few at random; all 404 errors.

Haha. Sorry I didn't explain. That's a (partial) list of javascript scripts that get executed* if you visit the site.

So? Use noscript. Page still loads.

lol - that's the point - it doesn't load when JS is correctly blocked. The list I posted *comes* from noscript.

wix and parastorage are about as plain vanilla as it gets.

yep, just like cloudflare.

Rr

...

I thought it was funny that a 'redneck' site uses the lastest javashit malware 'technology'.

https://noscript.net/

*in your browser, without your consent.

...

Jim Bell

From: juan To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [vanity post] A whole new meaning to 'Rr'

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 08:56:21 -0700 Leigh Meyers wrote:

...

https://www.redneckrevolt.org/

https://static.parastorage.com/services/santa/1.2367.29 https://www.redneckrevolt.org/.replace(/%5Bxy%5D/g, https://frog.wix.com/bt?src=29&evid=334234&pn=1&et=1&v=1.2367.29&msid=0d37a3423429d-b23450d-43-8ae5-7609430452348&vgfe4323si= https://www.redneckrevolt.org/ https://www.redneckrevolt.org/.split( https:/// https://www.redneckrevolt.org/bam.nr-data.net https://static.parastorage.com/ https://static.parastorage.com/services/wix-users/2.660.0 https://frog.wix.com/ https://users.wix.com/ https://premium.wix.com/ https://static.wixstatic.com/ https://frog.wix.com/plebs https://todo/ https://users.wix.com/wix-users https://static.parastorage.com/services/wix-public/1.231.0 https://www.wix.com/ https://www.wix.com/my-account https://www.wix.com/new/account https://www.redneckrevolt.org/wix.com https://static.wixstatic.com/media https://music.wixstatic.com/mp3 https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd https://assets.wix.com/common-services/notification/invoke https://static.parastorage.com/wix_blob http://editor.wix.com/html https://users.wix.com/wix-sm https://static.parastorage.com/services/santa-versions/1.419.0 https://static.parastorage.com/services/dbsm-viewer-app/1.106.0

Ps. I don't trust anyone. Just because I point a site or org out doesn't mean I endorse them or know anything about their underlying agendas, other than I'm pretty sure they aren't directly tied police organizations (note I didn't say infiltration wasn't possible) or hosted by a federal honeypot like Cloudflare. Scrub your own javsacript and stop whining. Rr On 08/13/2017 05:25 PM, juan wrote:

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 00:00:59 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote:

...

I tried a few at random; all 404 errors.

Haha. Sorry I didn't explain. That's a (partial) list of javascript scripts that get executed* if you visit the site.

I thought it was funny that a 'redneck' site uses the lastest javashit malware 'technology'.

https://noscript.net/

*in your browser, without your consent.

...

Jim Bell

From: juan To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [vanity post] A whole new meaning to 'Rr'

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 08:56:21 -0700 Leigh Meyers wrote:

...

https://www.redneckrevolt.org/

https://static.parastorage.com/services/santa/1.2367.29 https://www.redneckrevolt.org/.replace(/%5Bxy%5D/g, https://frog.wix.com/bt?src=29&evid=334234&pn=1&et=1&v=1.2367.29&msid=0d37a3423429d-b23450d-43-8ae5-7609430452348&vgfe4323si= https://www.redneckrevolt.org/ https://www.redneckrevolt.org/.split( https:/// https://www.redneckrevolt.org/bam.nr-data.net https://static.parastorage.com/ https://static.parastorage.com/services/wix-users/2.660.0 https://frog.wix.com/ https://users.wix.com/ https://premium.wix.com/ https://static.wixstatic.com/ https://frog.wix.com/plebs https://todo/ https://users.wix.com/wix-users https://static.parastorage.com/services/wix-public/1.231.0 https://www.wix.com/ https://www.wix.com/my-account https://www.wix.com/new/account https://www.redneckrevolt.org/wix.com https://static.wixstatic.com/media https://music.wixstatic.com/mp3 https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd https://assets.wix.com/common-services/notification/invoke https://static.parastorage.com/wix_blob http://editor.wix.com/html https://users.wix.com/wix-sm https://static.parastorage.com/services/santa-versions/1.419.0 https://static.parastorage.com/services/dbsm-viewer-app/1.106.0