Meeting of APPS-RG at GGF13, Seoul, Korea, March 15, 2005, 11:00-12:30 Notes taken by: Shantenu Jha, Thilo Kielmann Agenda: * 0:00 Welcome, opening * 0:05 Status update o new charter approved o document GFD.39, "Workshop on Applications and Programming Tools" has been published o other documents in the pipeline * 0:20 Report from SAGA-RG: progress on simple Grid APIs * 0:30 Open microphone round: "Current issues of grid application developing and deployment?" * 1:15 Planning of future activities (e.g. workshops) o GGF14 (with Earth Observation community???) o GGF15 ??? * 1:30 Adjourn Thilo Kielmann opens the session GGF IPR policy is pointed out and sign-up sheet is circulated Status update: new charter has been approved, group name has been adjusted to "application developers and users research group" This raises the questionamong the audience: - "What is an Application?" Do we need a tighter definition? Kind of consensus in the audience: - Application: Uses the Grid to get other things done. Document writing: GGF12 workshop report now published as GFD39. We urgently need to initiate the other Workshop Reports Will start with GGF13 Report from SAGA-RG: progress on simple Grid APIs Andre Merzky gives a short presentation on the progress made within SAGA-RG Open microphone round: "Current issues of grid application developing and deployment?" This is the so-called "Water Cooler Session" where people freely speak up and tell what they are mostly concerend with (like at a company water cooler) The following statements try to catch what has been said. They are personal statements, subject to inaccuracies of note taking. Tomasz Haupt: not all users are the same, has diverse needs need infrastructure that is stable have an interface that hides the changing stuff i.e., similar to SAGA Pascal Kleijer: quick implementation is critical If SAGA can provide the interface then use as a black-box will help users don't want to change their code therefore need non-mutating wrappers (i.e. clean wrapper) Grid Added value: seamless use of remote resources Tom Goodale: "Currently don't find the grid useful at all" lack of stability and consistency main problems parallel environments: a stable one + a development (like production and development) Basic s/w and system adminstration paradigms not followed Production Quality S/W Required. Couple of first time users: (names unknown) government & business users in business important to have stable environment Commonality b/w DRMAA and SAGA? relationshp b/w such different API's? common look and feel NII users: interactivity & easier usage KISTI user: how long will we have to wait for services like SAGA? T.Goodale: 6-12 months. Pascal K.: industry needs quick solutions and are proceeding to have "solutions without standards" A.Merzky: "solutions w/o standards" isn't Grid Computing GGF Steering Group member: Need to strike a balance b/w rapid development and deployment and standardization 2 "speeds" levels : - Speed of deployment - speed of integration of code & Usage low level integration is most susceptible to change as a user, fault tolerance is ususal hence Open Science Grid build a few simple services which are Robust and build others on top of it. Suggestion: Demos are useful Planning of future APPS-RG activities: Production Grid Management: APPS-RG is seen (by some) as the flagship of community building APPS-RG has been approached for a "community panel" track for GGF14 as part of GGF's reorganization, user communities shall be strengthened track at GGF14 will use existing groups and their results question from the audience: APPS-RG's umbrella function? (currently not addressed, for near future) possible future workshop topics: - Grid-Rel maybe a group to interact with TK: prod grid testing, usability (seems to be a 'hot topic' as mentioned in the waer cooler session) will approach PGM-RG to discuss a possible joint workshop meeting adjourned as the agenda had been handled completely