Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

grarpamp

2 Sep 2017 2 Sep '17

7:41 a.m.

\0xd: Yeah, humans are both the cause and the cure. The major source of inadequacy in THIS population (crypto-anarchists) is the failure to examine why the 60's failed to produce the revolution it desired. It had love, peace, and an awesome soundtrack -- yet it failed.

60s quite possibly... Too much drugs, violence, disorganization... And unencrypted tappable mail, phone, bank lines...

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Steve Kinney

2 Sep 2 Sep

4:34 p.m.

On 09/02/2017 03:41 AM, grarpamp wrote:

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\0xd: Yeah, humans are both the cause and the cure. The major source of inadequacy in THIS population (crypto-anarchists) is the failure to examine why the 60's failed to produce the revolution it desired. It had love, peace, and an awesome soundtrack -- yet it failed.

60s quite possibly... Too much drugs, violence, disorganization... And unencrypted tappable mail, phone, bank lines...

I view the United States of the 1960s as the second half of an unprecedented 20 year economic boom produced by unprecedented advances in technology, setting the scene for a cultural war between advocates of compassionate & egalitarian values fueled by Middle Class prosperity and LSD, and a reactionary backlash against same by advocates of authoritarian values. The latter group won, hands down, because the machinery of institutional violence was in their hands and the Golden Rule was on their side: Whoever has the gold makes the rules. Around 1970 the Post-WWII economic boom started to flatten out, due to market saturation - everyone with money to spend was spending it as fast as they ever would. Production costs also started to rise due to resource depletion - the cheapest, easiest to get high value materials were used up and continued extraction at established rates started costing more every year. Alongside this, a tipping point in domestic political warfare arrived and the last vestiges of actually Liberal radicalism were successfully replaced with a set-piece war between militant factions covertly developed by the State then very publicly attacked by the same agencies that created them. On the economic front a collective decision was taken by the U.S. ruling class - one might more accurately say a mindless tropism was followed - and emphasis shifted from real economic growth to looting as a method of sustaining the profit margins and growth rates our rulers had become accustomed to. Around 1975 this started to show up in economic statistics as continued growth in income for the top U.S. earners, with "stagnant" a.k.a. frozen incomes for the lowest earners. At the top end of the scale, a mighty, towering peak concealed in aggregate statistics for the "top 10%" kept rising like a rocket. 1980 saw the last nails driven into the coffin of the American Dream for all but the top 15-20% of earners, with the installation of the Reagan Administration and a formal national policy of redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich by means of "trickle down" a.k.a. "voodoo" economics. Not sure they will make it through to the list, but I will attach some amusing graphs. See also http://lcurve.org for an income distribution graph that will shock anyone who has not seen it yet - that's a promise. Same graphs here: http://pilobilus.net/xfer/class-warfare.jpg http://pilobilus.net/xfer/productivity-versus-wages-1.jpg http://pilobilus.net/xfer/real-family-income.jpg If politics is the dynamic process of aggregate power in a society, and money is power, then U.S. politics as presented to the public is a giant scam supporting the process illustrated above. And nothing else. :o/

Razer

9:12 p.m.

On 09/02/2017 12:41 AM, grarpamp wrote (b/c the original poster is shitcanned at the server):

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\0xd: Yeah, humans are both the cause and the cure. The major source of inadequacy in THIS population (crypto-anarchists) is the failure to examine why the 60's failed to produce the revolution it desired. It had love, peace, and an awesome soundtrack -- yet it failed.

What makes this troll think the 60s failed to produce it's revolution? 'Any time you walk into a store and see something advertised as "Psychedelic" YOU KNOW the 60s had an effect on America.' ~Frank Zappa (paraphrased) The troll is operating under the assumption it was going to be a COMMIE ree-vol-lewshun or sumpthin'. Speaking of the 60s, Commie Ree-vol-lewshuns, etc... Weather Underground Members Speak Out on the Media, Imperialism and Solidarity in the Age of Trump Interviews By Dahr Jamail August 30 2017, TruthOut: http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/41746-weather-underground-speak-out-on-th... It ain't over till the fat pig squeals... One like this. Photo: Czechago pig takes an swing at a NY TImes photog. Democratic Convention 1968

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60s quite possibly... Too much drugs, violence, disorganization... And unencrypted tappable mail, phone, bank lines...

Razer

9:25 p.m.

PS. The dirty fucking hippies were right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8964iLV2M6w A rant originally uploaded by joeyess on Mar 17, 2009 "This is a rant about the greed that permeates the American political landscape. In fact the very core of who we are as a nation and a people. Until we re-regulate our glorious corporate overlords, our condition -the Human Condition- in this country and on this planet remains in the hands of a select group of sociopathic plutocrats that care nothing of their nation and only about their personal fortunes. Self appointed Masters of the Universe who don't seem to realize that their gene pool has been diminished and dulled by decades of greed, avarice and a sense of entitlement. All born on 3rd base, swearing they hit a triple. We Were Right. They will devour themselves. My only hope is that the rest of us survive the feast. ~Joeyess “There’s a black granite wall in Washington DC that bears 58,260 names on it. All of those whose names that are carved on that wall are dead. For what? Freedom? “If this country had listened when kids were screaming to stop that slaughter, that wall would have been one hell of a lot shorter. “Yet we as a nation still wage wars of choice. Wars encouraged by plutocrats who never have to fight them. “Peace is never discussed. Peace has somehow become a perjorative. “Peace is no perjorative. Peace is essential to the survival of the human race. And those who advocate for war are a dangerous and fearful group who should be marginalized and disavowed. “War is always the last choice. The dirty fucking hippies … were right. “Now the oceans have been rising. The polar ice is melting at alarming rates. The climate is changing in irreversible ways. Our survival as a species on this planet is on a precipice. “The science on this is clear. Humans are now in trouble. Because of our reckless stewardship of what we dominated, we have polluted this fragile jewel that hangs in space – our only home. “The food we buy is contaminated. The toys we give our children as presents for Christmas are tainted with poisons. The water we drink is rife with carcinogens. The fish in our seas, lakes and rivers are so full of mercury that it’s only recommended that we eat them once per week. “We have now come face to face with our own extinction. “I hate to say ‘I told you so,’ but the dirty fucking hippies … were right. “We’ve elected sociopath after sociopath for the last 30 years, to every level of government. – many of them slaves to corporate parasites that gorge themselves at the public trough, while the most vulnerable people in our society – the sick, the young, and the elderly – go wanting. “Billions of dollars of profits are being snitched up at the expense and suffering of our neighbors by the jackals that comprise our pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies. Both of which pipe their diagnostic wisdom and their fake concern right into our homes via TV and radio commercials. “These legal drug dealers now sell their wares with impunity. And the insurance gamblers perform a slick game of three-card monte right in our living rooms. “Most of these drugs have a list of caveats that would make even the most dishonest used car salesman blush. And the insurance hustlers change the rules of the game just when it’s time to pay up – profiting from the suffering and pain and others, profiting from human frailty. “Universal healthcare? ‘It’s too expensive,’ we’re told. Gasbags talking heads on TV and radio have been complicit in this deception, while being handsomely compensated for their assistance. “I’ll say it again: the dirty fucking hippies … were right. “Big box discount stores descend upon small towns in America like alien ships, filled with cheap products bought at low prices from countries that pay their workers slave wages. Plutocrats love this business model! “Mom and Pop shops can’t compete with prices set by these huge corporate parasites and, to no one’s surprise, many small businesses in these tiny hamlets fail, leaving small towns filled with empty storefronts and even, in some cases, forcing these same small business operators to go to work for the very people that ruined their livelihoods. “Small-town America is subsequently decimated by this invasion. Often helpless in stopping it. “Wall Street has cannibalized itself. Still hungry, feeling the pangs of their greed, they’ve now come to the government for their daily meal. And still, without a hint of irony, a spokesman for this ravenous tribe mounts his soapbox and has the temerity to rail against the ‘evils of Socialism’. “Turns out the Socialism is for them. The Capitalism is for us. “Abbie Hoffman once baited these banksters by throwing cash onto the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. To no one’s astonishment, they demonstrated their insatiable greed. The gluttons couldn’t help themselves – they stopped trading, got on their knees, and swept up the free loot. “Wall Street should have been reined in long ago. “I’ll say it again: The dirty fucking hippies … were right!” On 09/02/2017 02:12 PM, Razer wrote:

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On 09/02/2017 12:41 AM, grarpamp wrote (b/c the original poster is shitcanned at the server):

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\0xd: Yeah, humans are both the cause and the cure. The major source of inadequacy in THIS population (crypto-anarchists) is the failure to examine why the 60's failed to produce the revolution it desired. It had love, peace, and an awesome soundtrack -- yet it failed.

What makes this troll think the 60s failed to produce it's revolution?

'Any time you walk into a store and see something advertised as "Psychedelic" YOU KNOW the 60s had an effect on America.' ~Frank Zappa (paraphrased)

The troll is operating under the assumption it was going to be a COMMIE ree-vol-lewshun or sumpthin'.

Speaking of the 60s, Commie Ree-vol-lewshuns, etc...

Weather Underground Members Speak Out on the Media, Imperialism and Solidarity in the Age of Trump

Interviews By Dahr Jamail August 30 2017, TruthOut: http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/41746-weather-underground-speak-out-on-th...

It ain't over till the fat pig squeals...

One like this.

Photo: Czechago pig takes an swing at a NY TImes photog. Democratic Convention 1968

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60s quite possibly... Too much drugs, violence, disorganization... And unencrypted tappable mail, phone, bank lines...

grarpamp

3 Sep 3 Sep

1:06 a.m.

A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

Razer

1:52 a.m.

On 09/02/2017 06:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:

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Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

Some of the brightest luminaries of the time took L. Like Richard Feynman, Alan Watts (who had some really BAD things to say about TeeVee and indoctrination... the kind of indoctrination LSD can eradicate with guidance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmBymKXgrV4), and Jean-Paul Sartre Shortlist: https://thethirdwave.co/famous-people-psychedelics/ It was in civilian circulation as an adjunct to psychotherapy for alcoholism (and MDMA, a methamphetamine derivative with psychedelic properties inferior to LSD, but easier to produce, is currently in use for PTSD treatment and about to be 'normalized'.)... It worked for Bill W, the guy who founded AA, when he was in psychotherapy. It worked so well that all the stats kept were expunged leaving only the fact that there were such studies done.. It 'worked' for a lot of people, who had goals in it's usage, and your 'hobbled' bullshit, just like the everlasting BS trope about Pot making people unmotivated and apathetic... Well, they were that way to start with. The ONLY drugs that FORCE change, are ones the petrochemical-pharmaceutical industry 'cooks'. Carlos Santana, "Tripper", on that.

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“I always tell people there’s a big difference between drugs, which man makes, and medicine, which Mother Earth makes. There’s a big distinction there. I think they should legalize medicine and they should outlaw drugs. Anheuser-Busch is a drug; cigarettes are a drug. Anything that imprisons you is a drug; anything that liberates you is medicine."

He was tripping here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBG6IaSQCpU He said he expected to go on 12 hours later but the schedule changed. Those faces he was making? He said the neck of the guitar was turning into a snake and he was trying to get it to 'hold still'. The performance is STILL electrifying almost 50 years later. He never missed a lick, not a note out of time or off-tune. Ps... About that "revolutin" thang. Now go fuck yourself and your high horse too. Rr

grarpamp

2:04 a.m.

Hobbled is distinctly descriptive. If one gets up and acts, even if in limited time luminary fashion, that's less than abjectly hobbled. Now, out... to ride me high horse in plainly hobbled fashion ;) Didn't Paul Revere ride horses... them effin rebels.

No

11:26 a.m.

https://libcom.org/library/poverty-hip-life A pro-situ critique of "hippie" life written by Contradiction in April 1972. Best critique I've read so far on the 60's hippie culture. On 09/03/2017 04:04 AM, grarpamp wrote:

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Hobbled is distinctly descriptive. If one gets up and acts, even if in limited time luminary fashion, that's less than abjectly hobbled. Now, out... to ride me high horse in plainly hobbled fashion ;) Didn't Paul Revere ride horses... them effin rebels.

Steve Kinney

11:05 p.m.

On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:

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A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a special relationship with LSD: I got microdosed twice a week for six weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me whatever the fuck I am today. A few years later I thought I was taking LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment. Never underestimate the power of the psychedelics: Our de facto masters don't, and that is why LSD is on the very short list of illegal drugs not readily available to anyone who goes looking. Everybody who's hip to the jive /says/ they can get acid, but ask if it's real and they look at their shoes and mumble. MDMA is the only other example that comes to mind at the moment, and it is seriously prohibited for the same reasons as LSD: Its effect on the individual users' cognitive and emotional development, and potential aggregate impact on social and political norms, is Not Wanted: Better every American who is willing and able should be using heroin - which BTW is typically included in the fake MDMA that is readily available everywhere in the U.S. Once upon a time, a misplaced decimal point in a report received by the CIA made it appear that the Soviet researchers had ordered hundreds of thousands of doses of LSD from its sole source, Sandoz. Nobody at CIA had heard of LSD, but the literature indicated that it was believed to have unique potentials for research and therapeutic purposes. This made the huge order from Russia look very significant. The propaganda meme of "Communist Brainwashing" was still current as an explanation for U.S. prisoners in North Korea confessing to war crimes. In a strange example of blowback, this myth prompted the CIA to attempt to duplicate "brainwashing" themselves. In the 1950s, LSD was being studied by psychiatrists and psychologists who believed it could produce breakthroughs in treatment of intractable mental illnesses. Russia's supposedly HUGE order for LSD made it appear that they had found a very important practical application for it, maybe even as a tool for "brainwashing." So the CIA cut a deal with Sandoz: They placed an even larger order themselves, as part of an agreement that Sandoz would sell exclusively to the CIA. This is how the MKULTRA we know and love was born. The spooks were up to their ears in acid and had no idea what it was for, so they started giving LSD to a broad cross section of people in various situations just to see what would happen, and unleashed all the Mad Scientists they could interest in the subject with carte blanche to do whatever it took to find out what LSD does and how to weaponize it. It turned out that the only significant military application for LSD was as a disabling agent producing temporary confusion, disorientation and loss of focus on structured tasks. Pharmacological research beginning with the study of LSD eventually yielded a family of nerve agents that produce instant, persistent paranoid psychosis: BZ, DZ and others which are still in the inventories of various services. Academics employed by the MKULTRA program through front organizations included Tim Leary and Richard Alpert, who did the now classic studies defining the "psychedelic effect." Long story short, the LSD experience can permanently affect a person's subjective frame of reference, moving it in the direction of empathy, compassion and creativity. Worst of all, from an intelligence service viewpoint, LSD can cause indoctrinated neurotic complexes to collapse "of their own accord." So LSD turned out to be worse than useless to the CIA: The psychedelic effect works directly against the mission profile loosely described as "brainwashing," at every scale from individual targets to whole national populations. By the mid-1960s a decision was taken to actively suppress the use of LSD, and soon after batches of LSD poisoned with nerve agents similar to those mentioned above made their way into underground supply chains. The full spectrum of domestic propaganda assets were engaged to assure the successful demonization of LSD. The last time I checked, simple possession of LSD was a Federal felony carrying a minimum mandatory 10 year prison sentence. One should not over-estimate the beneficial impacts of LSD: It is no panacea. Users whose "set and setting" for the LSD experience is escapist thrill-seeking usually realize little or no measurable benefit, no matter how much they use or how often. But in the hands of people already committed to self examination - or so oriented by structured activities such as religious services or psychotherapy while "tripping" - LSD works like dynamite: It clears massive obstacles in one go. Unlike dynamite, it does so safely then "plants your feet back firmly on the ground." But what has been seen can not be unseen, and once forced open the doors of perception never quite completely close again. Shamans, including the actual Siberian ones and the working mystics of other "primitive" cultures, have understood and used the psychedelic effect for as long as anything recognizable as religion has existed. LSD only happens to be the all around best psychedelic drug discovered to date. The "great cultural revolution" of the 1960s was strongly influenced, if not actually set in motion, by LSD. Leary became an evangelist of a sort, and systematically "turned on" as many influential people as he could - actors, musicians, artists, writers, etc. - with an focus on those who would best be able to spread the gospel of chemical liberation to others in those trades. He was not alone in this effort: Sidney Gottleib, the infamous founder of the MKULTRA program, took LSD "hundreds of times" and personally recommended it to business and political leaders as a performance enhancing drug. If you want to promote peace, love. brotherhood, etc., you could do worse than giving people some LSD to play with. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxbXu0sE9vk When a monkey gazes into a mirror, no wise philosopher looks back. LSD won't make an idiot into a genius, or (all by itself) turn a self defeating neurotic personality around. But by definition nobody has ever been "hobbled" by psychedelics, and more than a few users have found themselves looking at the shattered remnants of their own mental and emotional chains lying on the ground, and walked away from them.

jim bell

11:34 p.m.

On Sunday, September 3, 2017, 4:07:00 PM PDT, Steve Kinney wrote: On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:

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A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

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As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a special relationship with LSD: I got microdosed twice a week for six weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me whatever the fuck I am today. A few years later I thought I was taking LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.[end of quote]

Check out the movie "Jacob's Ladder", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJztRnDxdM8 Movie trailer. http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.h... BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram. I've read that the 'trip' lasts 3 days. The US Military experimented with BZ in the 1950's, in a project called "Operation Blue Skies". http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.h... Jim Bell [For some reason, this idiot Yahoo mail client isn't letting me convert these URL's into clickable links.]

Steve Kinney

4 Sep 4 Sep

12:06 a.m.

On 09/03/2017 07:34 PM, jim bell wrote:

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On Sunday, September 3, 2017, 4:07:00 PM PDT, Steve Kinney wrote:

On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:

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A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

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As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era

[ etc ]

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Check out the movie "Jacob's Ladder", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJztRnDxdM8 Movie trailer.

I saw it at a theater; a NamVet friend got a group together to go. He said something very much like that really happened, and I'm not inclined to doubt it.

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http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.h...

BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram. I've read that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.

The US Military experimented with BZ in the 1950's, in a project called "Operation Blue Skies".

http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.h...

Back around 1979 or 80, one of my best friends and her son went stark raving paranoid psychotic overnight. Literally, they woke up insane, closed the shop, boarded up their windows and prepared for the worst - locked into a state of panic the whole time. At that time, Carolyn was running a head shop near the University of Central Florida, and a series of laws had recently been passed over the course of a few months in an effort to shut down head shops in Florida, with an apparent emphasis on hers: The first to be raided on every day the next law kicked in. The other well known head shop in town was never raided. It did not open on the mornings of the raids, but some of Carolyn's stock did appear on its shelves in the weeks following. Also at that time, Lockheed Martin was building a missile plant less than a mile down the road from Carolyn's head shop. On the cross-corner of the same intersection, a subdivision destined to house many of the missile plant's employees broke ground. Caroline never called her establishment an Infoshop, but it was exactly that, loaded to the gunnels with anarchist literature and propaganda. On slow days the stone gorgeous fucking brilliant hippie chick who ran it was always happy to talk politics. So, given Carolyn's location, that store had to go. Carolyn eventually recovered. Her son did not. In all fairness he was starting to go nuts on his own - family history on his father's side - but whatever nerve agent was used did him no favors either. Every now and then when an "inconvenient" person kills themselves or gets themselves shot, information on their behavior in the days leading up to the event really does make me wonder. Carolyn believed that she was supposed to commit suicide, because someone had made it a point just a couple of days earlier to assure that there would be a loaded gun in the house. :o/

Zenaan Harkness

2:43 a.m.

On Sun, Sep 03, 2017 at 11:34:01PM +0000, jim bell wrote:

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On Sunday, September 3, 2017, 4:07:00 PM PDT, Steve Kinney wrote:

On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:

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A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

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As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a special relationship with LSD: I got microdosed twice a week for six weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me whatever the fuck I am today. A few years later I thought I was taking LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.[end of quote]

Check out the movie "Jacob's Ladder", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJztRnDxdM8 Movie trailer. http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.h...

BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram. I've read that the 'trip' lasts 3 days. The US Military experimented with BZ in the 1950's, in a project called "Operation Blue Skies". http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.h...

Jim Bell [For some reason, this idiot Yahoo mail client isn't letting me convert these URL's into clickable links.]

WHAOH, DUDE! I can read your emails :D :) Those couple blank lines really work - thanks for that, really appreciated :) (And BTW, at least in my MUA, I can click plain links no worries - straight up in $BROWSER_OF_CHOICE - some X terminals are rather featureful.)

Razer

3 p.m.

On 09/03/2017 04:34 PM, jim bell wrote:

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BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram. I've read that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.

... says someone who never took STP. A 3 day peak and a total burn out. BZ was intended to be an INCAPACITATING AGENT, not a psychotropic. Everyone knew that by 1968 and very few people actually ever used it. Rr Ps. I have problems with MDMA as an 'analogue' to LSD. MDMA is methamphetamine based and although it exhibits certain psychedeic-experience-like properties, it's still Meth, and the long term effect of it's use, if not as dramatic (usually), IS similar.

Steve Kinney

8:06 p.m.

On 09/04/2017 11:00 AM, Razer wrote:

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On 09/03/2017 04:34 PM, jim bell wrote:

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BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram. I've read that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.

... says someone who never took STP. A 3 day peak and a total burn out. BZ was intended to be an INCAPACITATING AGENT, not a psychotropic. Everyone knew that by 1968 and very few people actually ever used it.

Rr

Surveys of the literature have found no descriptions of "bad trips" resulting from administration of LSD in a clinical setting, which included subjects with diagnosed mental illnesses, and studies using very large doses. The classic "bad trip" first appeared in the wild right on time to support the Federally sponsored full-saturation domestic propaganda campaign against LSD. Did the CIA murder Art Linkletter's daughter? Maybe not her in particular, on purpose. But whoever made the alleged "LSD" she took before diving out of a high window did. and her suicide was a huge stroke of luck for the folks tasked to sell the public on a completely false version of what LSD is and does.

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Ps. I have problems with MDMA as an 'analogue' to LSD. MDMA is methamphetamine based and although it exhibits certain psychedeic-experience-like properties, it's still Meth, and the long term effect of it's use, if not as dramatic (usually), IS similar.

When hearings were held to determine what schedule to put MDMA on, clinical researchers who testified described it was uniquely useful; they found it got stubbornly uncommunicative patients talking, and enabled therapists to build useful rapport with them very quickly. Their verdict was unanimous: This is Good Shit, we wants it yes we does. Then the DEA guise gave their testimony, mostly a recitation of War On Drugs propaganda talking points originally created for LSD, and so MDMA was put on Schedule I. MDMA has been described as an "empathogen," knocking down social anxiety and replacing it, temporarily, with trust, confidence, and a (transient) sense of strong social bonding with "just whoever happens to be there." I speculate that the Feds chose to suppress MDMA both because of unwanted macro scale social impacts, and because its obvious intelligence tradecraft applications (elicitation of information, agent development & recruitment) do not belong in "private" hands. Today's "ecstasy" a.k.a. X contains no MDMA but typically does contain amphetamine, heroin, and one or more "designer" drugs to tweak the experience this way or that. Mixing that crap with alcohol can knock a person right down (this I have seen in real life) and respiratory arrest sometimes follows. :o/

Razer

5 Sep 5 Sep

4:16 p.m.

On 09/04/2017 01:06 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

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On 09/04/2017 11:00 AM, Razer wrote:

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On 09/03/2017 04:34 PM, jim bell wrote:

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BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram. I've read that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.

... says someone who never took STP. A 3 day peak and a total burn out. BZ was intended to be an INCAPACITATING AGENT, not a psychotropic. Everyone knew that by 1968 and very few people actually ever used it.

Rr

Surveys of the literature have found no descriptions of "bad trips" resulting from administration of LSD

STP was a whole 'nother thing. The 'trip' was described somewhere (I think Abbie Hoffman in Revolution for the Hell of It) as 'long and juiceless' ...

...

in a clinical setting, which included subjects with diagnosed mental illnesses, and studies using very large doses. The classic "bad trip" first appeared in the wild right on time to support the Federally sponsored full-saturation domestic propaganda campaign against LSD.

Did the CIA murder Art Linkletter's daughter? Maybe not her in particular, on purpose. But whoever made the alleged "LSD" she took before diving out of a high window did. and her suicide was a huge stroke of luck for the folks tasked to sell the public on a completely false version of what LSD is and does.

...
Ps. I have problems with MDMA as an 'analogue' to LSD. MDMA is methamphetamine based and although it exhibits certain psychedeic-experience-like properties, it's still Meth, and the long term effect of it's use, if not as dramatic (usually), IS similar. When hearings were held to determine what schedule to put MDMA on, clinical researchers who testified described it was uniquely useful; they found it got stubbornly uncommunicative patients talking, and enabled therapists to build useful rapport with them very quickly. Their verdict was unanimous: This is Good Shit, we wants it yes we does. Then the DEA guise gave their testimony, mostly a recitation of War On Drugs propaganda talking points originally created for LSD, and so MDMA was put on Schedule I.

It's METHAMPHETAMINE, which also has clinical uses. Raving till you chew thru your pacifier and drop from dehydration isn't 'clinical'. Just sayin'. I knew the people who distrubuted MDA on the East Coast in the 60s and MDA had the same deleterious effects from long term usage. AFAICT LSD had no effects that would be noted by psychologists or behavioral therapists as 'deleterious'. By 1969 or 1970, or 71, or so, most of what was passed off as LSD was either ALD-52 or MDA, or some other designer drug. When LSD became illegal in the US not only did the feds immediately clamp down on all the organic resources such as Ergotamine Tartrate, indole, and other items necessary for LSD production (A special # Sylvania blue bulb was necessary at one point in it's manufacture. IMAGINE what would happen if a lighting house received an oddball order for a few), as was noted at the time in the underground newspapers, many of the supply houses WERE THE FEDS, and they used the mailing lists quite effectively to shut down labs. You might want to listen to this... From one of Owsley's close personal friends, on his passing. March 15 2011 Travus T. Hipp Morning News & Commentary: Owsley, The Man Who 'Changed The Minds' Of An Entire Generation... Literally... Passes https://archive.org/details/tth_110315 Owsley wasn't a chemist you know... He was a speedfreak. His GF was an organic chemist, and as is so succinctly pointed out here, what made Owsley the 'name you could trust' in LSD, was he actually tried the shit before he sold it. Most of what was passed off as L was made by scumbags not far removed from the Mafia (Brotherhood of Eternal Light at their former missile silo in was it Nebraska?). The Mafia LUVS chemicals. Easy to transport unlike bulky stinky weed, and the one thing I noted in my experience in NY, when ever you got around L dealers, you started seeing guns, and people who looked A LOT like feds.

...

MDMA has been described as an "empathogen," knocking down social anxiety and replacing it, temporarily, with trust, confidence, and a (transient) sense of strong social bonding with "just whoever happens to be there."

As you described it, "empathogen,", it has certain SPECIFIC effects, just like every other ordinary pharmaceutical, and just because you feel all lovey dovey DOES NOT NOR HAS IT EVER MEANT, you 'explored your inner space'. The phrase "Adjunct to Psychotherapy" come to mind. Tripping with a bunch of people who are just like wow I love you groovy then they go back to my day job slicing throats at some corporate hack job or another, doesn't, and WHERE IS THE "GUIDANCE"? It's the hedonists leading the hedonists down the rosy path to... I dunno. Running into a fire at "burning man" or some stupid thing like that.

...

I speculate that the Feds chose to suppress MDMA both because of unwanted macro scale social impacts, and because its obvious intelligence tradecraft applications (elicitation of information, agent development & recruitment) do not belong in "private" hands.

Torture (in 1st case), and Social engineering/subterfuge (2nd) is cheaper and just as "reliable".

...

Today's "ecstasy" a.k.a. X contains no MDMA but typically does contain amphetamine, heroin, and one or more "designer" drugs to tweak the experience this way or that.

Gil Scott-Heron on Street Corner Chemistry. A short poem precedes: https://youtu.be/78tTKTkz778?t=19m6s I figure, even in 1968, only about half of what I ever consumed was actually LSD, and my bottom line is I don't know why anyone would bother with chemicals today when you can purchase 'mushrooom kits' and the seed houses no longer give a fuck if you're buying Hawaiian Wood Rose pods or Salvia in bulk, etc.

...

Mixing that crap with alcohol can knock a person right down (this I have seen in real life) and respiratory arrest sometimes follows.

:o/

The West Coast "Thing", which I never could understand, was Wine by the gallon jug and L. No one ever suffered respiratory arrest. Rr

...

Mirimir

4 Sep 4 Sep

1:47 a.m.

On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...

On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:

...
A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a special relationship with LSD: I got microdosed twice a week for six weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me whatever the fuck I am today. A few years later I thought I was taking LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.

Woah. So do you remember, back in 1972, what you thought was happening? And yes, that acid come on is unmistakable ;)

...

Never underestimate the power of the psychedelics: Our de facto masters don't, and that is why LSD is on the very short list of illegal drugs not readily available to anyone who goes looking. Everybody who's hip to the jive /says/ they can get acid, but ask if it's real and they look at their shoes and mumble. ...

Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc. I still have some from the 80s. I sealed lots of blotter in evacuated glass ampules. It's been frozen since, at -20°C or less. On dry ice when I've moved. I last tried some about ten years ago, and it was fine. <SNIP>

grarpamp

2:19 a.m.

On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...

Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

Though not as popular a poison, there always seem to be a small number of well regarded vendors in such markets. A little disposable crypto cash and a maildrop is all it takes to run your own tests.

Mirimir

2:34 a.m.

On 09/03/2017 03:19 PM, grarpamp wrote:

...

On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

Though not as popular a poison, there always seem to be a small number of well regarded vendors in such markets. A little disposable crypto cash and a maildrop is all it takes to run your own tests.

Yes. I recall a few blog posts about such tests :)

Zenaan Harkness

2:51 a.m.

On Sun, Sep 03, 2017 at 03:34:24PM -1100, Mirimir wrote:

...

On 09/03/2017 03:19 PM, grarpamp wrote:

...
On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

Though not as popular a poison, there always seem to be a small number of well regarded vendors in such markets. A little disposable crypto cash and a maildrop is all it takes to run your own tests.

Yes. I recall a few blog posts about such tests :)

O M G, you guys are humans doing things humans tend to do ?!? Naughty naughty!

Steve Kinney

5:15 a.m.

On 09/03/2017 09:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...

On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...
On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:

...
A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a special relationship with LSD: I got microdosed twice a week for six weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me whatever the fuck I am today. A few years later I thought I was taking LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.

Woah. So do you remember, back in 1972, what you thought was happening?

And yes, that acid come on is unmistakable ;)

I was told at the time that the medication in question contained a "stimulant" and that it might make me feel "funny," but not to worry about it, it would wear off in a few hours and I would eventually get used to it. I did not so much get used to it, as start really looking forward to it. When the second batch arrived, click, nothing. No effect. Along about that time I started to question literally everything, including the nature of reality itself. I can't say the experience affected my core values - for instance I was already dead set against war, regardless of excuses offered, and got in trouble from time to time for not bothering to observe "color lines" on the playground etc. But I suspect the LSD did have a radicalizing effect, in the literal sense of that word: It directed my attention to the fundamentals that define a person's life and the structure of events in the larger world.

John Newman

5 Sep 5 Sep

4:54 p.m.

...

On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...
On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a special relationship with LSD: I got microdosed twice a week for six weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me whatever the fuck I am today. A few years later I thought I was taking LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.

Woah. So do you remember, back in 1972, what you thought was happening?

And yes, that acid come on is unmistakable ;)

...
Never underestimate the power of the psychedelics: Our de facto masters don't, and that is why LSD is on the very short list of illegal drugs not readily available to anyone who goes looking. Everybody who's hip to the jive /says/ they can get acid, but ask if it's real and they look at their shoes and mumble. ...

Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also. These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. Better to source privately if possible.

...

I still have some from the 80s. I sealed lots of blotter in evacuated glass ampules. It's been frozen since, at -20°C or less. On dry ice when I've moved. I last tried some about ten years ago, and it was fine.

<SNIP>

Steve Kinney

7:38 p.m.

On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:

...

...
On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...
On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

...

...
Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. Better to source privately if possible.

Simple rule: Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they have not already. "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors. Same shit, different decade. :o/

Mirimir

6 Sep 6 Sep

1:14 a.m.

On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...

On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:

...
...
On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...
On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

...
...
Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. Better to source privately if possible.

Simple rule: Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they have not already.

That is of course prudent advice :) However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like. See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds. Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense, but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

...

"Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors. Same shit, different decade.

:o/

Marina Brown

1:56 a.m.

On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...

On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:

...
...
On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...
On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

...
...
Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. Better to source privately if possible.

Simple rule: Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they have not already.

That is of course prudent advice :)

However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.

See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.

Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense, but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people taking is 10 hits.

...

...
"Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors. Same shit, different decade.

:o/

Razer

2:19 a.m.

On 09/05/2017 06:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:

...

On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:

...
...
On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: > A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. > Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". > More time on "revolutin". > Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. > Crypto rave, on.

...
...
Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. Better to source privately if possible. Simple rule: Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they have not already.

That is of course prudent advice :)

However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.

See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.

Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense, but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is ussually 10 micrograms.

I forget what Hoffman's dose was estimated as being, but he was a tripper once a year till the day he died https://www.bikecitizens.net/bikes-and-lsd-what-really-happened-on-bicycle-d.... 10 micrograms wouldn't do a whole lot, unless you eat a lot of paper or gels or whatever. The typical dose was SUPPOSED TO BE 250 - 350 mics... Sandoz standard dosage was 350mics

...

If you did take milligrams it would litterally have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people taking is 10 hits.

I knew a guy who ate a whole sheet of Blue Dot blotter in 1971. One of the last remaining OG STP family (pre-roadie alcoholic street gang) people showed it to him and he just crumpled it up and... . His name was/is George, a straight, slightly effeminate puerto rican kid who had been working a a grocery delivery boy... He showed up one morning at me and my GF's safe house sponsored by Jewish Family Services (until the certified folks could contact the kid's parents or investigate abuse claims as reason not to contact). George ended up with a new persona. Sgt Pepper! He literally affected a brit accent (Ringo). Wore a brass button blazer. Talked in Be-At-Els type rhyme. I lost track of him when I moved to Vt in '73, but ran into him again at Earth People's Park Shattuck Ave house when I first got to California in 1976. He was 'back to earth'; the George I met when he first showed up at my E4th and B Lower East Side slum apartment, but 5 years older (20 or so).

...

...
...
"Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors. Same shit, different decade.

:o/

Same shit. Different decade. For every innerspace cosmonaut there's thousands of Hedonists who just want to get high and no 'learning experience' is expected or wanted. Rr

Mirimir

2:39 a.m.

On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:

...

On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:

...
...
On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: > A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. > Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". > More time on "revolutin". > Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. > Crypto rave, on.

...
...
Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. Better to source privately if possible.

Simple rule: Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they have not already.

That is of course prudent advice :)

However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.

See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.

Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense, but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people taking is 10 hits.

Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer, you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol, in sealed glass break-neck ampules. So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff, before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :) My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.

...

...
...
"Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors. Same shit, different decade.

:o/

Marina Brown

3:50 a.m.

On 09/05/2017 10:39 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...

On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:

...
...
On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: > > >> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: >> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. >> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". >> More time on "revolutin". >> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. >> Crypto rave, on.

...
...
Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. Better to source privately if possible.

Simple rule: Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they have not already.

That is of course prudent advice :)

However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.

See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.

Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense, but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people taking is 10 hits.

Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer, you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol, in sealed glass break-neck ampules.

So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff, before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :)

My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.

I got the numbers wrong. I had a friend in college who had to take 10 hits just to get off. He was a Cellist who loved to play heavy metal on his cello. I guess not so bad. ....My longest trip was 3 days. ....On Jimson Weed.

...

...
...
...
"Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors. Same shit, different decade.

:o/

Mirimir

4:13 a.m.

On 09/05/2017 04:50 PM, Marina Brown wrote:

...

On 09/05/2017 10:39 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:

...
> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote: > >> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: >> >> >>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: >>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. >>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". >>> More time on "revolutin". >>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. >>> Crypto rave, on.

...
> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc. >

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. Better to source privately if possible.

Simple rule: Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they have not already.

That is of course prudent advice :)

However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.

See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.

Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense, but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people taking is 10 hits.

Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer, you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol, in sealed glass break-neck ampules.

So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff, before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :)

My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.

I got the numbers wrong.

I had a friend in college who had to take 10 hits just to get off. He was a Cellist who loved to play heavy metal on his cello.

What a trip :) Have you heard/seen Seemann,[0] by Apocalyptica with Nina Hagen? And then, there's Nina on acid on Letterman.[1] 0) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAlVF7lYKL8 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEGsTUY8YQo

...

I guess not so bad. ....My longest trip was 3 days. ....On Jimson Weed.

Yeah. I tried smoking that once, but nothing. So it goes.

...

...
...
...
...
"Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors. Same shit, different decade.

:o/

Marina Brown

5:44 a.m.

On 09/06/2017 12:13 AM, Mirimir wrote:

...

On 09/05/2017 04:50 PM, Marina Brown wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 10:39 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:

...
On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote: > > >> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote: >> >>> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: >>>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. >>>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". >>>> More time on "revolutin". >>>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. >>>> Crypto rave, on.

>> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc. >> > > On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also. > > These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. > Better to source privately if possible.

Simple rule: Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they have not already.

That is of course prudent advice :)

However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.

See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.

Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense, but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people taking is 10 hits.

Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer, you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol, in sealed glass break-neck ampules.

So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff, before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :)

My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.

I got the numbers wrong.

I had a friend in college who had to take 10 hits just to get off. He was a Cellist who loved to play heavy metal on his cello.

What a trip :)

Have you heard/seen Seemann,[0] by Apocalyptica with Nina Hagen? And then, there's Nina on acid on Letterman.[1]

0) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAlVF7lYKL8 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEGsTUY8YQo

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I guess not so bad. ....My longest trip was 3 days. ....On Jimson Weed.

Yeah. I tried smoking that once, but nothing. So it goes.

If you want a trip you don't smoke it but it is VERY dangerous. Definitly an ordeal. --- Marina

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"Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors. Same shit, different decade.

:o/

John Newman

11:20 a.m.

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On Sep 5, 2017, at 9:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:

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On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:

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On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:

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On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

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On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". More time on "revolutin". Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. Crypto rave, on.

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Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. Better to source privately if possible.

Simple rule: Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they have not already.

That is of course prudent advice :)

However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.

See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.

There are also test kits, which can at least give you some idea of what you've got ..

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Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense, but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

Whoa! Sounds like the "thumbprint" trips I've heard tales of... I've never gone more than a few hundred mics (a few hits of 150mic shit in 90s)... but I have sat with friends who took mega-doses on more than a few occasions ;)

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"Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors. Same shit, different decade.

:o/

Mirimir

7 Sep 7 Sep

1:11 a.m.

On 09/06/2017 12:20 AM, John Newman wrote:

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On Sep 5, 2017, at 9:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:

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On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:

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On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:

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On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:

On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: > A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed. > Less time hobbled on "psychedelics". > More time on "revolutin". > Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle. > Crypto rave, on.

...
...
Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. Better to source privately if possible.

Simple rule: Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they have not already.

That is of course prudent advice :)

However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.

See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.

There are also test kits, which can at least give you some idea of what you've got ..

Yes, indeed.

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Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense, but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

Whoa! Sounds like the "thumbprint" trips I've heard tales of...

It was just total dumbass. Rule of thumb: Don't dilute your acid while stoned. But it wasn't that much more intense than one milligram, which I'd taken intentionally on occasion. It's just that the peak lasted for about 8-10 hours. Basically, I just sat in a chair, effectively catatonic and non-responsive. Fortunately, people around me knew what had happened. And nobody freaked.

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I've never gone more than a few hundred mics (a few hits of 150mic shit in 90s)... but I have sat with friends who took mega-doses on more than a few occasions ;)

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"Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors. Same shit, different decade.

:o/

Mirimir

3 Sep 3 Sep

1:12 a.m.

On 09/02/2017 10:12 AM, Razer wrote:

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On 09/02/2017 12:41 AM, grarpamp wrote (b/c the original poster is shitcanned at the server):

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\0xd: Yeah, humans are both the cause and the cure. The major source of inadequacy in THIS population (crypto-anarchists) is the failure to examine why the 60's failed to produce the revolution it desired. It had love, peace, and an awesome soundtrack -- yet it failed.

What makes this troll think the 60s failed to produce it's revolution?

'Any time you walk into a store and see something advertised as "Psychedelic" YOU KNOW the 60s had an effect on America.' ~Frank Zappa (paraphrased)

Well, the US did bail on Viet Nam. And casual fucking did become far more popular. And food coops went mainstream. And homosexuality became acceptable. And marijuana is legal in several states. And damn, are the Dead still touring? Or some offshoot/residue, at least?

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The troll is operating under the assumption it was going to be a COMMIE ree-vol-lewshun or sumpthin'.

Soviet efforts aside, hippies were mostly into sex, drugs and music :)

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Speaking of the 60s, Commie Ree-vol-lewshuns, etc...

Weather Underground Members Speak Out on the Media, Imperialism and Solidarity in the Age of Trump

Interviews By Dahr Jamail August 30 2017, TruthOut: http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/41746-weather-underground-speak-out-on-th...

It ain't over till the fat pig squeals...

One like this.

Photo: Czechago pig takes an swing at a NY TImes photog. Democratic Convention 1968

Hey, Trump = Pigasus ;) That always was slaughterhouse humor.

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60s quite possibly... Too much drugs, violence, disorganization... And unencrypted tappable mail, phone, bank lines...

Razer

2:04 a.m.

On 09/02/2017 06:12 PM, Mirimir wrote:

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Hey, Trump = Pigasus ;) That always was slaughterhouse humor.

The CPD said they gave Pigasus to a farm but everyone KNOWS they murdered and bar-b-qued him. Butchers! Assassins! It was 1968. I was seeing the Dems do exactly the same to McCarthy, a REAL antiwar candidate they did to their shill Bernie. They offered us Hubert HUMPhrey... Hillary in a suit, (who just happened to get another criminal, Richard Nixon erected), and there was George Wallace.. the redneck governor of Alabama running as dark horse candidate. I said to myself: "Self! If we're going to have a warmongering racist as prezident, the least we can do is elect one we can point at and say to the rest of the nation: "LOOK AT WTF YOU DID!"." Well it took 50 years or so, but it's come to pass, while prog-libs support the idea that "Antifa" is a terrorist organization that should be destroyed, and then started to LUV Trump as soon as he gave the generals a blank check to kill as many civilians as they like in our warS. The activist side of the mass of counterculture is pretty much gone with the remnants for the most part nihilistic hedonists. McCarthy, in retrospect. I could NEVER imagine Burn-e saying anyhting remotely like this.

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grarpamp
jim bell
John Newman
Marina Brown
Mirimir
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Razer
Steve Kinney
Zenaan Harkness