To: cypherpunks@toad.com T >OK, you got me here. I wasn't thinking of cases where you might want T >to deceive your own bank! T >Tim May One tends to forget that an ATM card is a bearer instrument. Ive always thought it ironic that the first manifestation of the Orwellian technology of electronic payments that was supposed to strip us of our liberties was a *bearer* instrument. There are many circumstances where you might want to have someone other than the account holder use ATM or other Credit or Debit cards. Spouses, children, and employees might be given the card. If you want to make cheap instant overseas transfers you might give a trusted person an ATM card. If you want to make regular anonymous payments to someone you might open an account for that purpose, give them the card, and then just deposit whatever you want to transmit to them. If you've opened an account in a nome de guerre, it might be convenient not to have your image recorded. There are many more circumstances. For me the more significant concern is not getting my picture taken but the possibility that card use might be limited to the account holder only. I like the bearer instrument aspect of ATMs. Of course, as long as some banks on the net don't use pictures or other personal measurments as a replacement for pins, one can always use these institutions. Duncan Frissell As for the PC parts of Tim's post: How to handle fanatic evironmentalists/animal rightists/commies: "What's the matter; don't you believe in cultural diversity? Look, these days *I* have to put up with <anal-intercoursing> <oral-genital copulators> whether I like them or not. <Use Old English words instead of the Norman French above.> If *I* have to put up with <anal-intercoursing> <oral-genital copulators> whether I want to or not, then you have to put up with perverts like me." --- WinQwk 2.0b#0