September 2016 - cypherpunks@lists.ogf.org

new list ?
by Zenaan Harkness 08 Sep '16

08 Sep '16

Folks who want their cypher unsullied have plenty of many and varied lists, but should have their full pure cyphered punk (whatever that means to them) without the "stress" of non cypher which appears evidently stressful. As was said last year, my personal intent is to respect the intenet of the founders of this forum/list. Lists are neither complicated, difficult nor with singificant overhead, to run. And it appears evident there is a smallish but loud number of emotionally pained individuals who want to not be adulterated by calls to action, discussion of politics, defense of fundamental and essential principles to any community we can imagine, or anything outside their personal expectations for what the cypherpunks list "should be". Far be it for us to cause any undue stress to the poor darlings. ----------------- So, once again, there is a fair whack of offlist, and in the past on list, support for an similar but alternative email mailing list. Of course there has also been both on and offlist calls to not split the list. The possible 'new list' would be "just like cypherpunks, only a little less elitist about what can be discussed", including and especially tech, cypher, politico, anarcho, actiono, liberto and any other old o, topics :) In fact, this alternative list is not elitist at all - if you wanna talk it, bloody well talk it, the list shall forever be uncesored, just expect no mercy on the "constructive" or "vehement" feedback side :) If "you can't HANDLE the response!" then stick to cyphussy-whipped. One could even consider this new list an "anarchist" list. The only (should be self evident) proviso is that your speech be lawful in the jurisdiction of the listserv operator, for (what ought be self evidently) obvious reasons. ----------------- And now, the final call! :: Are there any loud "no, please don't split the list" calls which can make a convincing argument as to why a few cotton wool footed, excessively schooled, overly emotional Westerners with delicate communication sensibilities and inadequate personal technical ability, ought not have their little CIA dominated pow wow room under the current name, and a new anarchist list under a slightly distinguished and eminently distinguishable alternative name? As a little reminder, alternative alternative lists, providing abundent opportunity for free form but self moderated or actually censored crypto techno discussion are, for example: nettime metzdowd securityfocus many universities djb lists eff tor-talk, tor-project etc many newsgroups and a whole internet more, just a search away Finally, before those tenderfoots jump in with "yes please", perhaps read this again: http://cryptome.org/2013/09/cpunks-crypto.htm including its many choice quotes including: - "the political has won out over the technical". - this one reminds of the total overthrow and take over of Tor Inc that's just gone down in front of us all, along with the public, professional and very personal destruction of Jacob Applebaum: "What has been shown in the discussion is that the technical wizards are not nearly as competent at the messy political" - "petty squabblling and exchange of slurs has replaced rational discourse. Thus the convo has become politicized with as much stupidity and ignorance as sharp thinking and mutual respect" Do bring your best, and best regards to all, Zenaan

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Cloudflare kills.
by Razer 07 Sep '16

07 Sep '16

COINTELPRO all over again: Darren Seals, Ferguson protest organizer found shot & killed in charred remains of his car. Ferguson organizers were being cyberstalked by cloudflare. Read all about it: https://twitter.com/AuntieImperial/status/773532954794405888

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The Man From The CIA
by Ceeyeaye 07 Sep '16

07 Sep '16

The Man From The CIA Yesterday upon the stair, I met a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today, I think he's from the CIA. He's put a tap upon my phone, and listens when I'm not at home. He hears the things I do not say, Records my thoughts to earn his pay. I worry when he's not around, He might be hiding underground. Or somewhere else, I cannot say, I don't know where he is today! I fear he'll push me down the stair, Or stab my back or grab my hair. Oh, shadowy man from CIA, Won't you please just go away? No, wait, what's this? I think I hear The sound of footsteps in my ear. Oh, drat! He's here again today To follow me upon my way. He'll read these words I've left for you, And then you'll be his target too. But I'll escape - I know the way, I'll set my clock to yesterday! He'll fail to find me anywhere, Because, you see, I won't be there! He'll look for me upon my way, And disappointed be, but hey! You'll still be here, I fear it's true, He'll concentrate on watching you! He'll tap your phone this very day, And hear the words you do not say! So if you meet upon the stair A shadow man who isn't there, Beware, my friend, he's here to stay, For he's the Man from CIA.

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Social Engineering 99: Because thinking is hard ... Cognitive bias cheat sheet
by Razer 07 Sep '16

07 Sep '16

https://betterhumans.coach.me/cognitive-bias-cheat-sheet-55a472476b18

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Excellent article about Cypherpunks.
by jim bell 07 Sep '16

07 Sep '16

http://passcode.csmonitor.com/cypherpunk A small part of this article:"Soon, an even nastier suggestion appeared on the list: a public hit list for politicians, set up as a portal for contract killing. It also came from a former Intel engineer, Jim Bell. He was one of the most radical minds on the cypherpunks list (Bell and May met only once, in the early 1980s). In August 1992, Bell had read an article by David Chaum in Scientific American titled “Achieving Electronic Privacy.” Chaum, then the head of a cryptographic research group at Amsterdam University, painted a dark picture: making a phone call, using a credit card, subscribing to a magazine, paying taxes, all these bits and pieces of information could be collected and combined into “a single dossier on your life — not only your medical and financial history but also what you buy, where you travel and whom you communicate with.”[end of small quote in much-larger article.] Important note: Contrary to the claim above, as far as I know I've never met Tim May. We worked for Intel during some of the same times, but I was in Aloha Oregon, and I assume Tim May was in Santa Clara, California. (Unless Tim May at some point came to Oregon, I probably didn't meet him. I DID exhibit at the October 1983 West Coast Computer Faire, in San Francisco, well over a year after I left Intel.) Nor would Tim May have heard about me, while at Intel: I was a lowly Product Engineer for one of the first two self-refreshing DRAMs, mine was the 2186 8K by 8 "pseudostatic RAM". I had HEARD of Tim May: By the time I started at Intel, July 1980, May was already famous for having discovered that alpha-particles (nuclei of Helium-4 atoms) were the cause of soft-errors in DRAMs (Dynamic Random Access Memories) of that era. Jim Bell

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Philosophokiddies
by Glaukommatos 07 Sep '16

07 Sep '16

> Stephen D. Williams: > cutting edge political systems The Republic. > [that] was my point. But I didn't say anything about [that] Da fuq? > random thinking? Nothing is random. Randomness is, in itself, a predictable pattern. > Those who are serious and thoughtful usually have something better to say than... >> Fucker. Juan's messages stand out as the most serious and thoughtful, and they come fruit with delightfully crafted labels of insight. Though here, I see no difference between philosophokiddies and fucker.

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nailing the converted forestry track!
by Zenaan Harkness 07 Sep '16

07 Sep '16

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 07:39:35AM -0700, Razer wrote: > You HAVE TO CREATE, from SCRATCH, a society of people who do that and > adhere to others who self-regulate... because the tide's been going > the other way for hundreds and hundreds of years now. Perhaps https://freestateproject.org/ might be a good place to start, but: The mistake some have made in the past is to hit the highlands, up a converted forst track to avoid the happy go yippee hippies who turned into hip go yippee yuppies in their BMWs and their Labradoodles, but fundamentally, to do so as a small group of perhaps 1, perhaps 5 or 10. Although the FreeStateProject may be too big for some, and the desired result of the project too far away in the future, it is perhaps the best state to start in for smaller project: In Australia, we have national/federal, then state (so far similar to USA), then "local council" - perhaps this corresponds to "county"? I'm not sure sorry. Anyway, at the local county/ local council / "parish" level, enough folks targetting a specific area (say 25000 acres of rocky highlands), could create their own county, their own council to run it, and write whatever dang bylaws you choose! For example: - no sealed roads - no blocks/ land titles smaller than 100 acres - compulsory rifle/ gun training for all citizens over 14yrs old This is the roughest of rough drafts. Be creative. Gather with those you could possibly unite with, get to know folks who are inspired by such concepts as you imagine and communicate with others. Make it happen. Live your dream! Raise issues privately or publicly, learn how to assess "cold water bucket" types, "energy sink" types, "much promise but never any action" types and avoid them all - boot their arses to kindom come, and have a party afterwards! Take no prisoners in this regard - you cannot afford to put your life energy, your inspiration, your love and care, into deadweights. Know that you face setbacks, fears, all human frailties. Know that the universe will come to support, synchronicity may lift you in times of need, but always do your bit, exercise your own due diligence and walk your own talk. The world desperately needs those who can hold the long thought, sit calmly in the confidence of your end goal, with the strength of character and faith to weather the storms and setbacks. It is not someone else, neither the government (specially not the government :), nor your not-so-humble author, not "them" and not any one else at all, that can hold, nurture, and live, your dream! It is you, and you alone! Live you dream, fellow souls, live your dream! https://freestateproject.org/

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Let's Talk About Juan... ;-)
by Cypher Piggie 07 Sep '16

07 Sep '16

Because Juan is obviously *very**important* [from his perspective], and that which is important really needs to be talked about. So let's talk about Juan... ;-)

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[jya@pipeline.com: Re: offlist - Re: individual responsibility - was Re: Nationalism vs Globalism]
by Zenaan Harkness 07 Sep '16

07 Sep '16

Some of the back story, Alex and Juan agree with John Young that, especially list related discussion, should be on list. So, conspiracy theories, self indulgent tripe, and all the rest for your gossiping indulgence.. Zenaan ----- Forwarded message from John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> ----- Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2016 09:29:24 -0400 From: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> To: Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> Subject: Re: offlist - Re: individual responsibility - was Re: Nationalism vs Globalism This discussion would be more effective on the list, not off-list, silvousplait. As you may have read recently, offlist is just another troll tool. At 08:57 AM 9/5/2016, you wrote: > On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 02:24:23PM +0300, ÐÐ»ÐµÐºÑÐ°Ð½Ð´Ñ wrote: > > 2016-09-05 8:31 GMT+03:00 juan <juan.g71(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > I think that's their plan. So creating a new list and letting > > > them do what they want with the cpunk list means we'd be > > > following *their* plan. I don't plan to do that =P > > > > > > > YES! 100 times YES! > > But... > > the problem i wrote about on other letter still remains, my friends: > > (they ([personal gripes]...) *suck so much energy from us* once a > > month with their yellings about "offtopic"/"did you take LSD" shit. > > > > I'm tired. This is not a way to do things.) > > Alex, I ask you to take a peek in your memory at a few key moments in > the last year as I hope the little transformations that are happening on > the list and in the world might set your mind at ease: > > > - Rayzer has 'come out' - he now expresses bold confidence > (notwithstanding he's a bit misguided in his personal mutual anger > club with Juan, where he gets repeatedly defeated and sadly misses > that fact. Funny but sad. > > > - In my early days on the list, I was personally targetted very > effectively by someone with some significant training - I have no > doubt they were/are an agent of some three letter agency - I ended up > saying not much, and not replying to him, for a week at least; > > I was impressed because he/they had successfully picked an emotional > weak spot within me, and successfully used that to try to "hit" me > publicly. > > Once I processed it, I realised they were an agent provocateur in > their intention, as expressed through their words, and they were well > trained in that. > > But doing so, they exposed themselves (at the very least to me). > > > - This year 50 CIA agents PUBLICLY petitioned the POTUS to declare a > no-fly zone over Syria, actively attack Syria's president Assad, and > thereby effectively start World War 3 against Russia! > > The fact they believed they had to do this publicly, and DID do this > publicly, tells us that their systems of control and influence are > breaking down, and that to have any hope of further "success" with > their evil ways, they have to act by exposing their evil for the > world to see! > > This is amazing, and an EXCELLENT development! > > > - Finally you must have seen my recent one-two round with either a head > honcho type, or someone pretending to be - in that "a turning point? > Brzezinski..." thread starting 2016-09-01, with "Lodewijk" (very > unlikely his real name), then SDW pipes in with "Nice Zenaan, good > responses to much of what you were responding to ... he must have > been a troll, blah blah ..." > > I believe I know who "Lodewijk" is, and SDW evidently works for him, > since he tried to protect him with "he's just a troll" - yet the only > reason I responded in such detail, was because of what I felt, what > my instinct told me - "this guy is high up", he's real, he's not > trolling, he's being honest. > > Knowing "Lodewijk" is 'high up' in authority, and reading what he > wrote, brought me to tears as I wrote that reply, because I know too > well how they (the CIA guys and those similar to them) think and act > - their questions were their actual point of view. > > And so, to me, it was no surprise the SDW gave such a glowing report > - I was speaking directly to them, in their own language, using their > own terms and acknowledging (whilst disagreeing with) their own > belief systems; so of course they would appreciate my analysis. > > My only hope is that they might find within themselves a higher > intention than merely power and control over other nations. > > And of course Juan immediately named them (accurately) as "crazy > fucks" :) > > > So, some folks are exposing themselves. Some like Mirimir are possibly > making personal growth steps (very small is still above zero). > > > This is all a journey and "the list" (wherever it is and who ever > "controls" it) is secondary - it merely provides a platform for the > personal (and society) journeys that we make between ourselves. > > > Finally - Juan, you know this, and you've probably taken it on board > already, but we "Westerners" or "wealthy Western schooled" folks (men in > particular at this moment in history) are: > - predominantly insecure, > - spoiled with gadgets, food and comfort, > - attached to the public image we think others have of ourselves, > - often laden with societal guilt complex bullshit, > - and generally unable to resist responding to personal attacks > (yes yes Alex, I'm guilty as charged - I'll get there one day) > > Point: these guys who attach to excuses for non-action, even for > limiting discussion to their preferred topics, these are the kind of > guys that predominate in the West. (I'm talking about the Rayzers and > Mirimir types, not the SDW CIA types who have truly sold their souls.) > > > I.e., this is the soil we have available to us, to till. > > Not shifting ground on all the important things is not only a great > start, but essential. > > But in conversation with such mentally weak and emotionally insecure > people, men in particular, perhaps say to "idiots" (after having utterly > demolished their arguments as you do so well) things like "repetition > does not strengthen your position", and other such "softer" responses to > blatant stupidity, and drop it there. This might help to lower the noise > level, since emotionally insecure Western males are incapable of > lowering their own noise levels without external support. So that's our > job :) > > > Changes are happening, and I hold tentative hope for the future. > > > Kind regards always, thanks all for listening, > Zen ----- End forwarded message -----

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Politically Correct and Hypocrisy
by Cecilia Tanaka 07 Sep '16

07 Sep '16

Sometimes, I have very strong suicidal tendencies, because this hypocrite world, where everybody pretend being "politically correct" is _not_ the place where I want to live... Aff... :(( <http://atom-morgan.github.io/in-defense-of-douglas-crockford> I can mention the promiscuity in IT events or inside the Tor Project only because I am a poor Latin woman, a Nipo-Brazilian, an Oriental minority and female. If I was a white man, I would be publicly lynched and expulsed of all IT events. Wow! I want LGBTQ people and other minories feeling protected in IT events and hacker/makerspaces, but it's becoming ridiculous. Now, creating blogs and posts to destroy a reputation of a person instead using transparency and honesty, a mere talk, is the usual pattern? :-/ I love the freedom of expression and miss this right all the days, even and even more! All the words, even heavy bad words, can be used, because they only exist for being used! When do everybody become so touchy and sensitive? Hope the world becomes more rational and less hypocrite or, someday, I will be considered pedophile when simply breastfeeding my babies. You know, little children sucking breasts... Very indecent this! :P Aff... I know I will receive a lot of kicks for this message, but we already talked about how the moral judgements are being more unfair nowadays. It's just another chapter, with another IT white man. Kisses and love for everybody, even knowing that 2/3 of you will think it's a sin or not politically correct! Muuuaaaah!!! :* <3 Ceci -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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