- cypherpunks@lists.ogf.org

re: Cryptocurrency: Brings Down GovBankCorp
by Punk 20 Jul '19

20 Jul '19

grarpamp wrote: >Bitcoin's price dipped after Trump's negative tweet. correlation is not causation >> as to 'digital cash'* bringing down governments, that's just fantasy. > A digital "cash / currency"... those terms are containers > into which people dump various descriptive words and > capabilities in order to try to define them, you can define 'digital cash' as having the best properties you can wish for - and govcorp will still be able to attack THE USERS more or less easily. Point being, crypto systems by themselves are powerless. >> *cryptocurrencies are not cash AT ALL since they require massive infrastructure > The infrastructure need only do some list of useful things > such as keep accurate ledger, run timely and relatively > inexpensive tx processing, and cost more in distributed > collective defense than any attacker can muster or gain > from offense. "Massive" (which you failed to define) is > not necessarily a requirement. massive infrastructure is the #1 requirement. In order to have 'digital cash' you need foundries, each one costing 5000 million dollars(all of them currently owned by govcorp of course) and a global telecom network. As we all know the global telecom network is the NSA's spying network ususally referred to as 'the interweb'. And to produce the hardware that makes up the interent we need a few 10s or 100s of billions to pay for more foundries, optic fiber and whatnot. THAT is the infrastructure needed for 'digital cash'. Compare that to the costs of gold... > > all depend on ONE unique ledger > > Most cryptocurrencies that utilize a single unique ledger > do so in a redundantly distributed fashion, etc. yes, the ONE ledger is managed in a distributed fashion, but it still is ONE ledger. Well except in things like the lightning network where channels are actually peer to peer. But even if the second layer is more decentralized, it still relies on the base layer acting as a clearinghouse. So there still is a centralized bottleneck. >Unlike N different central "cash" or Gold ledgers where N is the number of accounts you have at such GovCorpBank well that's my point. Systems that require a ledger are centralized by design. The moment you start using a ledger supposefly based on gold you are not using gold anymore. Just 'golden' IOUs. >> even govt paper bills are real cash, they are actually >> decentralized and anonymous. >If those are your exclusive set of words you like to >define "cash" by, then that "cash" works for you. what I mean by 'cash' is a something that doesn't need a middleman. I can pay you using bits of metals, or even physical bills issued by a govt mafia, without needing an internet connection and without anybody knowing that the transaction took place apart from us two. Digital 'cash' does not have those properties. >However "govt paper" implies government exists, which is most certainly not an ideal situation. of course. The drawback of physical bills is that the govt can print tons of them. But apart from that, we can use bills to make transactions that are 'anonymous' and don't go through any central clearinghouse. >And "decentralized", living somewhere between a single point dot and 100% distributed amongst all peers, can have certain risks and mindfulness needed as well. by decentralized I mean that transactions using 'physical tokens' do not need to be recorded in or go through any unique database for them to work. And by the way, that's how barter and money worked since the dawn of history. Banking was a step BACKWARDS. >> Gold and other commodities >That only works within your range of personal travel. yes and? You see, freedom isn't free and there's no 'free lunch'. You can personally manage your own money, or let god's choosen master race do it... >When you start wanting to "transmit" gold, then you have to create transmission systems for physicals and messages, create ledgers, oops, so you're not using gold anymore, as pointed above. >create trust and security systems and etc that can span that distance. So in order to effectively transmit gold, you've essentially created a cryptocurrency system to do so, at which point gold itself can and will likely become moot. lawl, gold would be the source of that currency's value, so not 'moot' at all. Still, such systems are a FAILURE by design. >The real problem is that you created and allowed the wrong cryptocurrency system ie: GovBankCorp as the first such generation of a transmission system. well yes a honest banking system is theoretically possible. But to get one we need to burn down wall street with all the bankers included. Burn them alive. So who's going to do that? >You now have more or less all of the crypto and tools needed to create a far better transmission system. wrong. >Most of humanity does not currently desire to moving society back to your quaint local agrarian communes or whatever it is your aggression is advocating for. what 'agression' are you talking about >Cryptocurrency can work via sneakernet and even by hand calculation... it just becomes extremely slow. lawl - pointless comment. >The minimum general assumption in cryptocurrency is that both electricity and digital communication and computation methods will remain up and generally accessible to everyone. an absurd assumption that stupidly ignores the fact that the digital infrastructure is fully owned by govcorp. Hey, you can't even talk about 'cryptocurrencies' in the 'libertarian' 'cryptography' mailing list. >At which point, so long as society and ultimately human DNA maintains the desire for a "forward" progress that includes electricity comms and compute tech, yeah, techno 'progressive' garbage which you actually do not understand. >GovBankCorp Fiat will remain below Gold which will remain below Cryptocurrency which becomes top dog and moots all others. gold isn't below 'cryptocurrencies' at all. Except in the minds of 'techno' 'optimists' who are useful idiots for the NSA. >Maintain fallbacks in the mix as you wish. But don't be so stupid as to continue to allow GovBankCorp to rule over and keep you in slavery. I'm simply pointing out that your 'digital cash' is worse than gold and that believing that it would 'magically' overthrow governmetn is laughable wishful thinking or worse. >No one ever said crypto was invulnerable to global thermonuclear war, lolwut. Crypto is completely vulnerable to a bunch of peopel being thrown in jail for 'money laundering', a bunch of 'mining farms' being raided, etc etc. > they just said you'll have MUCH bigger problems than worrying about where your crypto, "cash", or gold is. If you're smart, you'll end government before they can reach for the launch keys. yeah and I dont need you and your $5b 'progressive' foundries to tell me that. @InsertNameSpace said: Capitalism cannot thrive with a socialist central banking system, capitalism? The hell is that?. As to the current 'progressive' and 'digital' economic system it works perfectly well with central banking, does it not. >"The United States government is a foreign corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_East_India_Company >Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania once gave a speech endorsing the adoption of the Company's flag by the United States as their national flag. He said to George Washington of Virginia, "While the field of your flag must be new in the details of its design, it need not be entirely new in its elements. There is already in use a flag, I refer to the flag of the East India Company."

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re: Cryptocurrency: Brings Down GovBankCorp
by Punk 20 Jul '19

20 Jul '19

grarpamp wrote: >Bitcoin's price dipped after Trump's negative tweet. correlation is not causation >> as to 'digital cash'* bringing down governments, that's just fantasy. > A digital "cash / currency"... those terms are containers > into which people dump various descriptive words and > capabilities in order to try to define them, you can define 'digital cash' as having the best properties you can wish for - and govcorp will still be able to attack THE USERS more or less easily. Point being, crypto systems by themselves are powerless. >> *cryptocurrencies are not cash AT ALL since they require massive infrastructure > The infrastructure need only do some list of useful things > such as keep accurate ledger, run timely and relatively > inexpensive tx processing, and cost more in distributed > collective defense than any attacker can muster or gain > from offense. "Massive" (which you failed to define) is > not necessarily a requirement. massive infrastructure is the #1 requirement. In order to have 'digital cash' you need foundries, each one costing 5000 million dollars(all of them currently owned by govcorp of course) and a global telecom network. As we all know the global telecom network is the NSA's spying network ususally referred to as 'the interweb'. And to produce the hardware that makes up the interent we need a few 10s or 100s of billions to pay for more foundries, optic fiber and whatnot. THAT is the infrastructure needed for 'digital cash'. Compare that to the costs of gold... > > all depend on ONE unique ledger > > Most cryptocurrencies that utilize a single unique ledger > do so in a redundantly distributed fashion, etc. yes, the ONE ledger is managed in a distributed fashion, but it still is ONE ledger. Well except in things like the lightning network where channels are actually peer to peer. But even if the second layer is more decentralized, it still relies on the base layer acting as a clearinghouse. So there still is a centralized bottleneck. >Unlike N different central "cash" or Gold ledgers where N is the number of accounts you have at such GovCorpBank well that's my point. Systems that require a ledger are centralized by design. The moment you start using a ledger supposefly based on gold you are not using gold anymore. Just 'golden' IOUs. >> even govt paper bills are real cash, they are actually >> decentralized and anonymous. >If those are your exclusive set of words you like to >define "cash" by, then that "cash" works for you. what I mean by 'cash' is a something that doesn't need a middleman. I can pay you using bits of metals, or even physical bills issued by a govt mafia, without needing an internet connection and without anybody knowing that the transaction took place apart from us two. Digital 'cash' does not have those properties. >However "govt paper" implies government exists, which is most certainly not an ideal situation. of course. The drawback of physical bills is that the govt can print tons of them. But apart from that, we can use bills to make transactions that are 'anonymous' and don't go through any central clearinghouse. >And "decentralized", living somewhere between a single point dot and 100% distributed amongst all peers, can have certain risks and mindfulness needed as well. by decentralized I mean that transactions using 'physical tokens' do not need to be recorded in or go through any unique database for them to work. And by the way, that's how barter and money worked since the dawn of history. Banking was a step BACKWARDS. >> Gold and other commodities >That only works within your range of personal travel. yes and? You see, freedom isn't free and there's no 'free lunch'. You can personally manage your own money, or let god's choosen master race do it... >When you start wanting to "transmit" gold, then you have to create transmission systems for physicals and messages, create ledgers, oops, so you're not using gold anymore, as pointed above. >create trust and security systems and etc that can span that distance. So in order to effectively transmit gold, you've essentially created a cryptocurrency system to do so, at which point gold itself can and will likely become moot. lawl, gold would be the source of that currency's value, so not 'moot' at all. Still, such systems are a FAILURE by design. >The real problem is that you created and allowed the wrong cryptocurrency system ie: GovBankCorp as the first such generation of a transmission system. well yes a honest banking system is theoretically possible. But to get one we need to burn down wall street with all the bankers included. Burn them alive. So who's going to do that? >You now have more or less all of the crypto and tools needed to create a far better transmission system. wrong. >Most of humanity does not currently desire to moving society back to your quaint local agrarian communes or whatever it is your aggression is advocating for. what 'agression' are you talking about >Cryptocurrency can work via sneakernet and even by hand calculation... it just becomes extremely slow. lawl - pointless comment. >The minimum general assumption in cryptocurrency is that both electricity and digital communication and computation methods will remain up and generally accessible to everyone. an absurd assumption that stupidly ignores the fact that the digital infrastructure is fully owned by govcorp. Hey, you can't even talk about 'cryptocurrencies' in the 'libertarian' 'cryptography' mailing list. >At which point, so long as society and ultimately human DNA maintains the desire for a "forward" progress that includes electricity comms and compute tech, yeah, techno 'progressive' garbage which you actually do not understand. >GovBankCorp Fiat will remain below Gold which will remain below Cryptocurrency which becomes top dog and moots all others. gold isn't below 'cryptocurrencies' at all. Except in the minds of 'techno' 'optimists' who are useful idiots for the NSA. >Maintain fallbacks in the mix as you wish. But don't be so stupid as to continue to allow GovBankCorp to rule over and keep you in slavery. I'm simply pointing out that your 'digital cash' is worse than gold and that believing that it would 'magically' overthrow governmetn is laughable wishful thinking or worse. >No one ever said crypto was invulnerable to global thermonuclear war, lolwut. Crypto is completely vulnerable to a bunch of peopel being thrown in jail for 'money laundering', a bunch of 'mining farms' being raided, etc etc. > they just said you'll have MUCH bigger problems than worrying about where your crypto, "cash", or gold is. If you're smart, you'll end government before they can reach for the launch keys. yeah and I dont need you and your $5b 'progressive' foundries to tell me that. @InsertNameSpace said: Capitalism cannot thrive with a socialist central banking system, capitalism? The hell is that?. As to the current 'progressive' and 'digital' economic system it works perfectly well with central banking, does it not. >"The United States government is a foreign corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_East_India_Company >Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania once gave a speech endorsing the adoption of the Company's flag by the United States as their national flag. He said to George Washington of Virginia, "While the field of your flag must be new in the details of its design, it need not be entirely new in its elements. There is already in use a flag, I refer to the flag of the East India Company."

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Area 51: 1M to Storm Area 51 in Massive Naruto Run to See Them Aliens
by grarpamp 20 Jul '19

20 Jul '19

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/11/us/alien-march-facebook-event-trnd/index… https://www.facebook.com/events/448435052621047/ Storm Area 51, They Can't Stop All of Us Friday, 20 September 2019 from 03:00-06:00 PDT Area 51 Amargosa Valley, Nevada 20908 662K going · 614K interested We will all meet up at the Area 51 Alien Center tourist attraction and coordinate our entry. If we naruto run, we can move faster than their bullets. Lets see them aliens.

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Cryptocurrency: Brings Down GovBankCorp
by grarpamp 20 Jul '19

20 Jul '19

Writes: https://twitter.com/officialmcafee "India announces it plans to ban all crypto. Banning mosquitos after a rain in the summer would stand a better chance of being enforceable." "The U.S. cannot even ban weed - after 70 years of trying. How can a country ban the use of privacy coins like Monero or Apollo, when used on truly distributed exchanges. Banning the invisible, used by the anonymous. Wake up world! Crypto is the mythical Pandora's box come to life" "Crypto has now threatened our government so much that it has become a "National Security" issue. The "security" threatened is not that of our nation's citizens, but that of the corrupt government that has enslaved us." "Bitcoin's price dipped after Trump's negative tweet. Proof that few in the investment community understand even the the basic principles of Crypto. The existing power structure is powerless to influence Crypto - which is a mathematical system operating outside of power itself." https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_mj5wIWsAAvgws.jpg <-- This is your cash https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_mjsNyVAAIE7zQ.jpg <-- This is your gold, and any true cypherpunk cryptoanarchist cryptocurrency Thread: > Facebook issuing their own, piece-of-shit credit card is just more growth of the american terrorist cancer. >> Jim Bell's comment: I believed in 1995 that digital cash would bring down all governments, only now Mnuchin is catching up? > facebook's credit card would technically be 'digital', but it's not even cash. It would be just more digital accounting fraud on top of the fraud known as the americunt dollar. > as to 'digital cash'* bringing down governments, that's just fantasy. A digital "cash / currency"... those terms are containers into which people dump various descriptive words and capabilities in order to try to define them, with no set of words yet universally and exclusively accepted by all as a definition... that has a set of capabilities that empowers its users to route around the artificial unnatural and immoral nature of governments, will in fact result in their downfall. The fact that the masses of people under every taxation regime on the planet routinely engage in "cash" commodity crypto side channels around such immoral and disliked theft and murder, and that GovBankCorp are now on a 100% full bore charge to stamp out cash forever, is proof that as soon as cryptocurrency reaches whatever magical combination of capabilities, such routing will happen. > *cryptocurrencies are not cash AT ALL since they require massive infrastructure The infrastructure need only do some list of useful things such as keep accurate ledger, run timely and relatively inexpensive tx processing, and cost more in distributed collective defense than any attacker can muster or gain from offense. "Massive" (which you failed to define) is not necessarily a requirement. Long term, costs will drop as cryptocurrency knocks out its primary threats... Gov Bank Corp. > all depend on ONE unique ledger Most cryptocurrencies that utilize a single unique ledger do so in a redundantly distributed fashion, etc. Unlike N different central "cash" or Gold ledgers where N is the number of accounts you have at such GovCorpBank which can then steal, freeze, zero you out... go bankrupt, inflate supply, etc, etc. > even govt paper bills are real cash, they are actually > decentralized and anonymous. If those are your exclusive set of words you like to define "cash" by, then that "cash" works for you. However "govt paper" implies government exists, which is most certainly not an ideal situation. And "decentralized", living somewhere between a single point dot and 100% distributed amongst all peers, can have certain risks and mindfulness needed as well. > Gold and other commodities That only works within your range of personal travel. When you start wanting to "transmit" gold, then you have to create transmission systems for physicals and messages, create ledgers, create trust and security systems and etc that can span that distance. So in order to effectively transmit gold, you've essentially created a cryptocurrency system to do so, at which point gold itself can and will likely become moot. The real problem is that you created and allowed the wrong cryptocurrency system ie: GovBankCorp as the first such generation of a transmission system. You now have more or less all of the crypto and tools needed to create a far better transmission system. Most of humanity does not currently desire to moving society back to your quaint local agrarian communes or whatever it is your aggression is advocating for. Cryptocurrency can work via sneakernet and even by hand calculation... it just becomes extremely slow. The minimum general assumption in cryptocurrency is that both electricity and digital communication and computation methods will remain up and generally accessible to everyone. At which point, so long as society and ultimately human DNA maintains the desire for a "forward" progress that includes electricity comms and compute tech, GovBankCorp Fiat will remain below Gold which will remain below Cryptocurrency which becomes top dog and moots all others. Maintain fallbacks in the mix as you wish. But don't be so stupid as to continue to allow GovBankCorp to rule over and keep you in slavery. No one ever said crypto was invulnerable to global thermonuclear war, they just said you'll have MUCH bigger problems than worrying about where your crypto, "cash", or gold is. If you're smart, you'll end government before they can reach for the launch keys. @InsertNameSpace said: Capitalism cannot thrive with a socialist central banking system, ever. The Federal Reserve is crying. The U.S. has been bankrupt since after the civil war. 1871 is when the criminal banking cartels took over. The "United States" is the "District of Columbia" incorporated... "The United States government is a foreign corporation with respect to a State" Volume 20: Corpus Juris Sec. § 1785, Also: NY re: Merriam 36 N.E. 505 1441 S. 0.1973, 14 L. Ed. 287 a "Corporation" with a legislature was established with all the apparatus of a distinct government created (Incorporated) by (Presidential) Legislative Act, February 21, 1871 Forty-first Congress, Session III, Chapter 62, page 419. We have been borrowing money ever since.

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Relatively old video about so called 'quantum entanglement'
by Punk 20 Jul '19

20 Jul '19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFvJOZ51tmc it's kinda interesting because john bell and alain aspect are in it - and john bell hints at the fact that 'quantum explanations' are bullshit.

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Relatively old video about so called 'quantum entanglement'
by Punk 20 Jul '19

20 Jul '19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFvJOZ51tmc it's kinda interesting because john bell and alain aspect are in it - and john bell hints at the fact that 'quantum explanations' are bullshit.

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science wonks: MHC typing immune system olfactory detection in fertile females - [PEACE]
by Zenaan Harkness 20 Jul '19

20 Jul '19

How cool is nature? It's both nature and nurture and science digs 'em both of course, as do fertile age females in the olfactory superpower to detect MHC typing immune system compatibility, in mates/ potential mates. Pretty mind blowing, though perfectly understandable after 3.8 billion years of evolution +/- a billion. “My, what an amazing creation you have there, Grandma!” s/Grandma/Creator/ Zerowedgie with le scientifique low, as in LOW down: Do You Truly Have Free Will? https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-13/do-you-truly-have-free-will

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Alan Turing New Face of 50 Pound Note
by John Young 18 Jul '19

18 Jul '19

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48962557#share-tools

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Microsoft's Krysta Svore says people can learn quantum computing now
by jim bell 16 Jul '19

16 Jul '19

Business Insider: Microsoft's Krysta Svore says people can learn quantum computing now. https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-krysta-svore-quantum-computing-fo…

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Either the government controls every aspect of my life
by Ryan Carboni 16 Jul '19

16 Jul '19

Or they are all complete dipshits. Regardless, it is obviously not legal to reenact what you yourself believes to be illegal or at least immoral. So dipshits, really. Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

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