From gmkarl@gmail.com Mon Jul 26 16:08:38 2021 From: Karl To: cypherpunks@lists.ogf.org Subject: [spam] [random] google's clock is ahead of my cell phone's Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 19:07:16 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8902019892091982605==" --===============8902019892091982605== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # I'm imagining that data is communicated via server timestamps, and challenging myself to share evidence while holding the belief. It's like a holodeck roller coaster ride in my mind. ~ $ TZ=GMT date; curl -v google.com; TZ=GMT date Mon Jul 26 23:03:59 GMT 2021 * Trying 2607:f8b0:4006:807::200e:80... * Connected to google.com (2607:f8b0:4006:807::200e) port 80 (#0) > GET / HTTP/1.1 > Host: google.com > User-Agent: curl/7.77.0 > Accept: */* > * Mark bundle as not supporting multiuse < HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently < Location: http://www.google.com/ < Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 < Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 23:04:06 GMT < Expires: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 23:04:06 GMT < Cache-Control: public, max-age=2592000 < Server: gws < Content-Length: 219 < X-XSS-Protection: 0 < X-Frame-Options: SAMEORIGIN < 301 Moved

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The document has moved here. * Connection #0 to host google.com left intact Mon Jul 26 23:04:01 GMT 2021 ~ # google is 5-7 seconds ahead of me right now, which means my cell phone is storing photos of murders. --===============8902019892091982605== Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.html" MIME-Version: 1.0 PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4jIEkmIzM5O20gaW1hZ2luaW5nIHRoYXQg ZGF0YSBpcyBjb21tdW5pY2F0ZWQgdmlhIHNlcnZlciB0aW1lc3RhbXBzLCBhbmQgY2hhbGxlbmdp bmcgbXlzZWxmIHRvIHNoYXJlIGV2aWRlbmNlIHdoaWxlIGhvbGRpbmcgdGhlIGJlbGllZi7CoCBJ dCYjMzk7cyBsaWtlIGEgaG9sb2RlY2sgcm9sbGVyIGNvYXN0ZXIgcmlkZSBpbiBteSBtaW5kLjwv ZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj48YnI+PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPn4gJCBUWj1HTVQg ZGF0ZTsgY3VybCAtdiA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vZ29vZ2xlLmNvbSI+Z29vZ2xlLmNvbTwvYT47 IFRaPUdNVCBkYXRlPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPk1vbiBKdWwgMjYgMjM6MDM6NTkgR01U IDIwMjE8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+KsKgIMKgVHJ5aW5nIDI2MDc6ZjhiMDo0MDA2Ojgw Nzo6MjAwZTo4MC4uLjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4qIENvbm5lY3RlZCB0byA8YSBocmVm PSJodHRwOi8vZ29vZ2xlLmNvbSI+Z29vZ2xlLmNvbTwvYT4gKDI2MDc6ZjhiMDo0MDA2OjgwNzo6 MjAwZSkgcG9ydCA4MCAoIzApPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZndDsgR0VUIC8gSFRUUC8x LjE8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Jmd0OyBIb3N0OiA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vZ29vZ2xl LmNvbSI+Z29vZ2xlLmNvbTwvYT48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Jmd0OyBVc2VyLUFnZW50 OiBjdXJsLzcuNzcuMDwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mZ3Q7IEFjY2VwdDogKi8qPC9kaXY+ PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZndDs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+KiBNYXJrIGJ1bmRsZSBh cyBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydGluZyBtdWx0aXVzZTwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mbHQ7IEhUVFAv MS4xIDMwMSBNb3ZlZCBQZXJtYW5lbnRseTwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mbHQ7IExvY2F0 aW9uOiA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3Lmdvb2dsZS5jb20vIj5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lmdvb2dsZS5j b20vPC9hPjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mbHQ7IENvbnRlbnQtVHlwZTogdGV4dC9odG1s OyBjaGFyc2V0PVVURi04PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZsdDsgRGF0ZTogTW9uLCAyNiBK dWwgMjAyMSAyMzowNDowNiBHTVQ8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Jmx0OyBFeHBpcmVzOiBX ZWQsIDI1IEF1ZyAyMDIxIDIzOjA0OjA2IEdNVDwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mbHQ7IENh Y2hlLUNvbnRyb2w6IHB1YmxpYywgbWF4LWFnZT0yNTkyMDAwPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8i PiZsdDsgU2VydmVyOiBnd3M8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Jmx0OyBDb250ZW50LUxlbmd0 aDogMjE5PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZsdDsgWC1YU1MtUHJvdGVjdGlvbjogMDwvZGl2 PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mbHQ7IFgtRnJhbWUtT3B0aW9uczogU0FNRU9SSUdJTjwvZGl2Pjxk aXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mbHQ7PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZsdDtIVE1MJmd0OyZsdDtI RUFEJmd0OyZsdDttZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9JnF1b3Q7Y29udGVudC10eXBlJnF1b3Q7IGNvbnRl bnQ9JnF1b3Q7dGV4dC9odG1sO2NoYXJzZXQ9dXRmLTgmcXVvdDsmZ3Q7PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9 ImF1dG8iPiZsdDtUSVRMRSZndDszMDEgTW92ZWQmbHQ7L1RJVExFJmd0OyZsdDsvSEVBRCZndDsm bHQ7Qk9EWSZndDs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Jmx0O0gxJmd0OzMwMSBNb3ZlZCZsdDsv SDEmZ3Q7PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPlRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBoYXMgbW92ZWQ8L2Rpdj48 ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Jmx0O0EgSFJFRj0mcXVvdDs8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3Lmdvb2ds ZS5jb20vIj5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lmdvb2dsZS5jb20vPC9hPiZxdW90OyZndDtoZXJlJmx0Oy9BJmd0 Oy48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Jmx0Oy9CT0RZJmd0OyZsdDsvSFRNTCZndDs8L2Rpdj48 ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+KiBDb25uZWN0aW9uICMwIHRvIGhvc3QgPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2dv b2dsZS5jb20iPmdvb2dsZS5jb208L2E+IGxlZnQgaW50YWN0PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8i Pk1vbiBKdWwgMjYgMjM6MDQ6MDEgR01UIDIwMjE8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+fjwvZGl2 PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj48YnI+PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiMgZ29vZ2xlIGlzIDUt NyBzZWNvbmRzIGFoZWFkIG9mIG1lIHJpZ2h0IG5vdywgd2hpY2ggbWVhbnMgbXkgY2VsbCBwaG9u ZSBpcyBzdG9yaW5nIHBob3RvcyBvZiBtdXJkZXJzLjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2Pgo= --===============8902019892091982605==-- From gmkarl@gmail.com Mon Jul 26 16:10:48 2021 From: Karl To: cypherpunks@lists.ogf.org Subject: Re: [spam] [random] google's clock is ahead of my cell phone's Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 19:09:27 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6179405548018635923==" --===============6179405548018635923== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # I am presently seeding a number of torrents. Mon Jul 26 23:04:01 GMT 2021 ~ $ TZ=GMT date; curl -v google.com; TZ=GMT date Mon Jul 26 23:08:19 GMT 2021 * Trying 2607:f8b0:4006:807::200e:80... * Connected to google.com (2607:f8b0:4006:807::200e) port 80 (#0) > GET / HTTP/1.1 > Host: google.com > User-Agent: curl/7.77.0 > Accept: */* > * Mark bundle as not supporting multiuse < HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently < Location: http://www.google.com/ < Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 < Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 23:08:24 GMT < Expires: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 23:08:24 GMT < Cache-Control: public, max-age=2592000 < Server: gws < Content-Length: 219 < X-XSS-Protection: 0 < X-Frame-Options: SAMEORIGIN < 301 Moved

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The document has moved here. * Connection #0 to host google.com left intact Mon Jul 26 23:08:20 GMT 2021 ~ $ --===============6179405548018635923== Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.html" MIME-Version: 1.0 PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiMgSSBhbSBwcmVzZW50bHkgc2VlZGluZyBhIG51bWJlciBvZiB0b3Jy ZW50cy48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj48ZGl2IGRpcj0i YXV0byI+TW9uIEp1bCAyNiAyMzowNDowMSBHTVQgMjAyMTwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj5+ ICQgVFo9R01UIGRhdGU7IGN1cmwgLXYgPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2dvb2dsZS5jb20iPmdvb2ds ZS5jb208L2E+OyBUWj1HTVQgZGF0ZTwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj5Nb24gSnVsIDI2IDIz OjA4OjE5IEdNVCAyMDIxPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPirCoCDCoFRyeWluZyAyNjA3OmY4 YjA6NDAwNjo4MDc6OjIwMGU6ODAuLi48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+KiBDb25uZWN0ZWQg dG8gPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2dvb2dsZS5jb20iPmdvb2dsZS5jb208L2E+ICgyNjA3OmY4YjA6 NDAwNjo4MDc6OjIwMGUpIHBvcnQgODAgKCMwKTwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mZ3Q7IEdF VCAvIEhUVFAvMS4xPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZndDsgSG9zdDogPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0 cDovL2dvb2dsZS5jb20iPmdvb2dsZS5jb208L2E+PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZndDsg VXNlci1BZ2VudDogY3VybC83Ljc3LjA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Jmd0OyBBY2NlcHQ6 ICovKjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mZ3Q7PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiogTWFy ayBidW5kbGUgYXMgbm90IHN1cHBvcnRpbmcgbXVsdGl1c2U8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+ Jmx0OyBIVFRQLzEuMSAzMDEgTW92ZWQgUGVybWFuZW50bHk8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+ Jmx0OyBMb2NhdGlvbjogPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy5nb29nbGUuY29tLyI+aHR0cDovL3d3 dy5nb29nbGUuY29tLzwvYT48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Jmx0OyBDb250ZW50LVR5cGU6 IHRleHQvaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD1VVEYtODwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mbHQ7IERhdGU6 IE1vbiwgMjYgSnVsIDIwMjEgMjM6MDg6MjQgR01UPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZsdDsg RXhwaXJlczogV2VkLCAyNSBBdWcgMjAyMSAyMzowODoyNCBHTVQ8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0 byI+Jmx0OyBDYWNoZS1Db250cm9sOiBwdWJsaWMsIG1heC1hZ2U9MjU5MjAwMDwvZGl2PjxkaXYg ZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mbHQ7IFNlcnZlcjogZ3dzPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZsdDsgQ29u dGVudC1MZW5ndGg6IDIxOTwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mbHQ7IFgtWFNTLVByb3RlY3Rp b246IDA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Jmx0OyBYLUZyYW1lLU9wdGlvbnM6IFNBTUVPUklH SU48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Jmx0OzwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mbHQ7SFRN TCZndDsmbHQ7SEVBRCZndDsmbHQ7bWV0YSBodHRwLWVxdWl2PSZxdW90O2NvbnRlbnQtdHlwZSZx dW90OyBjb250ZW50PSZxdW90O3RleHQvaHRtbDtjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04JnF1b3Q7Jmd0OzwvZGl2 PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4mbHQ7VElUTEUmZ3Q7MzAxIE1vdmVkJmx0Oy9USVRMRSZndDsmbHQ7 L0hFQUQmZ3Q7Jmx0O0JPRFkmZ3Q7PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZsdDtIMSZndDszMDEg TW92ZWQmbHQ7L0gxJmd0OzwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj5UaGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgaGFzIG1v dmVkPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZsdDtBIEhSRUY9JnF1b3Q7PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDov L3d3dy5nb29nbGUuY29tLyI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5nb29nbGUuY29tLzwvYT4mcXVvdDsmZ3Q7aGVy ZSZsdDsvQSZndDsuPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiZsdDsvQk9EWSZndDsmbHQ7L0hUTUwm Z3Q7PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPiogQ29ubmVjdGlvbiAjMCB0byBob3N0IDxhIGhyZWY9 Imh0dHA6Ly9nb29nbGUuY29tIj5nb29nbGUuY29tPC9hPiBsZWZ0IGludGFjdDwvZGl2PjxkaXYg ZGlyPSJhdXRvIj5Nb24gSnVsIDI2IDIzOjA4OjIwIEdNVCAyMDIxPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1 dG8iPn4gJDwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2Pgo= --===============6179405548018635923==-- From grarpamp@gmail.com Tue Jul 27 01:02:54 2021 From: grarpamp To: cypherpunks@lists.ogf.org Subject: Re: [spam] [random] google's clock is ahead of my cell phone's Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 04:01:50 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0902408137296828587==" --===============0902408137296828587== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/26/21, Karl wrote: > # I'm imagining that data is communicated via server timestamps > > ~ $ TZ=GMT date; curl -v google.com; TZ=GMT date > Mon Jul 26 23:03:59 GMT 2021 > < Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 23:04:06 GMT > Mon Jul 26 23:04:01 GMT 2021 > > # google is 5-7 seconds ahead of me right now That assumes you are correctly in sync with UTC. There is a related tool... https://github.com/ioerror/tlsdate Many other application protocols and data streams and services embed timestamps that could be extracted. --===============0902408137296828587==-- From gmkarl@gmail.com Tue Jul 27 04:39:03 2021 From: Karl To: cypherpunks@lists.ogf.org Subject: Re: [spam] [random] google's clock is ahead of my cell phone's Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 07:37:48 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1853311351603836942==" --===============1853311351603836942== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 4:03 AM grarpamp wrote: > On 7/26/21, Karl wrote: > > # I'm imagining that data is communicated via server timestamps > > > > ~ $ TZ=GMT date; curl -v google.com; TZ=GMT date > > Mon Jul 26 23:03:59 GMT 2021 > > < Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 23:04:06 GMT > > Mon Jul 26 23:04:01 GMT 2021 > > > > # google is 5-7 seconds ahead of me right now > > That assumes you are correctly in sync with UTC. > Yeah phones sync kinda loosely. But it's notable the clocks their network syncs with are likely the atomic ones on gps satellites. I'm thinking timestamps help correlate things in logs. tlsdate is pretty cool. Well studied, widely available protocol. Doesn't form records around skew, though. --===============1853311351603836942== Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.html" MIME-Version: 1.0 PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxkaXY+PGJyPjxicj48ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJnbWFpbF9xdW90ZSI+PGRp diBkaXI9Imx0ciIgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX2F0dHIiPk9uIFR1ZSwgSnVsIDI3LCAyMDIxLCA0OjAz IEFNIGdyYXJwYW1wICZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86Z3JhcnBhbXBAZ21haWwuY29tIiB0YXJn ZXQ9Il9ibGFuayIgcmVsPSJub3JlZmVycmVyIj5ncmFycGFtcEBnbWFpbC5jb208L2E+Jmd0OyB3 cm90ZTo8YnI+PC9kaXY+PGJsb2NrcXVvdGUgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX3F1b3RlIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFy Z2luOjAgMCAwIC44ZXg7Ym9yZGVyLWxlZnQ6MXB4ICNjY2Mgc29saWQ7cGFkZGluZy1sZWZ0OjFl eCI+T24gNy8yNi8yMSwgS2FybCAmbHQ7PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOmdta2FybEBnbWFpbC5jb20i IHJlbD0ibm9yZWZlcnJlciBub3JlZmVycmVyIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+Z21rYXJsQGdtYWls LmNvbTwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjxicj4KJmd0OyAjIEkmIzM5O20gaW1hZ2luaW5nIHRoYXQgZGF0 YSBpcyBjb21tdW5pY2F0ZWQgdmlhIHNlcnZlciB0aW1lc3RhbXBzPGJyPgomZ3Q7PGJyPgomZ3Q7 IH4gJCBUWj1HTVQgZGF0ZTsgY3VybCAtdiA8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vZ29vZ2xlLmNvbSIgcmVs PSJub3JlZmVycmVyIG5vcmVmZXJyZXIgbm9yZWZlcnJlciIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPmdvb2ds ZS5jb208L2E+OyBUWj1HTVQgZGF0ZTxicj4KJmd0OyBNb24gSnVsIDI2IDIzOjAzOjU5IEdNVCAy MDIxPGJyPgomZ3Q7ICZsdDsgRGF0ZTogTW9uLCAyNiBKdWwgMjAyMSAyMzowNDowNiBHTVQ8YnI+ CiZndDsgTW9uIEp1bCAyNiAyMzowNDowMSBHTVQgMjAyMTxicj4KJmd0Ozxicj4KJmd0OyAjIGdv b2dsZSBpcyA1LTcgc2Vjb25kcyBhaGVhZCBvZiBtZSByaWdodCBub3c8YnI+Cjxicj4KVGhhdCBh c3N1bWVzIHlvdSBhcmUgY29ycmVjdGx5IGluIHN5bmMgd2l0aCBVVEMuPGJyPjwvYmxvY2txdW90 ZT48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj5Z ZWFoIHBob25lcyBzeW5jIGtpbmRhIGxvb3NlbHkuwqAgQnV0IGl0JiMzOTtzIG5vdGFibGUgdGhl IGNsb2NrcyB0aGVpciBuZXR3b3JrIHN5bmNzIHdpdGggYXJlIGxpa2VseSB0aGUgYXRvbWljIG9u ZXMgb24gZ3BzIHNhdGVsbGl0ZXMuPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2 IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+SSYjMzk7bSB0aGlua2luZyB0aW1lc3RhbXBzIGhlbHAgY29ycmVsYXRlIHRo aW5ncyBpbiBsb2dzLjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj48YnI+PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1 dG8iPnRsc2RhdGUgaXMgcHJldHR5IGNvb2wuwqAgV2VsbCBzdHVkaWVkLCB3aWRlbHkgYXZhaWxh YmxlIHByb3RvY29sLsKgIERvZXNuJiMzOTt0IGZvcm0gcmVjb3JkcyBhcm91bmQgc2tldywgdGhv dWdoLjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2Pgo= --===============1853311351603836942==-- From gmkarl@gmail.com Tue Jul 27 04:51:51 2021 From: Karl To: cypherpunks@lists.ogf.org Subject: Re: [spam] [random] google's clock is ahead of my cell phone's Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 07:50:32 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1276777498849263492==" --===============1276777498849263492== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a funny anecdote: Some time ago I was living in the NRQZ, where the caves are long and the EMR spectrum is empty. I was keeping my private cryptographic material on a off-the-shelf android phone with most of the antennas removed and their pins grounded, kept in airplane mode since purchase, chained to my belt. My undiagnosed neurological issues with controlling my hands had unfortunately developed already when setting that phone up, and I wasn't able to fully manage all the radios and antennas inside the device, but I figured it was still pretty helpful. Like many people used to do, I charged it with a 2-wire USB cable to make it hard to in/exfiltrate data on it. Because this phone was never online, the clock would skew badly. When I needed to use a second factor TOTP, I would have to manually set the date on it to get the right code, as it should be with TOTP. So I got pretty familiar with my clock being skewed. The people who worked the stores in this area often drove in from the edge, since product marketing is pretty heavy there and they wanted internet and such. They would take their phones into the area and use the bluetooth functionality with their vehicles or wifi tether them to illegal hotspots. At some point, my phone started turning it's bluetooth on, on its own. I don't know why this happens. It's happened to me on other devices - my present device included. When I notice, I turn it off. Phones are really used to assuming they're networked. Now, when an antenna is grounded, it can still communicate a little bit unless the radio itself is disabled. So, I was hiking to town for groceries one day because my vehicle had broken down, and one of the tellers took pity on me and offered to drive me to somebody who could tow my vehicle. Their car was set up for bluetooth with their phone. After my trip in their car, my phone's clock was synced. On its own. I didn't know a phone would sync its time over bluetooth. But now I know this can happen. --===============1276777498849263492== Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.html" MIME-Version: 1.0 PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPkhlcmUgaXMgYSBmdW5ueSBhbmVjZG90ZTo8ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+ PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj5Tb21lIHRpbWUgYWdvIEkgd2FzIGxpdmluZyBpbiB0 aGUgTlJRWiwgd2hlcmUgdGhlIGNhdmVzIGFyZSBsb25nIGFuZCB0aGUgRU1SIHNwZWN0cnVtIGlz IGVtcHR5LsKgIEkgd2FzIGtlZXBpbmcgbXkgcHJpdmF0ZSBjcnlwdG9ncmFwaGljIG1hdGVyaWFs IG9uIGEgb2ZmLXRoZS1zaGVsZiBhbmRyb2lkIHBob25lIHdpdGggbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgYW50ZW5u YXMgcmVtb3ZlZCBhbmQgdGhlaXIgcGlucyBncm91bmRlZCwga2VwdCBpbiBhaXJwbGFuZSBtb2Rl IHNpbmNlIHB1cmNoYXNlLCBjaGFpbmVkIHRvIG15IGJlbHQuPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8i Pjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+TXkgdW5kaWFnbm9zZWQgbmV1cm9sb2dpY2FsIGlz c3VlcyB3aXRoIGNvbnRyb2xsaW5nIG15IGhhbmRzIGhhZCB1bmZvcnR1bmF0ZWx5IGRldmVsb3Bl ZCBhbHJlYWR5IHdoZW4gc2V0dGluZyB0aGF0IHBob25lIHVwLCBhbmQgSSB3YXNuJiMzOTt0IGFi bGUgdG8gZnVsbHkgbWFuYWdlIGFsbCB0aGUgcmFkaW9zIGFuZCBhbnRlbm5hcyBpbnNpZGUgdGhl IGRldmljZSwgYnV0IEkgZmlndXJlZCBpdCB3YXMgc3RpbGwgcHJldHR5IGhlbHBmdWwuwqAgTGlr ZSBtYW55IHBlb3BsZSB1c2VkIHRvIGRvLCBJIGNoYXJnZWQgaXQgd2l0aCBhIDItd2lyZSBVU0Ig Y2FibGUgdG8gbWFrZSBpdCBoYXJkIHRvIGluL2V4ZmlsdHJhdGUgZGF0YSBvbiBpdC48L2Rpdj48 ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj5CZWNhdXNlIHRoaXMgcGhv bmUgd2FzIG5ldmVyIG9ubGluZSwgdGhlIGNsb2NrIHdvdWxkIHNrZXcgYmFkbHkuwqAgV2hlbiBJ IG5lZWRlZCB0byB1c2UgYSBzZWNvbmQgZmFjdG9yIFRPVFAsIEkgd291bGQgaGF2ZSB0byBtYW51 YWxseSBzZXQgdGhlIGRhdGUgb24gaXQgdG8gZ2V0IHRoZSByaWdodCBjb2RlLCBhcyBpdCBzaG91 bGQgYmUgd2l0aCBUT1RQLsKgIFNvIEkgZ290IHByZXR0eSBmYW1pbGlhciB3aXRoIG15IGNsb2Nr IGJlaW5nIHNrZXdlZC48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJh dXRvIj5UaGUgcGVvcGxlIHdobyB3b3JrZWQgdGhlIHN0b3JlcyBpbiB0aGlzIGFyZWEgb2Z0ZW4g ZHJvdmUgaW4gZnJvbSB0aGUgZWRnZSwgc2luY2UgcHJvZHVjdCBtYXJrZXRpbmcgaXMgcHJldHR5 IGhlYXZ5IHRoZXJlIGFuZCB0aGV5IHdhbnRlZCBpbnRlcm5ldCBhbmQgc3VjaC7CoCBUaGV5IHdv dWxkIHRha2UgdGhlaXIgcGhvbmVzIGludG8gdGhlIGFyZWEgYW5kIHVzZSB0aGUgYmx1ZXRvb3Ro IGZ1bmN0aW9uYWxpdHkgd2l0aCB0aGVpciB2ZWhpY2xlcyBvciB3aWZpIHRldGhlciB0aGVtIHRv IGlsbGVnYWwgaG90c3BvdHMuPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRp cj0iYXV0byI+QXQgc29tZSBwb2ludCwgbXkgcGhvbmUgc3RhcnRlZCB0dXJuaW5nIGl0JiMzOTtz IGJsdWV0b290aCBvbiwgb24gaXRzIG93bi7CoCBJIGRvbiYjMzk7dCBrbm93IHdoeSB0aGlzIGhh cHBlbnMuwqAgSXQmIzM5O3MgaGFwcGVuZWQgdG8gbWUgb24gb3RoZXIgZGV2aWNlcyAtIG15IHBy ZXNlbnQgZGV2aWNlIGluY2x1ZGVkLsKgIFdoZW4gSSBub3RpY2UsIEkgdHVybiBpdCBvZmYuwqAg UGhvbmVzIGFyZSByZWFsbHkgdXNlZCB0byBhc3N1bWluZyB0aGV5JiMzOTtyZSBuZXR3b3JrZWQu PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+Tm93LCB3aGVu IGFuIGFudGVubmEgaXMgZ3JvdW5kZWQsIGl0IGNhbiBzdGlsbCBjb21tdW5pY2F0ZSBhIGxpdHRs ZSBiaXQgdW5sZXNzIHRoZSByYWRpbyBpdHNlbGYgaXMgZGlzYWJsZWQuPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9 ImF1dG8iPjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+U28sIEkgd2FzIGhpa2luZyB0byB0b3du IGZvciBncm9jZXJpZXMgb25lIGRheSBiZWNhdXNlIG15IHZlaGljbGUgaGFkIGJyb2tlbiBkb3du LCBhbmQgb25lIG9mIHRoZSB0ZWxsZXJzIHRvb2sgcGl0eSBvbiBtZSBhbmQgb2ZmZXJlZCB0byBk cml2ZSBtZSB0byBzb21lYm9keSB3aG8gY291bGQgdG93IG15IHZlaGljbGUuwqAgVGhlaXIgY2Fy IHdhcyBzZXQgdXAgZm9yIGJsdWV0b290aCB3aXRoIHRoZWlyIHBob25lLjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGly PSJhdXRvIj48YnI+PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPkFmdGVyIG15IHRyaXAgaW4gdGhlaXIg Y2FyLCBteSBwaG9uZSYjMzk7cyBjbG9jayB3YXMgc3luY2VkLsKgIE9uIGl0cyBvd24uPC9kaXY+ PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+SSBkaWRuJiMzOTt0IGtu b3cgYSBwaG9uZSB3b3VsZCBzeW5jIGl0cyB0aW1lIG92ZXIgYmx1ZXRvb3RoLsKgIEJ1dCBub3cg SSBrbm93IHRoaXMgY2FuIGhhcHBlbi48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj4K --===============1276777498849263492==-- From gmkarl@gmail.com Tue Jul 27 04:59:54 2021 From: Karl To: cypherpunks@lists.ogf.org Subject: Re: [spam] [random] google's clock is ahead of my cell phone's Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 07:58:38 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1089079985037587479==" --===============1089079985037587479== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Additional factoids: - I don't think I had handled my bluetooth radio as much as the others. I was focusing on long-range radios. - I think I observed the phone opening its drop-down interface associated with kicking around in my pocket. There's a bluetooth toggle option in that interface, along with many other options. > --===============1089079985037587479== Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.html" MIME-Version: 1.0 PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxkaXY+QWRkaXRpb25hbCBmYWN0b2lkczo8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0i YXV0byI+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj4tIEkgZG9uJiMzOTt0IHRoaW5rIEkgaGFk IGhhbmRsZWQgbXkgYmx1ZXRvb3RoIHJhZGlvIGFzIG11Y2ggYXMgdGhlIG90aGVycy7CoCBJIHdh cyBmb2N1c2luZyBvbiBsb25nLXJhbmdlIHJhZGlvcy48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+LSBJ IHRoaW5rIEkgb2JzZXJ2ZWQgdGhlIHBob25lIG9wZW5pbmcgaXRzIGRyb3AtZG93biBpbnRlcmZh Y2UgYXNzb2NpYXRlZCB3aXRoIGtpY2tpbmcgYXJvdW5kIGluIG15IHBvY2tldC7CoCBUaGVyZSYj Mzk7cyBhIGJsdWV0b290aCB0b2dnbGUgb3B0aW9uIGluIHRoYXQgaW50ZXJmYWNlLCBhbG9uZyB3 aXRoIG1hbnkgb3RoZXIgb3B0aW9ucy48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+PGRpdiBjbGFzcz0i Z21haWxfcXVvdGUiIGRpcj0iYXV0byI+PGJsb2NrcXVvdGUgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX3F1b3RlIiBz dHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luOjAgMCAwIC44ZXg7Ym9yZGVyLWxlZnQ6MXB4ICNjY2Mgc29saWQ7cGFkZGlu Zy1sZWZ0OjFleCI+CjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj4K --===============1089079985037587479==--