- cypherpunks-legacy@lists.ogf.org

eurocrypt '93
by phr＠america.Telebit.COM 30 Apr '93

30 Apr '93

Is anyone thinking of going? It's in Norway, in late May. Pining for the fjords... Paul

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clip.txt on NIST ftp
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 30 Apr '93

30 Apr '93

csrc.ncsl.nist.gov has some new uploads in /pub/nistnews, including Krammer(NIST)'s testimony to Markey, and clip.txt, a more recent Clipper description. It's short enough I'm attaching it below; the interesting part in Section 5 is that it says the wiretap block has 80-bit session key crypted with unit key, 25-bit serial number!, and 23-bit "authentication pattern" making a total of 128 narc bits. It also gets transmitted "at least once" to the receiver. Also, chip prices include "programmed and unprogrammed" - I wonder if real people will be able to buy them unprogrammed? Bill Stewart ------ clip here ----- CLIPPER CHIP TECHNOLOGY CLIPPER is an NSA developed, hardware oriented, cryptographic device that implements a symmetric encryption/decryption algorithm and a law enforcement satisfying key escrow system. While the escrow management system design is not completely designed, the cryptographic algorithm (SKIPJACK) is completely specified (and classified SECRET). The cryptographic algorithm (called CA in this paper) has the following characteristics: 1. Symmetric, 80-bit key encryption/decryption algorithm; 2. Similar in function to DES (i.e., basically a 64-bit code book transformation that can be used in the same four modes of operation as specified for DES in FIPS 81); 3. 32 rounds of processing per single encrypt/decrypt operation; 4. Design started by NSA in 1985; evaluation completed in 1990. The CLIPPER CHIP is just one implementation of the CA. The CLIPPER CHIP designed for the AT&T commercial secure voice products has the following characteristics: 1. Functions specified by NSA; logic designed by MYKOTRONX; chip fabricated by VLSI, Inc.: manufactured chip programmed (made unique) by MYKOTRONX to security equipment manufacturers willing to follow proper security procedures for handling and storage of the programmed chip; equipment sold to customers; 2. Resistant to reverse engineering against a very sophisticated, well funded adversary; 3. 15-20 MB/S encryption/decryption constant throughout once cryptographic synchronization is established with distant CLIPPER Chip; 4. The chip programming equipment writes (one time) the following information into a special memory (called VROM or VIA-Link) on the chip: a. (unique) serial number b. (unique) unit key c. family key d. specialized control software 5. Upon generation (or entry) of a session key in the chip, the chip performs the following actions: a. Encrypts the 80-bit session key under the unit key producing an 80-bit intermediate result; b. Concatenates the 80-bit result with the 25-bit serial number and a 23-bit authentication pattern (total of 128 bits); c. Enciphers this 128 bits with family key to produce a 128-bit cipher block chain called the Law Enforcement Field (LEF); d. Transmits the LEF at least once to the intended receiving CLIPPER chip; e. The two communicating CLIPPER chips use this field together with a random IV to establish Cryptographic Synchronization. 6. Once synchronized, the CLIPPER chips use the session key to encrypt/decrypt data in both directions; 7. The chips can be programmed to not enter secure mode if the LEF field has been tampered with (e.g., modified, superencrypted, replaced); 8. CLIPPER chips will be available from a second source in the future; 9. CLIPPER chips will be modified and upgraded in the future; 10. CLIPPER chips presently cost $16.00 (unprogrammed) and $26.00 (programmed). 4/30/93

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Re: PGP on soda.berkeley.edu
by John (FuzzFace/Fast-Eddie) McMahon 30 Apr '93

30 Apr '93

> What founding father said "If we all don't hang together we will surely hang > seperately" Ben Franklin, I believe. John McMahon

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Re: npr report
by karn＠qualcomm.com 30 Apr '93

30 Apr '93

> This is a *wonderful* analogy. Imagine if one could not buy a set of > locks for their house w/o buying the government lock-box to go beside > the front door. It's an even better analogy (for me) because of the experience I had a year ago with a house I was renting. The owner had put it up for sale, so a lockbox was installed on the garage door. One day I came home and noticed that the box was open, and the key inside was missing. Gave me a real warm and fuzzy feeling. One of the really nice things about now owning a house (vs renting) is that I can change the locks whenever I please and I don't have to give a copy to *anybody*... Phil

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Re: PGP on soda.berkeley.edu
by lefty＠apple.com 30 Apr '93

30 Apr '93

>What founding father said "If we all don't hang together we will surely hang >seperately" Benjamin Franklin. -- Lefty (lefty(a)apple.com) C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.

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I don't take it personally...
by tcmay＠netcom.com 30 Apr '93

30 Apr '93

Just to let you folks know, I don't take some of the comments I've been seeing here (and in e-mail) personally. That is, I fully understand that emotions run high around these topics, especially about PGP, the Clipper Chip, and patents on software. This list is for discussion, even heated discussion. We're not here to just complain about things we all despise, like the Clipper chip...for that you can read sci.crypt. I've posted my thoughts and suggestions in this spirit. I'm not in a policy-making position (how many of us are?), so some of the stronger comments about how I'm reorienting the Cypherpunks list seem, well, inappropriate. That others have said much the same thing says this is a legitimate issue to discuss on this list. By the way, I responded at length to Matthew J Miszewski's posting because that's the one I saw first. The equally well-written critiques of my points by Lance Dettweiler and Hal Finney did not arrive at my site until sometime after 2 a.m. this morning, when I last checked...though they were written and posted half a day earlier than Matt's posting. Odd delays we're having. I won't answer their point-by-point critiques, as I think my follow-up to Matt and the various other posts by Eric, Pat Farrell, Stanton M., and others have gotten the issues aired. Just to repeat, I'm not in the thrall of RSA or anyone else. I just think the issues are much larger. I'm not saying we shouldn't use PGP, nor am I suggesting Jim Bidzos should serve arrest warrants at our Cypherpunks meetings (I got a kick out of that really "over the top" charge...I took no offense1). I don't set policy for you folks. Nobody does. I'm just one more voice. Discussion won't hurt this list--if it can, then we're really in trouble. -Tim May -- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, smashing of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: in a state of flux! Waco Massacre + Big Brother Wiretap Chip = A Nazi Regime

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npr report
by jet＠nas.nasa.gov 30 Apr '93

30 Apr '93

from the NPR report: > "The mechanism is very much like what the real estate agents do with > houses. Right, they take you to show you a house and they don't have a > key to that house in their pockets. But they get to the house, and > there's a lock box hanging on the front door. And they have a master key > in their pockets, and they open the lock box, and take out the key to the > door, and open the front door, and go in and show you the house." This is a *wonderful* analogy. Imagine if one could not buy a set of locks for their house w/o buying the government lock-box to go beside the front door.

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PGP vs. RSADSI--what conflict?
by fnerd＠smds.com 30 Apr '93

30 Apr '93

Cypherpholks-- Neither abandoning PGP nor antagonizing RSADSI seem necessary to me. This letter makes a 3/4 page summary of that belief after which I mention some interesting side issues. Eric Hughes' understanding of the situation confirms my intuitions-- RSADSI pretty much has to either act the way it's acting or else just roll over. and They seem agreeable to a technically good PGP/RSAREF connection. but That's work. On the middle point, in particular I don't think they'll insist we use DES or a slow engine. For people who don't get why those restriction seem to be there but aren't, I suggest rereading Eric's article. Although I have strong feelings about the patent issue, and although it affects the privacy issue, I definitely put the privacy issue first. Given that it seems we can separate the two issues, I don't see why we shouldn't. Although I agree with Tim that being non-confrontative with RSADSI is smart, I don't see PGP and RSADSI as quite so hard to reconcile as he seems to: > If the government ever outlaws strong crypto, you can be sure I'll be > using outlaw crypto. The difference with the current situation is > that crypto per se has not yet come under regulation.) And PGP per se is not outlaw. Only the current version and lack of license. Let's conceptually separate PGP, Phil's RSA/MD5 engine (PGRE?), and using/ distributing PGRE in the USA. Only the third is a problem with RSADSI. > ...bootleg > crypto (which is what PGP will remain in this country unless and until the > courts overturn the patents or RSA suddenly decides to cave in)... Pshaw. Until it's worked out. No "sudden caving in" is needed. Tim, you were the one who reported that Jim Bidzos was sounding agreeable. > Furthermore, neither Phil nor any other members of the development team are > likely to ever make any money with this ^^^^ PGRE Phil could finally solicit shareware fees. Now the side issues: There could conceivably be an issue in the future for people working with RSAREF--who have SEEN THE CODE--and then wanting to develop other crypto stuff later. People have attempted to avoid this legal hassle in the past by setting up a "clean room" where only specs and interfaces are known... RSAREF is copyrighted stuff, right?, which puts you in a slightly different legal position when you have it/distribute it. Assuming PGP gets a license to be shareware, I see this being less of a problem than the current situation. But even if PGP gets some kind of license, would individuals still have to sign agreements with RSADSI? I feel more serious about personal agreements than copyrights or patents. Will it be the standard RSAREF individual license? Does it require you to *act as if* they had rights some of us care about them not having? (Rights to the specific code don't bother me too much.) > (isn't e-mail great?...Stanton posts it, and Jim Bidzos, the > Pres. of RSA responds...no lawyers were needed, no lengthy delays.). At the CFP conference that Tim missed ~{;o), Cliff Stoll was remarking that eventually all sorts of nasty things happen related to the net--except lawsuits. We guessed that the availability of the quick, public response might have a lot to do with that. Here we have a threat; can anyone think of an example of an email-related suit that was carried through? -phnerd, er, fnerd quote me --fnerd(a)smds.com (FutureNerd Steve Witham)

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Re: PGP on soda.berkeley.edu
by geoffw＠nexsys.net 30 Apr '93

30 Apr '93

> > It follows, doesn't it, that Jim Bidzos would be forced to apply similar > legal pressure to the Cypherpunks leadership to get them to remove PGP from > their site, a site which may be one of the leaders worldwide in distributing > PGP. > > Now we see Tim suggesting (in the spirit of "pancritical rationalism"? I'm > not so sure...) that we move away from PGP, and Eric offering arguments > showing why Bidzos has to do what he is doing. > > Is there a connection? Are Tim and Eric under pressure from Bidzos to get > PGP off their site? I don't know, but they would certainly be likely > targets for Bidzos' efforts, and so it is understandable that they may be > feeling personal discomfort. But I'd like to hear more about the > relationship with Bidzos. > > Hal > I think you are being a little paranoid. I clearly see the points that Eric and Tim are making. RSA is not going to "roll over" for us. If they did, it could mean the end of their company. Jim out of detante, might not be sending us (the Regents of UC to be exact) a letter because of the potential ramafications (both legal, and publicity wise) It would not be a good move for RSA or for cypherpunks, but if this issue heats up, he may be forced into this stance, which is one I'm convinced by meeting the man, that he personally would not like to take, but WOULD take if it came down to us or the companies patents being made null and void from failure to enforce them. I think he is passing over us for the time being, unless media attention causes him to do otherwise, remember he would sent "the letter" to the regents of UC Berkeley they are the one's who own soda, not the cypherpunks. I think we have to decide whether we are promoting PGP or an individuals right "to affordable secure cryptography" I for one will continue to use PGP until something better comes along. I'd be willing to give RSA $50 - $100 for the right to use the software, in this case BECAUSE THE ISSUE OF PRIVACY IS MORE IMPORTANT TO TO ME THAN THE ISSUES OF WHETHER SOFTWARE IS PATENTABLE. Now this does not mean that I don't believe in free software but if we don't stop the stuff that the feds are doing right now, the other issues won't make any difference. What founding father said "If we all don't hang together we will surely hang seperately" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NEXUS SYSTEMS/CYBERTRIBE-5 : Voice:(415)965-2384 Fax: (415)327-6416 Editor/Instigator/Catalyst : Geoff White <geoffw(a)nexsys.net> Production Crew : Universal Movement Trinity <umt(a)nexsys.net> "They might stop the party, but they can't stop the future" --PGP Public key available upon request-- AT&T:Phones with Big Brother Inside, Just say "NO" to the Clipper wiretap chip! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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CLIPPER: Remember Big Brother!
by Matthew J Miszewski 30 Apr '93

30 Apr '93

Cypherpunks, I have taken contention with Tim's suggestions and was glad to see the comprehensive response. And the following critiques. But I fear that AT&T and the NSA may be lovin' our discontent with each other. I still disagree with Tim on a few contentions and will post them later. But I now understand more clearly his position and far sightedness. While I did my part to start this dissent, I now hope that we can reconcentrate on the current emergency. CLIPPER! Im not saying we should quash dissent, but just cool the flames and remember our current situation. There are many facets of patent law which we may not be able to solve right now. [Eric, I am working on your research request, thanx!]. Please don't let a provacative post by a forward looking thinking derail *both* of our ultimate goals. There is a time and a place for this debate. However, I feel now we must attack the _real_ enemy. So, please, step back and remember that if we fall divided, NO ONE will voice opposition to the WIRETAP CHIP, and we can all set our calandars back to 1984. Respectfully Dissenting, Matt mjmiski(a)macc.wisc.edu

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