I just started reading the alt.whistleblowing newsgroup. It would seem that it has already digressed into a flamefest. Could the person who created it please post a set of guidelines for the group! Also, people are using their REAL names! Appearantly, they don't know anything about the anon remailers....Could someone post a notice about that, too? Same thing goes WRT pgp. We helped create this group, we ought to help keep it worth reading. ;^) +-----------------------+-----------------------------+---------+ | J. Michael Diehl ;-) | I thought I was wrong once. | PGP KEY | | mdiehl@triton.unm.edu | But, I was mistaken. |available| | mike.diehl@fido.org | | Ask Me! | | (505) 299-2282 +-----------------------------+---------+ | | +------"I'm just looking for the opportunity to be -------------+ | Politically Incorrect!" <Me> | +-----If codes are outlawed, only criminals wil have codes.-----+ +----Is Big Brother in your phone? If you don't know, ask me---+
mdiehl@triton.unm.edu (J. Michael Diehl) writes:
I just started reading the alt.whistleblowing newsgroup. It would seem that
That is strange, I'm not getting anything here. Maybe there is a
propagation problem.
What is the recommended action in this case? Posting to alt.config,
or resending the newgroup message?
--
Miron Cuperman
According to Miron Cuperman:
mdiehl@triton.unm.edu (J. Michael Diehl) writes:
I just started reading the alt.whistleblowing newsgroup. It would seem that
That is strange, I'm not getting anything here. Maybe there is a propagation problem.
Well, it took a week to make it here.....
What is the recommended action in this case? Posting to alt.config, or resending the newgroup message?
Couldn't tell you, except, perhapse to be patient? +-----------------------+-----------------------------+---------+ | J. Michael Diehl ;-) | I thought I was wrong once. | PGP KEY | | mdiehl@triton.unm.edu | But, I was mistaken. |available| | mike.diehl@fido.org | | Ask Me! | | (505) 299-2282 +-----------------------------+---------+ | | +------"I'm just looking for the opportunity to be -------------+ | Politically Incorrect!" <Me> | +-----If codes are outlawed, only criminals wil have codes.-----+ +----Is Big Brother in your phone? If you don't know, ask me---+
J. Michael Diehl
I just started reading the alt.whistleblowing newsgroup. It would seem that it has already digressed into a flamefest. Could the person who created it please post a set of guidelines for the group! Also, people are using their REAL names! Appearantly, they don't know anything about the anon remailers....Could someone post a notice about that, too? Same thing goes WRT pgp. We helped create this group, we ought to help keep it worth reading. ;^)
Mr. Diehl: If you had taken the time to read any significant portion of alt.whistleblowing traffic, I would imagine you would have stumbled on messages where I presented an outline/preliminary FAQ and an anonymous posting described precisely how to use Julf's remailer to send traffic (which were posted under a week ago). I take great offense at your hasty, flippant denigration of it so far as a `flamefest'. While of course I'm not really associated with alt.whistleblowers at all in the grand cyberspatial scheme of things, I feel a smidgeon of personal responsibility for the group. Are you paying attention? Have you seen my promises there and on the cypherpunk list to create the FAQ? So far, IMHO, the traffic has mostly been very high-caliber and even spectacular. A lady named Karen Lofstrom reported how her boss at a Hawaii university misused ~$100,000 in funds and work of public employees on his private company -- from NSA grant money -- starting a long thread of sympathetic responses (she alluded to this earlier on sci.crypt I believe but expanded it beautifully in alt.whistleblower). We have other interesting revelations so far too. There are messages pointing out a private `whistleblowing support organization' and how to contact them. Your message, upon rereading it, makes me extremely exasperated. It reconfirms my suspicion that a large part of traffic on this list and tactics in the Cypherpunk arsenal are to just give lip service to interesting ideas but leave the messy and laborious detail work to others. Despite plenty of great fireworks on this list, I have seen no tangible contributions from others on the whistleblowing project other than Miron Cuperman's gracious effort to create the group (despite grandiose reassurances to the contrary), and Julf's immediate support of it, two individuals who are already highly active and motivated outside of their cypherpunk involvement. Furthermore, I've encountered many extremely frustrating obstructions here. I've seen great accomplishments by individuals who call themselves `cypherpunks' but none by well-orchestrated collections of them. This is not to discourage positive effort in the future by anyone on this list on the whistleblower project or anything else. It is to suggest that the Cypherpunks are so intensely individualistic as to preclude group projects and large-scale cooperation, and that this is a serious obstacle to enacting meaningful, critical change on the agenda. (Go ahead, flame me and ask what I've done for everyone lately --- I won't respond. That is not the spirit of my words.) The statement that makes my blood boil violently is the following:
We helped create this group, we ought to help keep it worth reading. ;^)
How is it that `we' created this group? All I've seen here is voluminous verbiage (yes, mine included). I appreciate the call to arms and cooperation, but I've tried it here before with impoverished, negligible, and excruciatingly painful results. How long ago did you join the list? I've already posted ways for cypherpunks to help out on the whistleblowing newsgroup. The simplest way is to just go there and post something useful or assimilate existing traffic into something useful. Mr. Diehl, the following is not a personal request. On behalf of the hundreds of people who read the cypherpunks list, I humbly ask you (and remind all other cypherpunks) to put the tiniest greater effort into your postings to the mailing list that, like all others, take the time of everyone to sort in their mailbox, and make every effort to direct messages through personal email where appropriate. I've asked you before politely in private email to no response, or apparently, effect. It is only in the rarest of occasions I will ever put forth such a request, and an even more unusual case to go public with it. I appreciated your volunteering to do the email survey but turning around with the final summary and admitting yourself that you're `too lazy to tabulate results' I find highly annoying (what is the point?), and I think does a disservice to the people who took the time to respond (including myself). Following is some traffic from the group. Some favorite quotes:
From Greg Welch, who's been extremely helpful in contributing to the FAQ referring to that private whistleblower agency:
BTW, you just made me realize that I need to contact them to see if they can read (or are already reading) this news group somehow. Boy, I wish this group was around when I was in a similar situation.
Also, from Karen Lofstrom, the NSA grant whistleblower:
If we can get a number of other whistleblowers posting here, or people from organizations that support whistleblowers, perhaps we can create some group wisdom about how to blow the whistle _effectively_. I certainly could have used some informed advice when I started.
===cut=here===
From
yuma!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!news.H
awaii.Edu!uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!lofstrom Tue, 8 Jun 1993 03:55:08 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.whistleblowing
Path:
yuma!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!news.H
awaii.Edu!uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!lofstrom
From: lofstrom@uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Karen Lofstrom)
Subject: NSA Grant Misused
Message-ID:
According to L. Detweiler:
Mr. Diehl: If you had taken the time to read any significant portion of alt.whistleblowing traffic, I would imagine you would have stumbled on messages where I presented an outline/preliminary FAQ and an anonymous posting described precisely how to use Julf's remailer to send traffic
I read the entire newsgroup! All 27 articles. In these articles, I counted exactly ONE from you, and it had nothing to do with what you describe above.
(which were posted under a week ago). I take great offense at your hasty, flippant denigration of it so far as a `flamefest'. While of
Then, IMHO, you are easily offended. But, lets look at what I was refering to: Several messages in alt.whistleblowing.... Drasticly condensed to save BW.
participants (3)
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J. Michael Diehl
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L. Detweiler
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miron@extropia.wimsey.com