Mike Godwin says: [Lots of stuff that add up to "Gee, what fifth amendment"] I wonder when the last remaining clause of the Bill of Rights will be declared to be meaningless tripe. FDR destroyed the 9th and 10th amendments with his threats of court packing. PC is destroying the 1st amendment. The fourth and fifth amendments are nearly gone thanks to things like the war on drugs. Lots of people have been claiming the second amendment doesn't mean what it says, and the supreme court has refused to take a case since the Miller case in the 1930s. The court recently held that you can execute a person even if there is evidence that he's innocent without giving the evidence a hearing provided he's technically exhausted his right to appeal. It seems like its only a matter of time before other than stopping the government from quartering soldiers in your home except in time of war, there will be nothing more the courts will prevent. Fun, ain't it? Perry
Perry Metzger writes: ...
technically exhausted his right to appeal. It seems like its only a matter of time before other than stopping the government from quartering soldiers in your home except in time of war, there will be nothing more the courts will prevent.
Fun, ain't it?
Ah, but this happens all the time! For example, at a recent dinner for Dave Nolan, founder of the Libertarian Party, a middle-aged Santa Cruz couple told us the story of how police/DEA/SWAT/BATF/not sure which "took over" all the houses on their block to wait for a suspected drug dealer to come out of his house. By "take over" I mean the middle-aged couple was awakened by knocks on the door at dawn, told they had 5 minutes to pack a few things, and then told to get out of the house, that the SWAT team was using their house as one of their command posts. Several other houses were as well. Around mid-afternoon, the blissfully-oblivious suspect wandered out into into driveway and was immediately surrounded. Now this may not be "quartering of troops," technically, in that they didn't sleep over, eat the food (so far as I know), etc., but I sure would call it something very similar. And what do you think would happen to me if I answered the door with my Heckler and Koch submachinegun, as I sometimes do (perfectly legal, since it's on my property...so long as I don't "brandish" it)? My guess is the pigs would shoot first. With the Clinton Clipper rolling along, with the New World Order looking like a liberal left police state, it's time more than ever for the long-discussed "Cypherpunks Shooting Club." Time for us to fight back. "Kill the code grabbers." -Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.
In message <9306172054.AA09055@snark.shearson.com>, "Perry E. Metzger" writes:
technically exhausted his right to appeal. It seems like its only a matter of time before other than stopping the government from quartering soldiers in your home except in time of war, there will be nothing more the courts will prevent.
I read somewhere on the net a *very* interesting interpretation of the 3rd amendment, which cypherpunks might find interesting. It was claimed that in colonial times, the British authorities quartered troops in people's homes as a form of surveillance. E.g. Tom Jefferson is suspected of conspiring with friends to communicate privately :-), thus the local British military leader learns of this suspicion and quarters troops in Tom's home. Under this interpretation, it was claimed that the 3rd amendment provides protection from government surveillance. I think it's stretching things a bit, but a very interesting way to look at it. -- | Sameer Parekh-zane@genesis.MCS.COM-PFA related mail to pfa@genesis.MCS.COM | | Apprentice Philosopher, Writer, Physicist, Healer, Programmer, Lover, more | | "Symbiosis is Good" - Me_"Specialization is for Insects" - R. A. Heinlein_/ \_______________________/ \______________________________________________/
Sameer, the roots of the Third Amendment are not in surveillance, but in the English Crown's desire to minimize the costs of maintaining troops abroad. --Mike
In message <9306172054.AA09055@snark.shearson.com>, "Perry E. Metzger" writes:
technically exhausted his right to appeal. It seems like its only a matter of time before other than stopping the government from quartering soldiers in your home except in time of war, there will be nothing more the courts will prevent.
I read somewhere on the net a *very* interesting interpretation of the 3rd amendment, which cypherpunks might find interesting. It was claimed that in colonial times, the British authorities quartered troops in people's homes as a form of surveillance. E.g. Tom Jefferson is suspected of conspiring with friends to communicate privately :-), thus the local British military leader learns of this suspicion and quarters troops in Tom's home. Under this interpretation, it was claimed that the 3rd amendment provides protection from government surveillance.
I think it's stretching things a bit, but a very interesting way to look at it.
-- | Sameer Parekh-zane@genesis.MCS.COM-PFA related mail to pfa@genesis.MCS.COM | | Apprentice Philosopher, Writer, Physicist, Healer, Programmer, Lover, more | | "Symbiosis is Good" - Me_"Specialization is for Insects" - R. A. Heinlein_/ \_______________________/ \______________________________________________/
participants (4)
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Mike Godwin -
Perry E. Metzger -
tcmay＠netcom.com -
zane＠genesis.mcs.com